some flowers

closer up

full frontal, see how yellow?

This post was edited by phoebe368 on Sat, Apr 6, 13 at 16:51

front view of a different blossom, slightly different lighting

pic of bud

side view of bush

side pic from other side. if anybody needs me to post more pics please let me know.,

last pic

It looks like an older climbing HT which has been left to grow as a "shrub". Which one, I can't suggest...yet. Kim

Well, what EVER it is, it is lovely. Is it fragrant? Is it clean?

Can you propagate it?????

Jeri

My neighborhood! What's the address? Email me please if you don't want to put in for the world to see...

Fragrance wise, my mom says the scent is strong and fresh, with a bit of spiciness. I don't smell anything because I have nasal allergies right now and am taking lots of nasal sprays. It is disease free - no rust, bs, mildew. I took a few cuttings and am trying to propagate it. This is my first time propagating a rose wish me luck.

hoovb, i just e-mailed you

thanks phoebe368, got it. I'll see if I can get over there tomorrow morning.

duplicate post

This post was edited by phoebe368 on Sat, Apr 6, 13 at 19:24

HoobB -- You go, girl!

There are so few Found Roses from Southern CA -- I'm delighted when one shows up.

Please, please keep us posted.

Jeri

Oh, this is exciting! I hope hoov can ID it for you. It's a lovely rose what ever it is!

I definitely share everyone's enthusiasm! I'm new to this forum and appreciate the passion you all have for these forgotten beauties. I worked around the corner from this rose and used to walk past it on my breaks. Everyone who passed by picked the irresistible blooms. I can't wait to hear Hoovb's comments on it.

Now that is a stunning rose! I love love love the light yellow old fashioned blooms it has! I'm interested to hear Hoovb's comments too :)

Tammy

How beautiful and healthy. We're waiting impatiently, Hoov.

Yep, just got back from there. I got some good photos and some good cuttings ;^) Give me a little time to crop the photos and post. Also I'm going to see Jerome this afternoon and will bring my samples and see what he thinks also, as he has a lot of Tea roses there.

It screams "Tea!" or "Very early HT!" to me, and wow is it a BEAUTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Roses, like children and pets, lay in wait to make liars out of you. "Oh, he doesn't bite!" as you recoil your bloody stump. I'd never paid attention to, or the climate never supported, or, I'd never viewed a fresh enough bloom to observe the yellow tints to the centers of Snowbird. This is how it looks out back right now. This is the Snowbird I've grown for thirty years, propagated from the old plant I had for many years in Newhall. I'm glad you got over there this morning Hoov. I can't wait to see what you unearth! Thanks. Kim

Kim, Billy West recently made a similar observation on the Florence Bower's page on HMF:
"And when you think you know a rose pretty well, they do things that you have never seen before. (Best to never say never with Tea roses. If you say "I have never seen a prickle on the stems of 'G. Nabonnand' ", for example, the next time you go out into the garden to pick a bunch, there will be a single prickle winking at you.)"

I wish my Snowbird were closer to blooming, so as to compare. The overall look of leaflet shape/texture, stems, prickles on my Snowbird bear resemblance to those in the photos above, along with the "Snowbird-esque" appearance of the flower. But if Snowbird gets that big, I've got to be planning ahead here...

~ Debbie

I'm glad you found it OK, Hoovb. It does closely resemble Snowbird. A side by side comparison would be nice.

That plant is beautiful! I would love to have that in my garden! Sigh :)

I hope you are successful with propagating this gorgeous rose :)

Marleah

Here's a picture of my Snowbird Cl right now. It's in full bloom at the moment.

Debbie, unless yours is the climbing sport, don't worry about it. Bush Snowbird, if happy and never pruned, should eventually get about five by five feet in many places. The climber is something completely different. The one in question here is, I'm sure, a climber.

I have a friend in Torrance has an own root one which has grown against her garage and over the doors for over 25 years. It usually ate the front of the garage. The main trunk is a bit over three inches in diameter and extremely woody. Unfortunately, it started into decline and I discovered it is severely galled, so we selectively pruned it, fertilized the dickens out of it and it's being permitted to show what it can do after "surgery". The climber can achieve some mighty respectable proportions with little encouragement. You actually were able to buy Cl. Snowbird as a budded bare root from Week's about twenty years ago. Kim

My Snowbird is the bush form, so that's good news, Kim. Thank you. I gave it the place of honor next to the front door, because it's such a beauty. I was thinking along the lines of 5'x5'...but it wouldn't have been my first, or last, such miscalculation...Debbie

This post was edited by catspa on Sun, Apr 7, 13 at 20:49

Okay, I got a lot of photos.

First of all, it's a yellow rose, not just in the center. My camera is whitening the outer petals. It's not a white rose. Without doubt, yellow:
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The reverse of the petals is white with a yellow base:
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Yes there was some mildew. The foliage was large-ish and had a slight gloss. Perhaps slightly unusual in that most of the leaves were in 3s instead of the usual 5s.
{{gwi:257446}}

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To me the growth habit was very Tea-like: twiggy, zig-zagging, with new blooming growth emerging immediately below the abscission layer of the previous flower:
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The prickles were few, small, and hooked:
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Even down at the base of the plant, prickles were few, but they were there:
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The new growth is a light burgundy.
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The buds showed yellow color:
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Though I did find one bud with a touch of carmine:
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The dead wood and the structure at the base of the plant looked Tea to me as well. It did not appear to be a staggeringly old plant, unless it had been pulled out at one point and had grown back from the roots.
{{gwi:257455}}

It did not require support from the house behind it. The photo does not quite bring across the grace of the growth habit. Even in neglect a beautiful plant:
{{gwi:257456}}

Though only the center of the flower appears yellow, the entire flower really is yellow. Heavy overcast today meant light was low.
{{gwi:257458}}

This bud was inside the plant, so it was quite dark in there and the lighting makes the bud appear to be white, which it is not.
{{gwi:257460}}
This rose obviously blooms a lot. Old hip:
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So, that's that. Unfortunately, I have never seen 'Snowbird' in person. The "mystery" looks quite a bit more yellow than 'Snowbird', but it IS planted on the north side of a building--does 'Snowbird' get yellow in part shade? Perhaps someone can compare the small prickles above the abcission layer on the bloom stem to a 'Snowbird', the stem prickes, the growth habit, and the other features I have tried to focus on and see how it compares to 'Snowbird'.

My nose found the fragrance (delightful, by the way) as strong Tea with pepper and an intermittent note of lemon.

Wow what a great find Phoebe!!! Gorgeous!

Now to try to root the cuttings...

Hoovb,

Great in-depth analysis and pictures. You mentioned a lot of things I would have never considered - you are certainly an expert. I agree about the overall color being yellow. Depending on the lighting, my camera would also whiten the flower. In your first pic (more shade) it looks yellow but when taken in more sunlight (3rd from last pic) it looks a lot whiter. It is lemon yellow in the center which lightens in shade as it emanates towards the outer petals.

Also, could someone please measure the diameter of "Snowbird" in full bloom? A size comparison would be a good idea.

This post was edited by phoebe368 on Sun, Apr 7, 13 at 22:24

Great job documenting the rose!
Am wondering if it could be Etoile de Lyon?
I've not grown it, but Anita has a plant of Etoile de Lyon.
Though the growth is twiggy and tea like, the foliage looks a bit more early HT rather than tea.

Hope your cuttings take.

I wondered too if it could be Etoile de Lyon; there is a good description of EdL in the Australian tea book and it says, though, that there are a lot of prickles on it and that it's often confused with Perle de Jardin which looks very similar. but PdJ doesn't have many prickles; new ones appear on the new canes but they fall off so that the old canes have few. Anyway, good descriptions of both roses in that book.

I hope you all have fun figuring this puzzle out and really enjoyed reading this thread and looking at those great pictures! Gean

This post was edited by harborrose on Mon, Apr 8, 13 at 1:17

How about Alexander Hill Gray? I have one blooming now, and it resembles these photos.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

I did wonder about 'Etoile de Lyon'. Jerome's garden has EdL and I had a close look. Nope. 'Etoile' has that distinctive feature of the flat-bottomed hip (illustrated in the Australian Tea book on page 99) and there were several other features which eliminated EdL.

'Alexander Hill Gray', I'll look at that one. Waiting on someone with 'Snowbird' to chime in as to prickle shape/count, etc...

I agree, not 'Etoile de Lyon'. Blossom and leaves quite different, and it is virtually the only tea in my garden that has never had even a hint of mildew. EdL here is more white than yellow except in totally shaded positions or if a cut bloom has been in the house a few days.

If I remember right, there are two versions of bush-form Snowbird in the SJHRG, one of which was said to show more yellow. Can someone help with this vague recollection of mine?

Here are some photos of features on my young (1 1/2 years in ground) Snowbird this morning. There are only buds (and aphids) -- no flowers yet -- and all leaves are this year's leaves. My Snowbird has relatively few prickles.

Debbie

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A whole-plant shot of my very young (3' tall at its highest point) Snowbird, to show overall growth pattern (if you can call it that at this stage).

{{gwi:257478}}

Prickle size, shape and quantity would best be compared against a Climbing Snowbird. Those of the climbing form, as with many others which have climbing sports, are very often larger and denser than those on the bush form, which is logical. In this case, they are more of a climbing tool than 'armature'. If this is a Snowbird, it's the climber and not the bush. Kim

Picked some more blooms today. Here is a pic where you can see its overall color better. I also found out that the house it is growing in front of was built in 1915. Also, I agree with Kim that it is probably a climber that grew into a big shrub due to lack of support. I was looking at the rear of the plant today and several canes had climbed around the porch posts and had reached 10-12 feet.

This post was edited by phoebe368 on Mon, Apr 8, 13 at 17:29

Well, now, that photo captures just how yellow it is very well, Phoebe. Not "yellow", like Snowbird, Etoile de Lyon, or Burnaby but YELLOW, like Alexander Hill Gray or Sir Henry Seagrave (neither of whose leaves seem to match the ones on this rose). ~ Debbie

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This post was edited by phoebe368 on Mon, Apr 8, 13 at 20:58

Just found this old thread and wanted to ask:
Did anyone ever identify this rose or root any cuttings? It's beautiful!

Melody

I'd like to know, as well. It really does seem to be too yellow to be 'Snowbird.'

It is so gorgeous! We NEED to know! Susan

Any ID yet?

I don't know, but what ever it is, I'd love to grow it. I do hope that HoovB was able to propagate it.

Franz Deegan surely looks similar, Christopher.

I bet this would do well in FL too. I hope it can be rescued.

If it is a Tea, and not an early HT, I wonder if it might be 'Belle Lyonnaise'? It was listed in the California Nursery Co. catalogue- though not described- in 1888. Other California nurseries may have sold it...?

Virginia

Most likely, Virginia. There were no patents or other restrictions against selling anything you wished to add to your catalog. The only way to restrict something so it was exclusive was to not release any material from it.