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| Hi, I own three RdV, all planted during the Fall or this past winter, and honestly, I am ready to toss one of them for sure. Reine des "Violettes" in my mind should be violet, not the hot pink I see on both of my own root plants. The one in the backyard will likely remain because that area has hot colors and it is okay there, but for the front area, it is all wrong. Do any of you all have any information that can save this rose? Lynn |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Brilliant sun, high heat and alkalinity all serve to make RdV hot pink instead of the violet tones you wanted. Been there, done it numerous times, both in my own gardens as well as commercially and for clients. The rose is better suited for cooler, damper, foggier, more acidic environments. Not that it won't grow and flower elsewhere, but the 'blue' you want isn't nearly as easy to obtain in our type of environments than it is where the rose is better suited. Keep or toss, but if you want the purple colors, get ready to recreate your environment to get them. What's worked every time I've done it is to plant the bush in soil heavily amended to be acidic, as you might for camellias, azaleas or gardenias; give it filtered morning sun; acidify your water and keep it very well watered. Ultimately, it simply wasn't worth the effort. While you CAN grow "penguins in the desert", it eventually just isn't worth it. Kim |
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| I'm one of those trying to grow penguins in the desert since I recently also acquired this rose. I took the precaution of planting it where it receives mostly morning sun and it does receive lots of water but that's all I've done. Would it help to use fertilizer that's meant for azaleas and camellias? Ingrid |
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- Posted by malcolm_manners 9b C. Fla. (My Page) on Thu, Apr 10, 14 at 17:54
| While I'm sure Kim's observations are exactly correct, I hope you don't presume, then, that it requires cold weather. In our acid soils with humid heat (seldom over 100 F but often into the upper 90s, and at least 90 every day, June through September) and brilliant sun, it stays nicely blue-purple throughout the year. Malcolm |
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- Posted by desertgarden561 9a/SZ11 -NV (My Page) on Thu, Apr 10, 14 at 19:43
| Oh my….RdV, the one that may need to leave, is growing in a large pot. My water is 7.6 pH, so alkaline, and the rose receives morning sun with a little afternoon sun. The temperatures just began to really hit the 80's here over the past couple of days, although we are headed back toward the 70's in a couple of days, and for the most part, it has been in the 60's and 70's since February. The one in the backyard had soil that was heavily amended months prior to it being planted. If these roses are doing this now, I cannot imagine what will happen in several weeks:( |
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- Posted by SouthCountryGuy SE BC 5 (My Page) on Thu, Apr 10, 14 at 21:37
| I just got this rose from pickering and hope to see blooms like pictured....amazing how roses differ garden to garden. What a beaut! desertgarden561!!!!!!! |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Thu, Apr 10, 14 at 22:27
| Mine is pink too. But if I was you, I would wait and see how it is doing after a year. Never know, you might have some others out there that were supposed to be a different color and they are not so they all work after all. The other think you could try is to pot it in azalea soils and see if that helps the cause |
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- Posted by desertgarden561 9/SZ11 -Las Vegas, N (My Page) on Thu, Apr 10, 14 at 23:55
| Kippy, I used a mix of M.G. Potting soil, Orchid or African Violet potting soil (I no longer have any and cannot remember which) and sphaghum peat. I may put RdV back into a 5 gallon pot and let it grow there for a while. Most of my roses are immature as is my garden, so I cannot get instant gratification that way, but had hoped to see the color scheme I envisioned. |
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- Posted by nikthegreek 9b/10a E of Athens (My Page) on Fri, Apr 11, 14 at 0:26
| Ingrid, I have learnt from years of experience plus reading and talking with experts, that once a woody plant is in a soil that for whatever reason is too alkaline for it, there is very little one can do to improve the conditions. Sulphur may help but it can take a lot and a long time and will never change the pH at the depth it is required for a deep rooted plant. Low pH fertilizers (main acidic fertilizers are ammonium sulfate and potassium sulphate) can help, mulching with blond unlimed peat or pine can help, applying iron sulfate may help, but none of these are long term solutions and none of these will have a real deep effect. 20-30cm deep is the most one can expect, good for grasses and some perennials but not for most woody plants. To add insult to injury, the amount of acidic ammendments one has to use does not only depend on the existing pH but on the buffering capacity of one's soil and has to be determined by an expert following a soil test. On top of that, if one's water is alkaline this will need to be fixed which is a big pain unless one has installed appropriate fertigation equipment and is prepared to deal with acids. So, all in all, it is not worth it in my opinion. One can uproot the plant and re-plant it in soil well ammended (sometimes complete replacement may be required) with acidic substrata but even that will slowly go downhill if one is required to irrigate with alkaline water often. So I'm fully with Kim on that. I'm not commenting on the particular rose which I have never grown, I'm just talking in general about cultivating more or less acid loving plants in alkaline soils and dry conditions. |
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| Nik, thank you for that very detailed and helpful explanation. Since I happen to be very fond of lavender pink roses such as Lynn pictures, life as we know it will not end if that's all I ever see on my RdV. The fragrance and shape will still be there, and I'll still have a rose with a beautiful name. Ingrid |
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- Posted by PortlandMysteryRose 8 (My Page) on Fri, Apr 11, 14 at 1:44
| Lynn, everything I'm reading here matches my experience...or rather it matches my opposite experience. Or something like that. Here in PDX, the soil and climate seem to be exactly what are needed to produce those purplish blooms. If you're ever up for a transfer to this area again, Reine might be a good one to grow. Carol |
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- Posted by desertgarden561 9a/SZ11 -NV (My Page) on Fri, Apr 11, 14 at 17:38
| Yesterday evening, I discovered one big thing RdV has going for it, the fragrance is lovely!! My DH actually alerted me to this, as he is always sticking his nose in the roses around the yard and RdV was no exception. That solved it! In a pot and off to the deck or backyard it goes. Carol, we have not ruled out a transfer, it is on the back burner:) Lynn |
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- Posted by PortlandMysteryRose 8 (My Page) on Fri, Apr 11, 14 at 17:47
| Ah, yes. The fragrance. I'm glad you are potting her up. May she behave in her new location. Wow, a DH that stops to smell the roses! Hang on to him. He's a catch. :-) Carol |
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| Rdv also has the sweet peppery scent to the sepals, peduncles and new growth tips when they are very fresh and soft. Kim |
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- Posted by jaspermplants 9 az (My Page) on Fri, Apr 11, 14 at 18:51
| I tried RdV once and it seemed to hate my climate. I have seen it growing here however. But I really don't have any room for it, or I'd probably try it again. |
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- Posted by nikthegreek 9b/10a E of Athens (My Page) on Sat, Apr 12, 14 at 0:00
| Potting it up will make it easy for you to provide the more acidic substrata Kim is recommending. MIxing a bit of vinegar in the water once or twice monthly during the watering season will make sure the soil will remain so for long. Nik |
This post was edited by nikthegreek on Sat, Apr 12, 14 at 0:40
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| Shield the pot to keep it cool. Hotter roots will continue the pink tones; reduce the size and quantity of the flowers and fry them to potpourri faster. Kim |
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- Posted by desertgarden561 9/SZ11 -Las Vegas, N (My Page) on Sat, Apr 12, 14 at 10:42
| Nikthegreek, I am not brave enough to use vinegar on plants unless I would actually be trying to give it a dose to rid my garden of it; I am confident I can do that:) Kim thanks for the information regarding RdV and what to do with it when it becomes hot here. I still have one that is on the front/side of the house near a gate and it is grafted. I am very reluctant regarding moving it and I really do not know how I will like it next to Bishop's Castle if it is hot pink. It has buds on it that are covered with aphids. I really need to get out there with the hose. Lynn |
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| Lynn, I'll be curious to hear how it works with Bishop's Castle. I would think that RdV will always have enough of a bluish cast that it will work with BC. I've found that if a rose has enough foliage the large areas of green help to harmonize slightly different colors. Ingrid |
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- Posted by nikthegreek 9b/10a E of Athens (My Page) on Sat, Apr 12, 14 at 12:33
| Ha ha Lynn! Aspirin can kill you if you take too many... What if I told you that concetrated suphuric and nitric acids are used by farmers in fertigation systems. It's all a matter of dilution. One tbsp of vinegar in the gallon every once in a while will help and will not harm your plants and will help any that appear chlorotic. Lots of people are using vinegar to acidify the water as a matter of routine when watering plants like azaleas and the like. It's no good if one uses it constantly (due to other things vinegar contains rather than the acetic acid in it) but at the rate of once or twice a month it's totally ok. |
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| Here is my RdV. This picture represents the color best, although the image itself is blurry. I really like the color of the flowers, and the leaves are a nice mid green. I'm a very lazy gardener. I don't do soil amendments or tinker with the water. Both here are quite alkaline. RdV is planted in ordinary garden soil. The only thing this rose gets is water straight out of the hose, and infrequent feedings of diluted fish emulsion (not only lazy, I'm frugal too!). If any rose isn't happy with this kind of treatment, it is destined to meet Mr. Shovel.;) Melissa |
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| I'm really sad to hear that RdV is such a disappointment in some places. I must be one of the lucky ones because mine is always that smoky lavender color. The scent is truly amazing and besides all of that it's thornless! My favorite rose to prune, lol! For me I just wish it had better rebloom. |
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- Posted by desertgarden561 9a/SZ11 -NV (My Page) on Sat, Apr 12, 14 at 20:35
| nikthegreek, Thanks for the rate of dilution. There was a poster on this forum " Strawberryhill", who really promoted the use of vinegar and even molasses, but if I recall, it was a specific molasses that was being recommended, and under certain circumstances with specific roses I believe there were issues with the use of vinegar for her too. I am not attached to the one RdV at this point, and would experiment a bit with it, but do not know what kind of vinegar people use (white, apple cider…..)? Ingrid, I hosed the aphids off of RdV this morning and believe the buds will likely be open in a couple of days. Bishop's Castle is in bloom with buds about to open too. I will try to capture an image of the two together and post it. Lynn |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Sat, Apr 12, 14 at 22:14
| I plan on taking better pictures in the morning, but my RdV is on the green Tutor (note the super yellow leaves are the old ones she is just deciding to drop) She is the smaller of the hot pink blooms. The big hot pink is Young Lycidas |
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- Posted by nikthegreek 9b/10a E of Athens (My Page) on Sun, Apr 13, 14 at 1:55
| Lynn, any vinegar will do as long as it is less than 10% acetic acid, just to be on the safe side. I have used wine vinegar just because it is the one most available and cheap over here. I suppose so called 'distilled vinegar', which is a misnomer since it is not distiled but it is made out of distilled alcohol, would be best since it has no other ingredients apart from water and acetic acid. The dilution rate I have suggested is just an indicative starting point. People who take this seriously use some kind of pH testing means (pH colored strips are the most reliable imo unless one is colour blind ) and test for the pH of the solution to be around 5-6 i.e. similar to rain water. One can use any other acidifying agent (acid) at an appropriate rate of dilution to bring the pH down to this range. Organic acids like acetic and citric undergo quick breakdown in the soil so their effect is not long lasting. Sulfuric, nitric and phosphoric acids are used in the farming industry. There are also ready made products available (one such is called 'pH Down' in the States) which usually contain phosphoric acid at a dilution rate safe for amateur handling and they are often used in hydroponics (usually in amateur home cultivation of 'recreational' plants....). Nik |
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- Posted by PortlandMysteryRose 8 (My Page) on Sun, Apr 13, 14 at 15:27
| I amend soil with used tea leaves and coffee grounds to turn hydrangeas blue. I save a batch in a refrigerated container and then periodically trowel it in under the plants.I believe a member once posted that coffee grounds lose their acidity when the coffee is made, but the grounds must be acidic enough to work over time. Both kinds of leftovers produce gradual results and have to be applied repeatedly long before and up to summer bloom. In PDX, my soil is slightly acid, but I amend my Gentian Dome and other hydrangeas with morning beverage leftovers to push deeper blues. If I were trying to blue up a rose, I might experiment with this method, too. Just thinking out loud. :-) Carol |
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