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Benny Lopez

Posted by nastarana 5a (My Page) on
Mon, Apr 28, 14 at 22:27

I just uncovered Benny Lopez, the found Damask Perpetual from CA, today.

I am happy to report that BL appears small but healthy. There were several small green canes, not just barely green but bright alive green. I fertilized lightly--the organics I am using don't seem to burn my roses, so far--and applied a loose covering of straw for protection from cold winds.

So far, it would appear that Benny Lopez is hardy to zone 5, and any person or nursery offering it for sale or trade can so describe it.

Despite the small size, BL looked to be in better shape than some of my other roses.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Benny Lopez

  • Posted by fogrose zone 10/sunset 17 (My Page) on
    Tue, Apr 29, 14 at 0:27

It's a wonderful rose and I wish you the best of luck with it. I have 2!

Diane


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RE: Benny Lopez

How ever did I missed that Damask Perpetual? One of my favorite classes of roses and such a ruffled, fragrant specimen, darn it! Where the heck can I find a space to plant it?

Nastarana, I celebrate your hardy pink beauty! I would have been beyond ecstatic to have grown Benny in my MN garden years ago.

Carol


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RE: Benny Lopez

  • Posted by fogrose zone 10/sunset 17 (My Page) on
    Tue, Apr 29, 14 at 10:01

Carol, Benny Lopez has never been in commerce to my knowledge. It's a rose that was grown by a Mr. Benny Lopez from southern CA.

It is sometimes available at the Sacramento Cemetery sale and also at some southern CA antique rose sales.

Diane


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RE: Benny Lopez

My BL is tiny but alive and kicking right now. The Damask Perpetual group grow very slowly on their own roots in my climate but they do hang on. I will try to make cuttings available when I can.

Does anyone on this forum have any suggestions or experiences with rooting the Portland group to share?


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RE: Benny Lopez

Diane, thank you for the info.

Nastarana, I grow all my Portlands own root. When the plants are mature, slices of their spreading stolons seem to root very well.

Carol


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RE: Benny Lopez

Nastarana -- "Benny Lopez" roots relatively easily.

We wondered for some time what its habit would be, because although Mr. Lopez propagated his foundling often, he trimmed and trained all of his plants as "Standards."

He gave a plant to a family friend -- Ingrid Wapelhorst -- and it was Ingrid who shared it around, and gave a plant to the Sacramento City Cemetery.

It's a lovely rose, and no, it has not been in commerce. But it is possible that Burlington Rose Nursery MAY have it from time to time.


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RE: Benny Lopez

Beautiful photo, Jeri! I may be compelled to hover around Burlington in hope of a possibility. Carol


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RE: Benny Lopez

  • Posted by fogrose zone 10/sunset 17 (My Page) on
    Wed, Apr 30, 14 at 16:58

Carol, when my plants get bigger, if they sucker I can send one or two your way.

Remind me next year if you haven't gotten one yet.

Diane


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RE: Benny Lopez

Thanks to Jeri, I grew Benny for several years. It grew well enough; but, sadly, its flowers were extremely sensitive to the sun in my area (coastal So Cal), and would immediately scorch or look like cooked cabbage if it were anything but a very cool and cloudy day. One thing that interested me over the time I grew it was that it refused to bloom in a one-gallon or two-gallon can; it finally did in a five-gallon can; and bloomed well, though only to be scorched, in the open ground. It is very like the HP going around as 'Jay's Hudson Crimson'--though definitely not the same, as JHC does very well for me under much the same exposure, and the leaves differ. JHC is definitely an HP; Benny's might be a very early HP, or might be a DP/Portland. Its leaves, spination, and bud-form argue "DP/Portland"; the amplitude and lushness of the blossoms are more characteristic of an HP. Whatever it might be, it's a good rose if you can find a place where it doesn't scorch.


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RE: Benny Lopez

Diane, thank you so much! Perhaps I have something you'd like in exchange? I can send you a list of possibilities when I return from Dallas. Carol


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RE: Benny Lopez

Interesting that Benny Lopez scorches so badly in Southern CA when I haven't noticed that problem in Sacramento, where we get even hotter weather. Our plant is in full blazing sun, too. I'll keep an eye on it this year to see if it's a problem for us. Jay's Hudson Crimson is very similar, if not the same, as "Old Town Novato."
Anita


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RE: Benny Lopez

  • Posted by fogrose zone 10/sunset 17 (My Page) on
    Thu, May 1, 14 at 15:31

Benny blooms well for me even in my foggy part shade garden so part shade might help southern CA gardeners.

Diane


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RE: Benny Lopez

  • Posted by fogrose zone 10/sunset 17 (My Page) on
    Thu, May 1, 14 at 15:36

HelpMeFind lists Rose Petals Nursery in Florida as selling Benny Lopez!

Diane


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RE: Benny Lopez

I sent quite a few found California roses to Dr. Malcolm Manners in preparation for the Heritage Rose Foundation conference in Florida last year, in the hopes that some would work out well there and be available commercially on the east coast too. He's got Bloomfield Abundance, too, and our little mini China, Abbott and Burns Family rose. Abbott and Burns was especially interesting since it looks a lot like a mini China at a heritage farm that we visited. So much fun to exchange plants and compare notes.
Anita


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RE: Benny Lopez

Benny Lopez scorches here in my coastal area -- but only in weather like our present, with strong, dry, hot desert winds. And to be honest, very few roses don't have that problem.

Fortunately, this sort of weather is not normal for us.

Brent -- Latest news I have is that "Old Town Novato" is a match for Jay Williams "Hudson Crimson." Blooms are considerably larger than those of "Benny Lopez," but similar in form and color (at least, most of the time).

Here is "Old Town Novato."


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RE: Benny Lopez

Any thoughts if all three are actually the same rose in different conditions?

(FYI Benny is on my wish list if anyone will have cuttings)


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RE: Benny Lopez

"Benny Lopez" and "Old Town Novato" grow about 10-ft. apart here. They are definitely NOT the same rose. OTN has much larger blooms than B.L.

Cass Bernstein (who found "Old Town Novato") now believes that it is the same as Jay Williams foundling "Hudson Crimson." (I call it "Hudson Crimson" because that is what Jay calls it.)

Jay collected it on Hudson St., in Oakland, CA.
Cass collected it in an older area in Novato, CA


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RE: Benny Lopez

I suppose "Old Town Novato" is also not in commerce?

If it is a hybrid perpetual, we cold zoners might be able to grow it.


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RE: Benny Lopez

Unless Burlington Roses has it, I suppose it is not. We have so fewer nurseries, these days.

Yes, I imagine it might be good for you. :-(

Jeri


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RE: Benny Lopez

On the bright side, at the Sacramento City Cemetery's open garden and rose sale, we had for the first time enough OTN to satisfy everyone looking for it. :-)


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RE: Benny Lopez

Benny Lopez grew slowly over the summer. It is now about 15" tall. It gave a few flowers last spring. The best news is how clean and healthy the foliage is. Some of my other Damask Perpetuals are almost defoliated, Miranda and Pergolese especially, but BL is showing no disease and none of the brown leaves, the "Damask crud", on Pergolese. Miranda is in a very bad location and needs to be moved. These Damask Perpetuals do seem to need rich soil, and I am beginning to think they do better on their own roots than on multiflora.


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RE: Benny Lopez

You know what? That just TICKLES ME PINK.

Nastarana -- it makes my day to think that this little rose from Southern California has done so well in your colder climate.

Nicest thing I've heard all day!

Jeri


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RE: Benny Lopez

Brnny Lopez is now about 30" tall and is now blooming again. Still a bit sparse, but I trust it will fill in next year. I am now seeing some browming of leaves towards the bottom of the canes. I don't know if this is BS or just dead leaves which continue to cling to their stems, but I can live with it. I just cut a flower for the house. It almost looks like a mad Gallica in color and form, and did anyone mention the lovely fragrance? On the basis of first year performance, I think I can confidently say BL is hardy to at least zone 5a, with protection. Like all my Damask Perpetuals, it does seem to require rich soil and a good fert regimen--I would say, treat this group like modern roses if you want them to grow and bloom.


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RE: Benny Lopez

Well it is in commerce in at least one (obscure) nursery in Europe.and seems highly appreciative of our chilly winters. Wonder if Mariannese has it (for it is she who gave me the heads up)?.


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RE: Benny Lopez

campanula, might there be any historic collection of Damask Perpetuals in Europe against which Benny could be compared? Maybe we could get a correct ID of this rose.


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RE: Benny Lopez

Fraid that this rose is one of a tranche of US roses - came to my notice because they (Rosaplant) are selling a couple of older hulthemias raised by Mr Moore (Persian Sunset et al) and also a handful of Kim's roses....so I am pretty sure someone on your side of the pond knows more than me.

However, Sangerhausen has proved (and still does) a treasure trove of obscure and almost forgotten roses - have you contacted them?


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RE: Benny Lopez

I know that a few of our CA roses -- including Benny Lopez and Grandmother's Hat -- have gone to European nurseries ... and I was startled recently to see a B.L. bloom posted on Facebook by a gentleman in Japan. (WHEEEE!!)

My conditions are almost fatal for HPs and difficult for most DPs -- but remember -- Benny was found a few miles from here, in coastal Santa Barbara. I don't care what he is. I just enjoy knowing that he does so well for me.

It is a beautiful rose. I am thrilled that it grows well for me. I love it.

Jeri


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RE: Benny Lopez

It looks like an early HP to me: 1840s-1850s. The amply-proportioned and somewhat shiny leaves just don't have the pert and matte look of those characteristic of DPs (not to say that there aren't exceptions!); the spination, though showing a very strong DP influence, also shows that there's "something else" as well in the plant's heritage; and there's something going on in the way the flowers open, as if there's a thought of opening spirally (like a China-influenced rose), but it's being overwhelmed by an instinct to open radially (like a DP). All of this suggests to me that its parentage was something like (DP) x (Bourbon x early HP), or maybe (and perhaps more likely) just an early HP going all mixed-up ancestral on us in its progeny. Trying to identify an early-ish red HP would be rather a challenge, to put it mildly!


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RE: Benny Lopez

One thing that's interesting about this rose is that it performs well here. And that is NOT characteristic of most HPs -- indeed, not characteristic of most DPs!

In general, the things that have survived in Santa Barbara seem to be Teas, or have a healthy dose of Tea -- so its survival is as surprising as its performance.

I do know that it performs best when well-hydrated. And I love it.


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RE: Benny Lopez

I am surprised by how many of the recently reintroduced found roses are proving to be excellent garden plants. I am thinking of Benny, Secret Garden Musk Climber, Darlow's 'Enigma, Pleasant Hill Cemetary and Mancheser Gardian Angel, just to name a few I have grown.

The only found rose I have so far decided I could live without was the Red Runabout. Most turn out to be some of the best in the garden.


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RE: Benny Lopez

Nastarana -- You're right.

But think on it! They survived because they were "easy keepers," who could get along with little or no attention and fuss. And that is part of what attracts me to them.


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RE: Benny Lopez

Absolutely. I don't mean to be lazy and negligent, it's just that I have short attention spans and there is always something else coming around the corner so this years crazes have to manage without any further input....and these 'found' roses are usually, by their very nature, the ones most appropriate for slackers such as myself. Of course, we don't really do the 'found' thing here in the UK....but a fertile source of cuttings has always been old gardens and even better, Victorian municipal recreation parks. Years ago, when we had park-keepers and groundsmen, these places often boasted wonderful glasshouses and fabulous rhododendron and other shrub collections (such as my beloved deutzias)....but these days of cutbacks, only the toughies survive years of non-watering, non-feeding and rumbustious children and wayward dogs and footballs - exactly the plants I am looking for.


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RE: Benny Lopez

I want Benny Lopez! Living in Santa Barbara it seems like a must.

I would love to hear more about Benny Lopez the person.

Old Town Novato has also been on the wish list.


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RE: Benny Lopez

Kippy -- Somehow, I thought you already had it.

I should ask Ingrid -- who obtained the rose from Mr. Lopez -- to tell the story again.


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