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anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

Posted by ilovemyroses 8 Dallas TX (My Page) on
Sun, Apr 1, 12 at 22:14

i bought this, in my recent panic about spider mites, as i do have SOMETHING eating the tips of my rose buds, then moving on to the next one. thrips, i suspect.

i really hate stepping over the edge into products for roses....but, the salesperson presented a pretty good case for using it on at least one year old (in MY garden) roses.

does anyone use this WITH success on keeping the buds in one piece??

i have never seen SO MANY pests...that mild winter we had just didn't punch enough of these critters out!!

advice??

thanks,


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

I have, but truthfully, I quit using it. I think it helped temporarily, but in the long run, what it does to the soil flora/fauna is not worth it. Took me several years to get a few roses that I tried to "rescue" doing well; and it was lots of compost that got me there.

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Musings blog


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

I noticed a few years ago that thrips or aphids were getting on my young lighter colored roses, but nothing in the last couple of years, knock on wood! I do use a lot of mulch, and notice lots of lady bugs out and about... I used some kind of home remedy on the aphids, will try to come up with it for you.

Honestly, since I quit using chemicals a number of years ago I rarely see any problems.

Oh- do you use Alfalfa on your roses? It sure has made a difference in mine...my Abraham Darby used to get blackspot something fierce, and I do think the Alfalfa made a huge difference, have a little, but not enough to worry about (nothing scientific about this, mind you).


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

I used it last year because of rose midge. I could not find anything else to kill them. The roses did great, compared to the previous year-some bushes had every bloom destroyed.


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

I would never use that - it contains a pesticide that kills beneficial insects, (includnig bees!) which will only make your pest problems WAY worse in the future.

Jackie


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

Merit insecticide contained in many Bayer combo products is known to cause spider mite problems. Mites increase their reproductive rate when exposed to Merit, and it kills the predators that normally keep the mites in line.

Rule of thumb, never buy any combo product. Get an accurate diagnosis and use a targeted control, if there is an effective control. (There is no environmentally responsible and effective chemical control for Japanese beetles, for example.)

Second rule of thumb, never accept advice from a box store clerk. I think you should return the combo mix if you can.

Spider mites do not eat rose buds.


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

  • Posted by saldut 9-10 st pete, fl (My Page) on
    Mon, Apr 2, 12 at 15:45

If the problem is indeed spider-mites, a good blast of water from the hose, on a daily basis, is all that is needed..... they hate water, but get the blast under the leaves as well.... also alcohol w/ Dawn takes care of lots of bugs, I put it in an old spray bottle and keep it outside where I can grab it... I put pure rubbing alcohol in the bottle and add some Dawn, no water, and blast any time I see a bad-bug, and usually this is all I need.... I have a no-spray garden now for over 2 years w/my over 100 roses, plus tomatoes, etc. sally


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

I have to admit, since I stopped using the Bayer 3-1 a few years ago, I have had more insect problems. The thrips and other things that love to chew on roses. I wouldn't go back to using it regularly (too expensive, now that I have 100+ roses, and overkill for most of them) but I have considered using it on the few roses that have severe thrip issues.

I've never had spider mites, but I don't think it will work on them. I did use it successfully on my azaleas that had some sort of insect that I couldn't get rid of with spray alone.


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

  • Posted by hoovb z9 Southern CA (My Page) on
    Mon, Apr 2, 12 at 18:25

I tried it. Insecticide too strong, fungicide too weak, fertilizer too ephemeral.


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

Imidicloprid is one of the prime suspects for damage to bees.

It is also the primary active ingredient in Advantage for Fleas (dogs) and is a known trigger of seizures in susceptible dogs. Having owned a seizuring dog, I know that you don't know they are predisposed to seizures until something triggers seizures the first time, so I wouldn't touch Bayer Advantage in any form with a 10-ft. pole.

I keep thinking -- if it triggers seizures in dogs, what about small children?

Jeri


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

What else would stop rose midge? I had tried EVERYTHING but nothing touched them.
As for bees, when I used the product last year I honestly saw no decrease in bees. I only used it once, in the spring, maybe that's why. Also recently I was sent this report
http://resource.wur.nl/en/organisatie/detail/study_exonerates_imidacloprid_bee_poison/
I would rather not use anything, I don't even care about disease, aphids, etc. But with the rose midge, I had no blooms at all on some bushes.


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

It may be the best option, for all of that. But you need to know all of the aspects of a pesiticide, before using it.

Here are two statements from a selection of them that pop up on a Google: CONTROL OF ROSE MIDGE:

The recommended chemicals are imidacloprid and beta-cyfluthrin -- It's easy for me to say I won't use them, as we don't (yet) have a rose midge problem. If we DID, I might very well choose to suspend growing roses, in deference to my critters.

Here's some more info:

Aug 2008- an excellent set of articles updating Midge:
http://www.pghrosesociety.org/rosemidge.html
http://www.bayeradvanced.com/discussion/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=231
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roses-732/2008/2/rose-midge-infestation.htm
Editors note: Most all effective controls reference Bayer products (in 2007, 2008). Diazinon (pre-Bayer) was taken off the market. Orthene/Isotox may be effective- for the short period the larva are in the bud. Overwhelming reports indicate that very frequent applications of these insecticides (every 10 days, per label) is vital for control. Early May (in CT) applications of Merit-containing grub-type granules appear to be effective for allowing a Spring (June in CT) bloom, but not sufficient for late in the season.
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Bayer also makes a granular Complete Insect Killer for Soil and Turf, which contains the same active ingredients (imidacloprid and beta-cyfluthrin) as the liquid version of the product with the same name, however, Rose Midge is not specifically listed on the label for this easy to use granular product.
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GOOD LUCK!

Jeri


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

Gosh! Thx everybody! I am learning so much from you all!

I am so depressed tho! Every time I go visit my roses I spot a newly pest-harvested area, and now, a new spider mite area in the garden. And they are spider mites. The burnt orange dots on the underside of the leaves. Some webbing, especially on the underside. Paler, dry leaves.

I've been washing the roses daily, and think some areas are under control...but the thrips are out! Some tiny caterpillar drilled holes in bud, buds with just the tops eaten off. Bugs I've never ever seen before. One ladybug! She is overwhelmed with all the choices!! Slugs, a black slimy poop (not bird) in opened flowers...snail poop?

Tomorrow I am spreading the beneficial nematodes. Looking up home remedies on the net! Willing to try anything to get this under control. Now I understand the problems from a mild winter!

Can anyone share their home remedies and regiments for overall care? It is just killing me losing my spring show to BUGS! I am washing, checking into alfalfa, questioning neem oil, garlic spray, and the forces of a thumb pressed violently against an index finger!!!!


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

Good for you, ilovemyroses, for using less toxic controls. You might want to obtain and release thrips thrips predator mites (Amblyseius cucumeris) and interplant your roses with companion plants to attract and support a diverse beneficial insect population. Also maintain optimum soil health by adding alfalfa, compost, etc. That's worked for me. Others have mentioned that imidicloprid (active ingredient in Merit) is suspected in bee death; 3 studies have just been published identifying it as the prime contributor to colony collapse disorder.


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Tue, Apr 3, 12 at 11:22

I don't like the all in ones. If you need to fertilize, fertilize. If you need a fungicide, spray a fungicide. If you have insects, ID them first and then find the insecticide that works for that bug. RARELY, if ever, do you need to do all 3 of those things at one time so in the end you are usually wasting 1 or 2 out of 3 of those things. Just putting chemicals out there when they're not called for is the worst thing you can do, ineffective, wasteful, hazardous and expensive.


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

All right, all right, I hear you. Here in blackspot heaven, I am trying the no-spray route. I have already gone to only organic feedings, mulch, alfalfa, manure, etc...I am trying not to look at Golden Celebration, admittedly still in the pot.

I figure as a newbie, I need to get it right.
kay


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

I have read somewhere that if you plant onions or garlic by/under roses that it will help keep them away.. has anyone heard or tried this... Also with the alfalfa can I lay it under the roses?

Thanks


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

Alfalfa pellets thrown over the mulch may be eaten by mice and rabbits, and it would be a long time before any of the goodness gets into the roses. So you can do that, but it's not optimal.

I pull back the mulch, spread the alfalfa, wet it until the pellets swell and break up, and scumble it into the unconsolidated topsoil by hand. It's too much trouble (for me) to do it more than once per season.


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

I've certainly heard that about Society Garlic -- but GOOD GRIEF! I've worked in a garden around it, and -- I don't know whether Society Garlic repels bugs, but it sure as the day is light repels ME!

Jeri


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

I also used a product from gardens alive, now I don't remember what it was but they do have some pretty good products that are safe. I wonder if they are still around?
Bee Colony Collapse is a really complex issue-there is no difinitive cause as of yet-but pesticides and even the ways the bees are bred are certainly implicated. I think there was a similar decline in honey-bees 50 years ago but I will have to check.
Jeri-thank you for the info on rose midge!
SPIDER MITES- I had an infestation years ago. I had to literally BLAST the roses every night with a jet stream from the hose. I was blowing petals all over the garden too but who cares. I just blasted the undersides of the bushes, not every few nights, but every night. If I saw any of the little webs I cut that part of the plant off. I never saw any ill effects of spider mites on the roses, but I did read that eventually they WOULD compromise the health of the bush.

Ilovemyroses- you should take pictures of the damage and maybe someone can ID your pest. That black stuff, I saw the same thing, it was from those little green worms (winter moths). See if you can find any. I used to pick them off every day because tons would drop down from a Maple overhead.
Lots of good advice in this thread!


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

I don't have mulch left so we are going to get some soon. I have a ton of wild onions that grow so I pick those and spread that underneath and around the rose. Hopefully that works...


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

I mix up a small coffee can of alfalfa in a 5 gallon bucket, almost fill with water, put the cover on and let it sit a couple of days. The smell will gag a maggot, but the roses love it!


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

Ive used alfalfa pellets for years, even tried the whole soak them in, Ive NEVER seen any decrease of any infected rose for blackspot over the years.

Frankly the best thing to do is forget about the infected roses for your area and find the ones that grow without all the hassle, or learn to live with the ones that do get it, and go with the cycle of lost leaves and regrown ones.

Its one of the reasons I rarely bother with newer roses, most of these "desease" resistant ones are a farce, nothing is quite as healthy as the old spins, but barring that, most of my gallicas, albas are near spot free, or at least far enough into the season that any sort of fungal problem is far after the bloom cycles. Even my Centifolias stay clean until after bloom, however they quickly go under a attack after that point.

My worst roses that I still grow that get blackspot is the david austin, hybrid perpetuals I still bother with. I no longer buy them , not that I dont LIKE them, I DO , its just I dont want to spend the time spraying them.

Its the same reason I dont grown hollyhocks anymore, too much trouble. wish I could, but I have to much else to do to waste time doing that, there are so many plants and varities that do work here.

I HAVE broken down in the past and sprayed very powerful and probably terrible pestiside Sevin, to kill japanese beatles, I had to spray about once a week to keep thier #s down.

JBs are the worst ecological disaster in maine, it far surpasses anything else, but its the one item no one wants to talk about =(.

I dont have a good anser on JBs, thier #s increase every year, they are now in such a # here in teh state, that farmers are starting to loose acres to them in terms of corn and beans,(of all varities).

There is nothing that will keep thier #s down, becuase, frankly nothing works except to kill them , all the time.

Which also means you will be killing everything else, beneficial or not.

For those who do not have A HUGE , heavy population, to that point, its hard to describe what a full blown 2 weeks of a heavy jb cycle can do, they can strip every flower, every plant, every vegetable in hours. Its terrible.


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

Silverkelt, 2 weeks is still not that bad. We used to have 8-10 weeks of very heavy infestation. Everything destroyed, leaves, buds, even some canes. Hundreds of JBs in multiple layers on each bud when it is still a pea size. The last two years were lighter for some reason. Hope it will continue this way.
Agree with Silverkelt, Alfalfa is good for roses, but it does not help with BS or insects. I use it every year for the last 15-16 years in my garden.
Olga


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

wow, those japanese beetles are sure devastating. i think i might develop a taste for rock gardens, at that point. i am so sorry for those affected by that pest.

i am an unskilled rosarian of 10 years, and have never really 'had' to learn about this stuff. but the last few years i have substantially increased the size of my beds, and have gone deeper into david austins, and some hybrid teas. so, i am experiencing some things i am not skilled on.

regardless, i love it. and for now, it is worth the effort. i was out spreading beneficial nematodes this am, and i think i can get a handle on the spider mites. they are sure nasty tho. no, they don't bother the buds...at THIS point, but they zap the life out of your plant.

i'm committed to doing this organically. and will get the alfalfa going, too.

i think my climate is pretty favorable for roses, so, it's not like growing hydrangeas or other things that shouldn't be here!!

onward and upwards!! and i'll keep you posted if the nematodes seem to affect things. not quite sure what to expect. and know it isn't fast.

MAY do bayer on two or three david austins (pat austin, heritage, and a few others that are such a target for pests). IF, the nematodes don't put a dent in the thrips.

i HATE those ugly things.


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

The thing about Japanese Beatles that really angers me is that the USDA imported them!!


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

Gardens Alive! is still around.

Cath


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

During the last two years I lived in Alabama, the jb population really diminished to the point where I had hardly any. The local extension agent believed that the birds finally recognized them as a food source which took care of them.

ilovemyroses, I don't use the Bayer 3 in 1 either. I use manure, alfalfa, milorganite and occasionally rosetone as fertilizer. I squish aphids or Krista taught me that sprinkling flour on them suffocates them, so sometimes I do that or usually just wash them off with a hose. Most of the time I use water for any kind of a problem. It's different here than in the south, fewer insect problems as far as I can see, but in all the places I've grown roses, the secret to happy roses seems to be keeping the soil healthy. Eventually you'll find the balance of good insects and bad ones.

If you look at your roses as a garden plant rather than a high maintenance diva, if you don't demand perfection, if you are wanting a garden that's in balance, try not using chemicals or magic bullets to immediately fix something.

We all have to find the gardens we want. Trying reading Liz Druitt's "The Organic Rose Garden." It helped me a lot when I first got started.

Don't get discouraged; it's hard to make the switch, but if you want to, you can do it. It's just a change in thinking.


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

But rose midge is something I've never had to deal with.

Chili thrips are something else I wouldn't want to deal with, from what I've read about them.

If I wanted to use imidacloprid, though, I wouldn't use the Bayer 3 in 1, but I'd find the ingredient and use that, however it was labeled.


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

Japanese beetle populations vary in proportion to rainfall the PRECEDING late summer and fall. During droughts, the young larvae of the year cannot survive in heavy soil that has been baked dry. Owing to terrible droughts, the JB population here was knocked way back about four years ago and had not recovered as of last summer. It helps that most people in my city do not irrigate their lawns.


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

I was delighted last year to notice that the regular old house sparrows were dive bombing and eating the Japanese beetles right off my roses. Made the zillions of pounds of black sunflower seeds that we put out (mostly consumed by starlings, grackles, and squirrels, it seems) feel much more worthwhile. (Thanks to the family of robins that seemed to adopt our veg garden as its own special food preserve, we also had a squeaky-clean veg garden - first year ever without potato or bean beetles in any appreciable quantity. Of course, the robins don't use the bird feeder at all, but I like to think there was a newly apparent bird-friendliness about our place because of it...)


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

"I have read somewhere that if you plant onions or garlic by/under roses that it will help keep them away"

My rose nursery is in the vegetable garden where I grow several kinds of garlic. I have hard neck garlic growing everywhere because it seeds itself and I take the little bulb-lettes and scatter them in the mixed border of roses and perennials. I have never noticed any difference in areas with garlic and without when it comes to garden pests.


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

I've never used alfalfa pellets, but alfalfa meal seems easier to apply. I simply fill a large glass with the meal, dump it over the middle of the rose bush and water it in well. If you have drip irrigation this wouldn't work since you really have to drench it with a hose several times in order to disperse the meal and break it down. The results are worth it though.

Ingrid


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

Definitely the birds ate the JB's grubs. Last year was our wettest year in record, and I only killed less than 10 Japanese Beetles. When our house was first built 12 years ago, there were no trees, and no birds - my Knock-outs were covered in black with Japanese Beetles.

According to Field Roebuck, the herb that is tested effectively against BOTH aphids and spider mites is garlic chives. It's very invasive if you don't cut down the flowers before they become seeds. Keeping nature in balance is the key to pest control. Chemical fertilizers throw off that balance with rush of nitrogen, and its link to aphids infestation.

Plants with lacy leaves, fuzz, and many notches for tiny bugs to hide harbor spider mites and aphids. Examples are: marigolds, verbena, and cilantro. The good plants are the ones that harbor the beneficial insects (lacewings, ladybugs, praying mantis). Examples are: oregano, dill, garlic chives, wildflowers like calendula, yarrow, bachelor buttons. Calendula nectar feeds green lacewings. Lacewings give birth to larvae, or aphids lions.

Here's an excerpt: "Aphids lions can consume over 200 aphids or other prey per week. There is no other better predator known to consume vast quantities of eggs and the soft bodies of aphids, mealy-bugs, spider mites, leafhopper nymphs, caterpillar eggs, scales, thrips, and white-flies. The lacewing larvae attack the eggs of most pests and, if the bodies are not to hard and fast moving, will attack the adult pest stage as well."

Here is a link that might be useful: Green Lacewings as natual pest control


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

I used to use the Ortho 3 in 1 for years with good success then quit and have tried to be more earth and earth inhabitant friendly. But last year I had terrible thrips and used the Bayer 3 in 1 on several of the affected roses and the problem disappeared. This year I am using it again on these particular roses in the spring and otherwise will continue to use more organic ways to fertilize. While I am admitting this I should say that the other pesticide I am treating my roses with is Sevin as it kills the mite that carries RRD. I would rather not but I hate losing rose bushes even more.

On alfalfa use, I buy the pellets in the big feed sacks and brew the tea. After I have put the tea on the roses, I will later put the mash around the roses. The problem with just putting the pellets in with the mulch is that the seeds in the pellets will grow and have to be weeded. The seeds die in the tea. I also put a couple of cups of alfalfa into the mix when planting new roses.

Here is a link that might be useful: Red Dirt Roses blog


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RE: anyone use Bayer 3 in 1 product ?

Thank you, Wellrounded for that delightful blog - I'm glad I bought Evelyn after seeing the pic. you posted. You children are so-cute as kids, and as adults. It's good to have as many defense against mites, since they are so hard to get rid of. I had to rub branches with 90% alcohol after blasting with water didn't work.

I take back on listing yarrow plant as attracting beneficial insects. Ladybugs like that one, but I HATE yarrow. It was more invasive than English Ivy in wet alkaline clay, and I spent so much time killing yarrow. There are other plants which are NOT INVASIVE, such as Golden Marguerita, and my favorite: purple poppy mallow, looks great with orange/yellow Calendula.

Dill is my all-time favorite: easy to grow from seeds and easy to kill, thereby not invasive. Dill has the highest quercetin (anti-inflammation) and attracts the most beneficial insects. I have seen green lacewings, ladybugs, and praying mantis on my 10 cents dill patch.


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