I assume the answer I'm looking for will be Cramoisi Superieur, Louis Phillipe, or Ragged Robbin, but what are your best reds for those who deal with rust?

I have personally never really been moved by any red china in person. I don't know what it is, but they just don't appeal to me a whole lot. I do like Archduke Charles but that's more a pink-red blend. What besides the red chinas -which are supposed to be great here- might succeed in a rust and mildew prone environment?

I can't grow European once bloomers or Rugosas and most reds amongst HPs, Bourbons, and Portlands seem to be plagued with mildew and/or rust from reputation. I don't mind a failure or two, but I don't like just slowly killing a plant not meant to be here.

I very much like the color red that General Gallieni finishes in this area, which is surprisingly dark red. GG is a blend though, so I'm looking for a true red. I have a solidly medium to dark red color in mind. I don't mind reds that have a tendency to blue or appear purplish at times.

I'm aware that Prospero might do well here. I wouldn't mind something that would benefit from fanning out in the long run.

Thanks for your help.

Jay

Here is a pic of mine:

I really do recommend 'Ragged Robin,' and 'Louis Philppe' -- both excellent here.

Also 'Prospero' (though it's not "old", and it is a purple-red) and 'Lady Ann Kidwell,' which is more cerise, I suppose.

My newly planted band of Rhode Island Red or Fields of the Wood, is a wonderful bright currant red and looks like it will be vigorous, but it is just a new band.

On the other hand rugosas are very easy for me to grow, as are once-blooming European roses, hybrid perpetuals, portlands, bourbons, and species. I garden much differently though than many southern Californian rose gardeners. I have a low water garden (filled with many native California plants), fertilize sparingly if at all (diluted fish emulsion mostly), and rarely mulch. I allow the roses to go dormant by not fertilizing after the middle of summer and watering very little in the fall and into winter. The classes of roses I grow thrive under this treatment, while other classes can't handle it at all.

I grow 2 older, but not antique, red hybrid teas that like the hot dry conditions here, Cl. Crimson Glory and Oklahoma. My best performing red hybrid perpetuals are Comtesse O'Gorman and Directeur Alphand. Henry Nevard has done well for me as well.

Melissa

My neighbor Luanne grows 'Souvenir de Dr. Jamain' in her no spray garden, it has a really nice fragrance too. I ordered it years ago but was sent 'Iceberg' by mistake.

Lux

Having said that, serious rust is pretty much a problem everywhere here on the west coast of the United States. They don't see very much of it in the rest of the country. So, you could move east and worry about rampant blackspot instead!
;-)

In my garden I have not seen much rust if any on Cl Crimson Glory or Barcelona/Francis Dubreuil. Oklahoma mostly just gets it in the fall. Bardou Job is pretty good; no scent though. Prospero was pretty but in my experience feeble. Chevy Chase is vigorous and healthy, but no scent and a once bloomer.

Then there is Jacob's Ladder. Jacob's Ladder is extremely healthy, though very modern in appearance, also no scent, and I don't know if it is commercially available anywhere. I will tell you that when it is in full bloom almost all visitors make a beeline for that plant and bypass roses I consider very entrancing. People seem to just love it. It is possible that I own the last plant, even though it is not very old. I've never seen if elsewhere.

I wish you good luck with your quest.

Folly

FIRST -- It's really weenie on its own roots.

SECOND -- More vigorous, budded -- but treat it as you would a China. Deadhead GENTLY, and avoid all pruning but for removal of dead canes.
Treated that way, it will grow to a bushy 4 ft. or slightly less, and bloom like mad.

I would love to try a HP and may in the future, but Francis Dubreuil seems like a pretty popular pick. I'm going to make an order from Burling in the Fall and it's worth thinking about adding on a budded FD for 2015/2016 delivery.

Jay

Melissa

If that is the case, who knows whether what we have now is really what they had then?

I could see myself with one of Cramoisi Superieur, Louis Phillipe, or Ragged Robin just because they would be so clean here in the long run. Nevertheless, I would be one happy camper if I could grow a clean, regularly blooming specimen of Souvenir du Docteur Jamain or Baron Girod de l'Ain.

Jay

Jay

" . . . 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wished."

Jeri, it was my understanding that it was found in California as "Alcatraz Red Climber" but was afterwards identified as Bardou Job. I was not aware that there was any question about its identity, but perhaps I am missing something. Patricia Cavallo of Amis des Roses Nabonnand asked me for a photo of mine, which I sent to her a while ago via FB. I never heard back from her, so I don't know what she thought of it.

Rosefolly

Diane

Jay

*** *** If a rose is FOUND, we can guess, or guess with some certainty, what it is.

We can't be CERTAIN, unless we can compare it to another one, or unless DNA testing can guarantee it.

That's why we have found roses, once thought to be "Historic Rose A," which were later thought to be, instead, "Historic Rose B."

And so, we have scholarly arguments about identities.
Or we just say -- "OK. That name's as good as any." (And how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?)

I'm not arguing that a rose one of is is growing is, or is not, 'Bardou Job.' I'm just saying that, with any Found rose, there is room for uncertainty.

"May be . . . " "Thought to be . . . " "Believed to be . . . " "Is probably . . . " "Appears to be . . . "

I put it out of its misery for the crime of mildewing beyond belief, despite being sprayed regularly with a rotating arsenal of chemicals.

Souv. du Docteur Jamain was not a full-time mildewer, and was incredibly fragrant. (We won the "most fragrant" award with it at a District Convention.)

It was, however, a weak grower from the start. We didn't realize, until we removed it that it had come to us with a crippling infestation of root gall. Without that handicap, it might have fared better.

But, by that time, we had learned that we were always going to be more likely to succeed with Teas, Chinas, and Noisettes than with any of the Hybrid Perpetuals.