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| Hi folks, I've made a new bed for some roses, bit it's in a bit of a tricky spot. It's west facing, and receives full sun from about 10.30am until late afternoon/evening in spring, and runs along a wire fence that is about 1.5 metres (5 foot) tall. It's about 4.5 metres (14 foot) long and 1.2 metres (4 foot) deep. I want to plant Mme Isaac Periere at one end, with Mme Ernest Calvat in the middle, and I ordered Cl. SDLM for the other end. But now I think about it, the end I had planned for Cl. SDLM gets a bit less sun than the rest of the bed - perhaps nearer to 4 hours - so I'm thinking she may not be suitable for that spot. Does anyone think otherwise? Or any suggestions for a blush pink short climber that repeats and tolerates shade? I'm thinking Blush Noisette might work (added bonus that it's not too thorny, as I have a tap in that spot that I use a fair bit). I also have Heritage on order that might work? Or perhaps even Kathleen Harrop - but I think her blooms may be a bit too close in colour to Mme Ernest Calvat. Suggestions and insights welcome! |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by muscovyduckling 10 (My Page) on Sat, May 10, 14 at 1:53
| Whoops, forgot to say I'm in Australia. Approx equivalent USDA zone 8 or 9. |
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| This was a 3 gallon Blush Noisette bought and planted March 2012. She's on the south side of a fence, gets very partial sunlight throughout the day. I have a wire trellis, running through eye bolts, to which the canes are tied with jute twine. The darker pink on the right is Louise Odier, who was a 1 gallon pot bought and planted at the same time, who is finally getting large enough to tie up to the trellis... The picture is crap and the blooms are fuzzed out, but the top of the fence is 6 ft tall, and it absolutely bakes during the summer, even with the extensive partial shade it gets. Hopefully this gives you an idea of what it can do! Melinda |
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- Posted by bellegallica_zone9 9 (My Page) on Sat, May 10, 14 at 16:54
| Congrats on the new bed. I ordered Blush Noisette from a nursery that advertised it as being nearly thornless. The band I received has quite a few thorns on all the canes. HMF describes it as "armed with thorns" so I don't know where the thornless ones are coming from. I've heard conflicting reports about BN. Some say it's thorny, others not so much. Either there are several different BNs out there, or it's one of those that is thorny lower down, but gets smoother near the top? Or the canes vary? I'm not sure. Maybe others will chime in on that topic. I have mine growing in a good bit of shade for most of the day. It only gets sun for about 3-4 hours later in the afternoon. So far it seems happy, growing nicely with buds. But it's just a band right now. I need to pot it up ASAP, though, now that I think about it. Good luck with yours! |
This post was edited by bellegallica_zone9 on Sat, May 10, 14 at 20:31
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| You mentioned that the roses get quite a bit of sun in the spring; would that also hold true for summer? If so, that seems quite a bit of harsh sun for most roses. I have SdlM which gets afternoon shade and another that gets afternoon sun, and it's amazing how badly the one in afternoon sun performs compared to the other one. In a hot-summer climate roses facing west have a really hard time. Their preference is really for morning and early afternoon sun and late afternoon/evening shade, or at least that's been my experience. Madame Isaac Pereire especially may frizzle in the heat, I'm afraid. Both she and her sport, Mme. Ernest Calvat, are rather prone to disease, although I've never grown either one, so that's only hearsay. Ingrid |
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- Posted by muscovyduckling 10 (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 14 at 0:07
| Thank you Melinda, BelleGallica and Ingrid for your replies. Melinda - your BN is looking fabulous! Well done! And Belle Gallica, yes, I do find the reports about thorny-ness and notoriously unreliable. Another rose I've ordered - Cl. Devoniensis - has been described as 'almost thorn free' as well as 'a thorny devil', so I guess I'll just have to wait and see. Although lack of thorns would be a bonus, the most important things for me in this space would be colour, repeat and fragrance, as it's a fairly prominent spot in my yard. Ingrid - thanks for your input regarding summer exposure. The spot I have in mind for MIP and MEC will receive a lot of sun in summer too, but I've found that bourbons in my yard (well, to be fair, I only have one bourbon - Kathleen Harrop) need plenty of sun to overcome disease, mainly powdery mildew. I don't know how my climate compares to yours, but I live in an elevated location with average summer temps of between 70 and 80 degrees F in summer, with only about 3 weeks worth of days in the 100s. We also get about 12 days of rain each month over summer, with yearly rainfall between 1000-1500mm (40-60 inches) per year. Which is great for my water bill, but it can also lead to disease. So I know some of the blooms will crisp during the really hot periods, but I think overall a sunnier site for mildew-y roses would be preferable. What do you think? |
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- Posted by PortlandMysteryRose 8 (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 14 at 17:20
| Muscovy, if it's any help, I've grown Blush Noisette in partial shade and she's done quite well. My climate is cloudier, wetter and cooler, of course, so I'm guessing that there should be no problem with growing BN in partial shade in any part of Australia. Bonus: partial shade means the blooms remain a little more blush (as opposed to white) and they last a bit longer. Bourbons: I've grown them here and in North Texas (long, hot summers!). In N Texas, I grew them in partial shade as Ingrid does. For your somewhat cooler Aussie climate, I recommend full sun. I also recommend good air circulation (not smack against anything) and moderate water or a even a bit more once established. Carol in Portland, OR |
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- Posted by muscovyduckling Australia (My Page) on Sun, May 11, 14 at 20:19
| Thanks Carol, looks like BN might be the winner. Now I'll have to think of another spot for SDLM. Ahh, first world problems! Thanks everyone. |
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| muscovy, I have the obviously mistaken idea that Australia is mostly hot and dry, not taking into account what a huge country it is with all sorts of variations in climate. Your summer temperatures sound like heaven to me, not to mention the rain. I don't think you'll have a problem with that temperature range. We're supposed to reach 102 degrees this week so my input is obviously inappropriate for your area. I wish now that I had planted more SdlM; that rose loves to bloom and lends such presence to a garden. Ingrid |
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- Posted by muscovyduckling 10 (My Page) on Tue, May 13, 14 at 0:04
| Hehe, thanks Ingrid for your input. Central and Western Australia is indeed hot and dry, and I think these parts are often the most heavily marketed in terms of tourism, as they appear in a lot of nostalgic Australian art and poetry, which seems to romanticise 'the outback' and 'the rugged bush', and incorporate a liberal sprinkling of men who shear sheep. We don't have a whole lot of cultural history here, so we have to make it up a bit, and that is what we came up with. Ho hum. After all that, I've decided to re-arrange the beds a little bit so that MIP can have a bit of shade after 3pm, so as not to totally crispify all her blooms in summer (thanks Ingrid). I'll move her to a deeper bed where foreground planting can hide her (inevitably) bare legs, and she can live next to MEC and SDLM. So in this original area I think I'll substitute her with Abe Darby, with Heritage next to Abe, and perhaps Aimee Vibert next to Heritage in the shadier end. Apparently Aimee is a god one for shade, and not very thorny. What say you to that, good people? |
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- Posted by melissa_thefarm NItaly (My Page) on Tue, May 13, 14 at 0:22
| I enjoyed your comments on Australian culture and self-image. About the roses, nothing to add, except that I do like 'Blush Noisette'. |
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- Posted by muscovyduckling 10 (My Page) on Tue, May 13, 14 at 1:04
| Me too Melissa, I'm going to order it for the opposite wall, which is also partly shaded, along with Sophie's Perpetual and Reine des Violettes, I think. |
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| muscovy, I also enjoyed your take on culture in the old outback. As for Abraham Darby, it's such a beautiful rose but does cause problems for some people in terms of rust and blackspot (me among them). When I had it in the sun it fried and in more shade it did the above. The newer Austins are supposedly more disease resistant, although I don't know what they allow you to have there. I've read here that some of the desirable new ones aren't available for you. Heritage looks very pretty but I understand the flowers shatter very quickly. Just something for you to consider and ignore if you wish. Good luck with your new plan! Ingrid |
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- Posted by muscovyduckling 10 (My Page) on Tue, May 13, 14 at 20:29
| Ahh, I can't win! But realistically, I will probably end up digging up and moving half my roses a year or two down the track anyway, so I think I just won't get too hung up on it for now. No point trying to be a control freak when it comes to things that are alive. I guess I'll just see how it goes. I wonder how much time is invested into detailed garden plans that end up getting scrapped after they haven't turned out how we imagined? Although I suppose that's how some of the best gardening happens, too. Thanks to everyone for your input, though!very much appreciated :) |
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