How much space do you have? DO YOU HAVE A BIG TREE?

I've seen her grown like a huge haystack (I bet there was a structure under there. But on the ground, she takes up SPACE. I'd worry about putting her on a structure (such as a garage), because, remember, she's vicious.

This is a rather young Mermaid, up a Sycamore tree, on the outskirts of the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden. WE don't have her. We just have no place for her.

Jeri

Susan, if Mermaid is ANYTHING there as she is here, you won't need more than one year before she begins eating the world! Those roots grow QUICKLY and easily push through the bottom of a can, permanently securing it to the ground. EVERY piece of root left in the soil coommeess baaacckk! Bracteata is immortal and Mermaid is, too. However you secure her, it must be strong because she is a BIG GIRL! I hope others near you who have dealt with her chime in with their impressions. If I could keep her watered here, I would plant her in a minute, but there is no where to put her I can reach with a hose! Kim

I have had Mermaid for about 10 years growing in a large pot. This seems to keep her in-bounds. She is vicious, but lovely.

I saw Mermaid for the first time while my husband and I were vacationing in Venice, Italy, a few years ago. It was grown up to and across a second-story balcony, stretching across the entire building. I think they didn't let it branch until well above the ground for safety reasons (thorns) -- the fragrance carried for yards and yards. Of course the mild, humid atmosphere helped in that department. I think I also remember seeing one trained on a VERY high arch over a gateway-- no foliage or flowers below 10 or 15 feet. Same rationale, no doubt. Trachelospermum jasminoides (Confederate jasmine) was also grown this way with very fragrant results. It was divine.

I had Mermaid years ago, in another hot and dry garden, and was not overwhelmed in any way. I suspect I don't have the right climate for this rose. Besides, it scares me.

Ingrid

Don't be scared, Susan, this is eminently do-able. There is a huge (aren't they always) Mermaid at my sons housing co-op which covers the whole wall up to 7m high and as much wide.
Firstly, the wire - do not skimp on this - get galvanised steel, 3-5 ply. Single strand wire will break under the weight of the canes. Make sure the wires are taut by using tension bearers/ straining wires (I dunno what you call them in the states, but your hardware shop will know - they enable you to tighten the wires once they are in place and allow for later sagging).
Vine eyes - these are what the wire passes through and must be placed every 4-6feet - try to get the 6inch ones and get at least half of that in the concrete -You will need a good masonry drill with plenty of torque and punch, on hammer setting. Hold the vine eyes in place with rawl plugs.
Start the first row of wires about 18inches from the floor and space them every 18inches up to the top (Yeah, I know, there is no way you are going to disguise this from your dad......but spend a bit of time looking at pics and you will see that the results can be spectacular).
Pruning - Mermaid has reddish, flexible stems with many prickles - get some good gauntlets and do not wait until spring to prune - you can do it around November. Be harsh. Remove every side shoot by at least two thirds - this will hold the rose to a flatter, more 2dimensional space because you do not want it flinging arching canes out as an attack rose.
Again, don't be scared - you CAN do this.
The big plus about Mermaid is the rather good glossy foliage which is a perfect foil for the enormous moon-like flowers. The whole garage wall will eventually be hidden. You will be able to lean a ladder against the whole thing to get to the top branches.
Yes, it is thorny BUT NOT MORE THAN MANY OTHER ROSES. The position you have chosen is completely perfect for this rose but do not expect it to cover itself in blooms - it has roses more 'dotted about' and looks gorgeous as an informal cottage-y wall cover.

Alternatively, you could just get a wisteria.

you'll have to let me know how this little experiment goes in our neck of the woods. I havent tried her for two reasons: size and hardiness (same reasons I haven't tried Lady Banks). I am very very tempted by Happenstance, her miniature sport.

I have ventured into New Dawn territory, but shes still small. Also tempted by Rambling Rector...hmm

tammy

I am covered with scratches this morning from working on Happenstance. It's a miniature sport in terms of flowers and leaves but not prickles or exuberant growth. I had a volunteer come get me to look at a rose in the perennial garden in the cemetery, because he was sure it was mis-labeled. He showed me a huge pile of arching canes, and said "I looked it up and it's supposed to be a MINIATURE!" I assured him it was, at least compared to its parent, and that it was simply a very lovely plant of Happenstance looking exactly as it should. I have mine espaliered on a trellis on west facing wall - sound familiar? It broke the trellis last year - I'll admit that I wasn't keeping it pruned and trained - and the area filled up with rose. I whacked back 80% of it, my husband replaced the trellis (we should have done the thorough job of setting wires that Camp recommends) and I tied it back up yesterday. It is lovely, but I'm going to work to keep it as two-dimensional as possible. It sends so many arching laterals in every direction - I have to be severe about cutting them back, since the space where it grows is rather narrow. I have a lot of experience espaliering roses in the cemetery and at home, and this is the only one that requires so much vigilance. Two big old Mermaids grow in my neighborhood - one up a tree, and the other along a chain link fence in front of a house, which it covers completely. Both of these roses, as well as my Happenstance, are dotted with yellowish star-like flowers much of the year. Very rewarding, if rather overwhelming!
Anita

I live near San Jose and have two very large Mermaids on a chain link fence. I think that Campanula and Anita are spot on with the advice that you have to be vigilant with Mermaid. You can not neglect the pruning. And you may find that like me pruning is a twice or thrice a year affair. (I will post pix of what happens when you let Mermaid "go" as the previous owners of my house did.) It may be that I have to prune so often because as a newbie I was afraid of taking too much out and I am making up for the fact that it had previously been sheared as an enormous hedge. The hedge thing is fine depending on what you want and where it is located, of course.

I find that it is well worth the effort. I think it is gorgeous. In my climate it is evergreen and serves its function of privacy screen perfectly. As stated previously, it is no more thorny than many other roses. I had two American Pillars which I finally gave up on and took out because the maintence was so hard and the location was bad (plus mildew issues). The thorns were worse the vigor more astounding.

Mermaid is a rose that I am willing to work at because of its health and beauty. Best of luck with yours, Anne

P.S. pix to follow

oh wow! thanks for the info, Anita. HMF has Happenstance at 2-3 ft...thats wjy I really appreciate first hand experience. it really is pretty from all the pictures. I think ARE is the only one who has it in stock right now, and Vintage may have Little Mermaid, but I hear conflicting reports re whether or not are the same rose.

Tammy

We grew Happenstance for years, and it was just like having a more-manageable Mermaid.

Jeri

We grew Happenstance for years, and it was just like having a more-manageable Mermaid.

Jeri

I planted Mermaid August 2011. She was a band. Having heard that she would be a vigerous grower, I placed her accordingly. She is planted next to a 2'x2'x8' brick column which my Hubby has anchored hooks to, she is now a mound about 2' tall. 3 of her branches are being encouraged to climb the brick column.. When she outgrows this structure; 4 Doug Firs which are approx. 40' tall grow next to it. Hopefully she will growup them.
She is evergreen here and her scattered blooms are stunning. We hope this placement works. I mound horse manure around her base about November as she is not known to be cold hardy.
Good luck Tammy. Hope my idea can be useful for you.
Jeannie

hmm...may need to add Little Mermaid to my outstanding Vintage order. Thanks for the info, Kim!

sorry for hijacking your post with my sport inquiries, Susan :)

This post was edited by TNY78 on Tue, Apr 16, 13 at 16:43

First of all, THANKS everyone for the info. I greatly appreciate it. Camps, I appreciate your encouragement. The way you directed the installation process made much more sense than when I read it in a book. So I am really looking forward to growing her.
I do have a hot humid climate so I hope that fragrance will waft!
Tammy, you will have to let us know what you purchase.
I purchased Mermaid 2G from ARE. All my plants from them are lovely.
I will take photos of the process and keep everyone posted.
Anne, send those photos on!
Susan

Some great info here re. anchoring a huge plant. But I would argue that Mermaid IS extraordinarily thorny. Really strong, hooked abundant thorns, like blackberry plants, but larger & more hooked. I'd do LOTS of pre-planning to reduce the amount of time you have to spend dealing with those canes close-up.
Lovely flowers, tho, & beautiful foliage.

There was a Mermaid which grew through the large Althea seedlings along the fire road at the Newhall garden. It is the large, light colored flowers you can see in the trees along the road at 6 o'clock in the photo. The gardening staff would machete it regularly because its wands would pull them off the truck as they backed down in the evenings. A friend, thinking we would be smart, brought over her ten hp gas garden shredder. Stupidly, I attempted to shred Mermaid wands. The bloody thing began whipping around, wrapping itself around my torso and embedding those eagle talons in my back and side, pulling me toward the shredder. NEVER again will I try shredding Mermaid! Machetes are definitely the way to go! Kim

Ok you all. Now I'm terrified! Fools rush in and all that! Maybe I will let it grow on the common fence shared with my neighbors who have a pool and never invited me for a swim?

PERFECT Susan! You can tell them it's to help them out with the "security of the pool" so no one jumps your fence and gets hurt. But, we all know you want to share the wealth of maintenance with them for never inviting you to swim! LOL! Kim

Kim, thanks for the reminder about the two sports. My rose at home is probably Little Mermaid - I bought it as that at Sequoia. The one in the cemetery is labelled Happenstance - I think that Mel gave Barbara this plant so it's probably right. I first saw Happenstance in Betsy Clebsch's garden and it was relatively demure at about five feet around and high. I also saw it trained as a rather modest climber at a garden in Richmond. That is what led me to buy Little Mermaid, under the impression they were the same rose. My Little Mermaid is definitely a climber, no dieback at all, definitely thorny, and quite the beauty.
Anita

You're welcome Anita. Given the choice, I would take Little Mermaid over Happenstance any day. It's more graceful, elegant and easier to grow. I'm glad you have it! Kim

Ha, you only make the chipper mistake once! And in my case, it wasn't even a Mermaid but common old blackberry. Works OK when the wood is completely dead, dry and brown.....but even a hint of green growth and the shredder blades rip the woody fibres, not cutting through cleanly (sweetcorn stems will cause the whole thing to choke up completely), causing the end to flail around terribly. Because we had only recently bought this lovely new toy, I was still at the testing and trying stage.....but my poor hands and arms were lacerated and worse, the very end of the cane whipped across my cheek, just missing an eye.

I now wear gauntlets, glasses and am very particular about what wood we put through the chipper (and, as it weighs a ton, unless we have an entire tree or large shrub, I stick to the pruning saw and incinerator).

Happenstance, known here as Baby Mermaid was bred by a chap called Buss, and I recall my college lecturer telling me that there was a different rose known as 'Little Mermaid'.
Even though Mermaid was an english rose, it can suffer from the cold and needs careful placing, here in the UK. Have avoided Happenstance for the same reason (how many west facing walls can a person have?)
Susan, if you have a space where you can let it free, it will be fine......but the whole point of Mermaid is to have a wall covered in lush leaf and gorgeous flowers. Like a well trained pyracantha, it just looks superb given good maintenance (hacking back) and the right spot.

Just spent the morning inside Mermaid on my North wall.

B*tch would make the Dalai Lama swear :)

Best wishes
Jon

I'm in middle Georgia and have Mermaid (4 years old) growing up a Cherry Laurel Tree. It is massive and I just love it. I use very long bamboo poles to push long canes that flop down into the tree in hopes of training it to go high. It has many 15 to 20 ft. canes, some of which have pulled down more sideways because of the weight. If I'm successful rooting this I might try it on a sturdier tree. The spring flush, yet to come, is always magnificent, with decent flowering all summer and a heavy fall flush when the weather cools.
Jane

The chain link fence is holding up so far. I don't know if you can see how the chain link is pulling away from the wood because of the husky cane on the right. There is a fatter cane out off frame pulling on the fence as well.

I looked for instructions on how to post multiple photos but couldn't find any. So, here is an example of M eating fence.

Last image of fence eating Mermaid.

Oops. Here is the first image I meant to attach.

"B*tch would make the Dalai Lama swear :)" Spoken by a gentleman obviously familiar with being intimate with Mermaid! That gave me the best laugh of the morning, Jon, thank you!

Jane, I know the climate is completely different, but an old nurseryman in California reported years ago his best success with Mermaid was from September cuttings. If she resists your attempts earlier in the year, you might try more hard wood cuttings later in the year. Once you find the right combination of variables, she will root rather easily. Kim

I had a Mermaid that I had to pull out of the attic at least 3 times a year (grew through the roof vents).

She pushed down the 4x4 & cattle panel arbor that I built, she bit me in the head (for years, I had a lump in my head from one of those fishhooks).

She had beautiful, fragrant flowers that the little wild bees loved, & to my mind, the only place for Mermaid is in a nature preserve.

(very good for birds to nest in:
I once had to rescue the neighbor's cat who had gotten stuck in Mermaid when she went after a nest of baby birds.
had to cut that cat's hair to get her out of there.)

Mermaid will pull eye bolts out of your wall, & if the wall resists, she'll pull the whole wall out.

Maybe you could try Peggy Martin or Zepherine Droughin or one of the other big girls?

Jon, I'm laughing too - and wincing in sympathetic pain!
Anita

HA! The image of a Mermaid cane swirling around in a shredder to whip & slash with the other end is perversely funny, I suppose because it didn't happen to me.

I planted some MacCartney rose switches along a brick wall but lived to regret it. Dang, that's a vicious thing.

Kim, Thanks for the tip on rooting Mermaid. I will try again in the fall.
Jane

Mermaid will thrive in Tennessee as long as you aren't up in the highest mountains.

Mermaid gets Rose Rosette.

When a rose gets rose rosette, it needs to be rogued out. To rogue out a rose, you need to be strong, persistant, and able to reach all of the plant and roots.

First of all, Jon, I am laughing hysterically. Thanks for the tip! I seem to court danger most of the time so I guess I'm going to plant her.
And yes, she looks beautiful growing like a pyracantha on a wall.
HOwEVEr, based on all the terrifying and hilarious feedback I am going to put her up a 70 year old apple tree that is on its last legs. Maybe she will keep it from falling over?
Sylvia and Annsfbay: You have scared me straight!
Susan

I haven't been to ARE for several years, but you used to be able to tell when you were getting close because you could see the monster Mermaid on the fence behind the nursery. Seems like it went on for several blocks, though they don't really have a neighborhood there.

I planted Mermaid early in the second stage of my rose growing career, that is, about 14 years ago. After a year on this forum reading such stories and seeing such pictures, I shovel pruned it. Honestly, this rose scares me.

Rosefolly (not so much a fool not to know her limits)

I am in love with Mermaid. I've espaliered Mermaid after seeing this done at Morcom Amphiteatre of Roses in Oakland, California, where they keep a 'Mermaid' on a chain link fence, and the plant is only 5 and 1/2 feet tall, and 12' to 14' feet wide, and only 4 and 1/2 feet from the fence outwards. In the 1950's an entire hillside was planted with several dozen Mermaid plants when the place was called the Oakland Rose garden. Weeding became a problem, and so these were removed, but one remains espaliered on the upper tier in the south side of the Wedding area.

Mermaid can be contained.
I'm growing mine with c. the same proportions, but letting it spread 25 feet across my fence.
I wish more folks bred climbers from Old Garden Tea roses.

Luxrosa

Lux, what a great bit of history about Morcom! People are terrified of just one Mermaid (myself included); several dozen -- acres, no doubt -- could cause mass hysteria these days. "Weeding became a problem," has to be the understatement of the century (I wonder how many workers were lost...). You have made my day! ~ Debbie

This post was edited by catspa on Wed, May 1, 13 at 20:09

Thanks Lux. Got any photos of yours?
Susan

I feel the same about Robusta, I am sure they heard me swearing next door where the Presbyterian Minister lives right next to the chuch.. but I got stuck under Robusta and I could not get out.. He is also gotten completely out of control. Not like Mermaid, but large and with huge thorns. I would forget about Mermaid and put her far away from the house. I have mine between us and the ministers house.. hoping it will grow up and over.. I have a wonderful Soaring Flight from Heirloom roses. They seem to be out now but will hopefully have more coming in.. She is absolutley lovely. She is a everblooming rambler with semidouble pink and yellow blend flowers and they flower profusely. Mine is about 6 years old and covers a 12 x 12 ft area on the side of my house. She will need support to hold her up but she is a lovely rose.
Someone mentioned Lady Banks as being a problem. I have her on the fence between our two properties and she is a perfect Lady without the thorns. She only blooms once a year which is really a negative since she is so beautiful.. The are so many roses to choose from. Zepherine Droughin has beautiful pink flowers, and is suppose to be a great climber. Dortmund it a beautiful red climber that will climb fast and is very noticeable from far away.. she just keeps blooming those large since red roses with yellow stamens that are very attractive. They have thorns but the are manageable. William Baffin is very nice rose but is also just full of thorns. I would put William Baffin and Robusta under windows to keep you from getting broken into. Just don't put them under a window you may need to get out of..

I feel the same about Robusta, I am sure they heard me swearing next door where the Presbyterian Minister lives right next to the chuch.. but I got stuck under Robusta and I could not get out.. He is also gotten completely out of control. Not like Mermaid, but large and with huge thorns. I would forget about Mermaid and put her far away from the house. I have mine between us and the ministers house.. hoping it will grow up and over.. I have a wonderful Soaring Flight from Heirloom roses. They seem to be out now but will hopefully have more coming in.. She is absolutley lovely. She is a everblooming rambler with semidouble pink and yellow blend flowers and they flower profusely. Mine is about 6 years old and covers a 12 x 12 ft area on the side of my house. She will need support to hold her up but she is a lovely rose.
Someone mentioned Lady Banks as being a problem. I have her on the fence between our two properties and she is a perfect Lady without the thorns. She only blooms once a year which is really a negative since she is so beautiful.. The are so many roses to choose from. Zepherine Droughin has beautiful pink flowers, and is suppose to be a great climber. Dortmund it a beautiful red climber that will climb fast and is very noticeable from far away.. she just keeps blooming those large since red roses with yellow stamens that are very attractive. They have thorns but the are manageable. William Baffin is very nice rose but is also just full of thorns. I would put William Baffin and Robusta under windows to keep you from getting broken into. Just don't put them under a window you may need to get out of..

Robusta IS "robust"! I grew it in the old Newhall garden years ago, and you're right. It BITES! Gorgeous, ever flowering, healthy as a horse and ginormous, but those prickles! I'm glad you extricated yourself. I can well imagine how you felt! Kim