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Came dieback on young Tea/Noisette bands

Posted by JoshTx 8a (My Page) on
Fri, Apr 25, 14 at 15:54

Heya folks,

I've been struggling with a few roses lately, and had more than one kick the bucket. Specifically Tea/Noisette type roses. The bands start dying from the top of a cane, and then it slowly creeps down the cane until all of the leaves wilt, drop, and the plant is a bundle of sticks. I haven't the slightest idea why this has happening, and they are being amply watered and in good soil. So far I've lost:

Jeanne D'Arc (5 gallon)
Milkmaid
Lamarque
Mons Tillier
Souv. De Mme Leonnie de Viennot

And Souv. D'Elise Vardon and Louis Phillipe (1 gallon) are on their way out. Considering they weathered the winter just fine, this is baffling to me. Any thoughts? I must be missing something. I just had a 1 gallon of Mrs. B R Cant go toe up, while the one next to her which is smaller, is just fine.

Thanks!

Josh


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Came dieback on young Tea/Noisette bands

Me too.

I suspect freeze damage. After the worst weather, they looked okay so I thought they were safe.

After the weather warmed up, though, several did the same gradual die-off from the tips of the canes down.

Lost a pretty big Rosette Delizy that was in the ground. Young plant, but mature enough I was surprised it was KILLED.

Youngsters in 2 gallon pots:
Orangeade
Moonsprite
Roundelay
Halloween
Chateau de Clos Vougeot
Mme. Butterfly

I know the last 2 are particularly wimpy as own-root plants & these came as tiny things--should have been in a greenhouse, probably.

But the others looked good, were well foliaged, etc. (whaaaaaa! :(

Another surprise was losing some nice new basal canes from mature plants--Archduke Charles, Ducher, Mrs. Dudley Cross, a number of other teas & Chinas

Don't know for sure, but I'm gonna guess the extreme weather since it affected new soft canes on the mature plants of the most tender classes & the youngest most vulnerable babies in the HTs & floribundas.


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RE: Came dieback on young Tea/Noisette bands

Josh and Bluegirl, I think ya'll (when I have an opportunity, I just like to throw around my former, handy means of addressing multiples) are in drought down there aren't you? TX can be rough. Super harsh, relentless bouts of arctic quality winter but ongoing drought conditions are rougher than average. Yeesh!

Josh, argh! Why does the phrase "But wait! There's more!" come to mind? I'm not down in Dallas at the moment, but I'd guess Bluegirl's diagnosis is a good one given that the season is a weird spring following weirder winter. Cane dieback can, of course signal all kinds of nasty disease things, but if any of those are lurking, and I'm sceptical that they are, I'd say they're only secondary issues. I tend to disinfect my tools, cut back to healthy wood and all that sort of thing when dealing with dieback, just to be safest. Dispose of the cuttings in your city yard debris can/bag, not your compost pile. I think your plants will buck up as the season progresses. At least the weather isn't pelting you with the usual spring hail. We're (oddly) getting your share here in PDX.

Bluegirl, I'm so sorry about your rose losses/damage! What a crazy meteorological year for all of us! I mostly lost marginally hardy plants like calla lilies (rotted in the ground) and a ceanothus (turned black and croaked). Sigh.

Carol


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RE: Came dieback on young Tea/Noisette bands

Bummer, Carol. But thanks for the suggestions.

Yeah, hard winter for us. Though we didn't get the horrid, repeated, arctic spells the NE & Cent. country did, what we got was tough for our climate. Normally, teas & Chinas ( & sometimes other classes) don't go completely dormant & will often bloom or put out new growth in between fronts. Then, when a cold front comes in---KAPOW!

Drought? yeah, big time. Not just normal seasonal dryness.
We just got maybe 1/4"--with hail :( --last week. Last previous measurable rain was early Dec.--maybe 1/2". It's spotty--I think northern TX has had a few rainy fronts & SE looks like the garden of Eden.

Well, someday, we'll get in some tropical stuff & it will rain adequately again.


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RE: Came dieback on young Tea/Noisette bands

I would say it was definitely the winter that did them in, it just takes a while to be obvious. None of my baby roses were damaged because I covered them, but several 3 gallon (and up) potted roses who weren't covered had severe dieback. I've never had so much, and its still going.

Yikes, don't mention tropical stuff bluegirl, lol. It will likely go through us first!


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RE: Came dieback on young Tea/Noisette bands

Yukyuk, ain't it amazing how one's perspective changes when one moves inland!

(so sorry for the evil wish--I spent > 40 yrs. living within 30 miles of the coast--nail-biting each summer whether we'd get clobbered. Now I'm praying for a tropical storm to come in--just a little, rainy one, please)


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RE: Came dieback on young Tea/Noisette bands

I've lost at least 20 roses this winter, mostly yearling hybrid teas. Many came thru the worst of winter okay, started to leaf out and then we had a freeze and that did them in. It wasn't even too horrid a freeze, but it was enough. I've also had a lot of die back, for the same reason, on teas, noisettes and chinas, but the older roses can be cut back and will survive.


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RE: Came dieback on young Tea/Noisette bands

How awful for you to have these weather-related rose losses and problems. I'm beginning to think the new normal is "never know what to expect". I just read that Brazil is experiencing a huge drought - who would have thought? It's pretty well done in their whole orange crop. I count myself lucky with having nothing worse than lots of mildew although the usual spring flush just isn't happening. In the larger scheme of things it really doesn't seem that important any more. I'm enjoying the roses that are doing well and am hoping for better days for the ones that aren't.

Ingrid


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RE: Came dieback on young Tea/Noisette bands

Isn't the problem that the canes store energy for the first bloom, while the rest of the rose is dying? So many people advise allowing the weaker canes to remain on the rose so that those canes can supply energy to the entire rose. However, if you do that, you are facing having to replace the rose in June or later. If we are late in planting the rose, the roots will not be as well established in the heat, and the rose will get too big for the roots, and become weak the next year. (long and rambling sentence)

That is why I have cut mine way back this spring, and am still having to cut them back.

The drought was unexpected for me in Tulsa. Usually in the winter we are ok, and I do not have to worry about trying to turn on water when the hoses are unfrozen.

I have cut mine, and now the ends are becoming black. In my case, I am waiting for the own roots to kick in, and preparing to plant the new roses. I am looking for pots so that maybe I can start over with some roses, but it is looking bad out there now.

Josh, how is your aphid situation?

I often think of your situation since I have grown children with different passions than mine. In my mind I see your Dad as a person who loves a perfect pristine flawless lawn. Yet his son wants to dig holes in it, and put in roses. When we look around at our world today, we all must be thankful for the love that we have. I really think you are fortunate that he has given you the space he has. Did the ladybugs ever come?

Sammy


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RE: Came dieback on young Tea/Noisette bands

Josh, my experience has been that of Catspa and others. I coddled and protected mine all winter---in and out of garage---in and out of cover. At some point I decided I was going Darwinian about my rose garden and quit all the coddling.
The ones that I coddled did fine but the ones in the ground that had been exposed to the "freeze thaw heatwave polar vortex heatwave" winter have definitely had dieback that I didn't notice until it began to leaf out.
I know there are many folks here happy to share cuttings of whatever you've lost.
I got Milkmaid at the same time you did and she is beautiful---although a once bloomer.
Always happy to share!
Hang in there. It gets better, and like Sammy, I'm curious, did the aphids go?
I've been blasting and smushing daily. It is SO satisfying.
Susan


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RE: Came dieback on young Tea/Noisette bands

I've always had the hardest time with the tea-noisettes; they are very finicky in my climate. The exception is Alister Stella Gray which grows like crazy here. I did buy a Milkmaid from Vintage this past year and it is growing and blooming like crazy. Surprise surprise. If it makes it through my horrid summer and I can ever figure out how to do cuttings, I'd be happy to provide them.


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RE: Came dieback on young Tea/Noisette bands

Are these the same bands that suffered the aphid attack earlier on?
Nik


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