Susan, while polling the readers here is interesting, I'm afraid it's very likely to leave you even more confused than you feel right now. Very few of us perceive the same scent the same way. There seems to be more variation between noses than commonalities.

I know people who swear they can smell a very strong, sweet scent from Tropicana, while most I know swear it is scentless, as it is to my nose. I am bewildered by the claims of "rich, Tea scent" as to MY nose that is Orthene and clean Tupperware. I detect a nearly over powering scent of hot cinnamon, as intense a scent as the taste of the candy Red Hots from Cardinal Hume and Purple Buttons, yet I know folks who can't detect anything from them. I had to wait until I turned fifty to know what the taste of ripe raspberries is. Even now, some years later, I go through periods of them tasting and smelling sweet, and those where they remain "green and wet".

A middle school science teacher friend did an experiment with his classes for years having them taste these test strips with a bitter tasting chemical on them. It tests for the gene which allows you to taste bitter tastes. It shows heredity in families and allows kids to see how it works in their own. Unfortunately, it also unearthed a few secrets which were hoped to remain buried, but it points out how, even though we are all very similar, we remain quite different in our sensory perceptions.

My suggestion for building your scent library would be to look up the accepted names for the scents of your roses. I'm sure that information is readily available from HMF, catalogs on line and in print, as well as traditional rose books. If you categorize your garden list by scents, you can train your nose to detect which is supposed to be what so when someone posts they detect this or that scent, you have an idea what they are perceiving. You can then, also, inquire what your various roses smell like to them to qualify their olfactory response and compare how theirs work to yours.

I am sure among your 200 plus roses, you should be able to research the specific scents of most of them fairly easily. I think it will surprise you how many are reported to have the same scent, even though they appear quite different to your nose. Kim

Thanks, Kim. Now I understand a bit better why it hasn't been easier to "get" in the first place, and your approach is a really good one. At the Celebration in El Cerrito on Sunday I found myself gravitating to the vase with Leander in it and asking my two companions to come and see if they agreed with me that it had a "Tea scent". Now I will have to go and see if that's how it is described at HMF.

Then I will print out a list of my roses with their indicated smells and see if I can identify them the same way. Very very good suggestion.

But not today. We are in our second consecutive day of full rain -- highly unusual for May in Northern CA but definitely not conducive to smelling roses.

On the other hand, I have been trying for years to figure out whether my failed espresso shots are sour (brewed too cold) or bitter (brewed too hot)....with little success.

Susan

Interesting addenda. I just started looking at each of the roses in my plant list on HMF, and while the description usually says "mild" or "strong" or "no" fragrance, there does not tend to be any description of the flavor of the fragrance. Guess I will have to throw my net out a bit farther to gather that descriptive bit of information on each of them.

Maybe the nursery descriptions (Vintage, Rogue Valley, etc)and/or Paul Barden's old rose site will help.

Today we had a nice cold front and I went outside to smell my Natchitoches Noisette. I've had this rose three years or so and I've smelled it before but I guess not on a fresh bloom in the morning on a cool day. Wow! It doesn't even have a "rose" smell at all, but a very nice sweet ? scent. I looked it up online and apparently this is the myrrh scent I've heard so much about. It isn't anything like I thought it would smell.

Here's an old GW thread about Myrrh scent in roses if you are interested.

Here is a link that might be useful: more about myrrh scent

It may help to think of myrrh as strong licorice. Most of what many people call "musk" is actually multiflora. Hybrid Musk roses are so far removed from anything actually "musk" and have so much multiflora in them, it's that scent you detect. Secret Garden is more "musk", and it's nothing like any "musk" scent I've ever detected from a Hybrid Musk. Kim

I just went out and dodged raindrops and brought a bunch of blooms back in the house to re-smell: Tamora, Norwich Castle, Geranium Red, IXL, Louise Odier, Renae, Maiden's Blush, Kathleen Harrop and two mysteries....

Now to let them warm up a bit (and me too) and go on with my sniffing.....This is fun.

Susan

Tamora should have the myrrh scent. Geranium Red is a VERY sharp geranium (pelargonium) scent with some sweet to it. I adore that scent! Add it to Fragrant Cloud and you have "blow your sinuses from your head" fragrance! Kim

What is the scent of Souvenir de la Malmaison called?

Do you know what the strongest scent of all the blooms that I picked in the chilly late afternoon drizzle? I.X.L. I don't know that I like the scent (I think it reminds me of cheap dishwashing liquid) but it certainly is strong.

My favorites from the first batch above were: Maiden's Blush, Kathleen Harrop and Louise Odier (the latter two being almost identical). They have a deep soft comforting smell that I find entirely welcoming. And Renae's scent was the most different from the others -- peppery maybe.

This is a new way for me to be appreciating the roses and how they are related. I will try not to bore you all with all of my sniffs and snorts....

Susan

This reminds me of the Berkeley days - "if a tree falls in the forest..." Everyone perceives so differently. I'm sitting in my cubicle preparing for a late work night, with my daily bouquet of roses on my desk. In the group are two of my favorite scented HT's - Chrysler Imperial and Blue Girl. Their scents are quite different but I don't know how to formally describe - other than both are wonderful - CI with a rich deep - to me "formal rose" scent, and BG a happy / cheery scent. Really weird - Fragrant Cloud smells like - well, BO (body odor) to me! I don't like the smell at all, but understand it is heaven to others...

I thought I posted this link earlier in the thread, but apparently not. Your mention of Chrysler Imperial reminded me to go and look for it again, because the author says that CI is one of only a few roses whose fragrance seems to be "immune to the vagaries of weather".

Here is a link that might be useful: Rose Fragrances

One of the smells I remember best is that of Spice, the Bermuda mystery rose. In the spring it exudes pepper fragrance; then as the weather changes, warms, days lengthen, I don't know ... it smells like grapefruit, a delicious citrus smell that I love.

A number of the chinas smell of pepper to me, but that's the only rose that I've smelled that alters so much.

That rose did well in the southeast and is doing well now also in my current PNW garden. I can't wait until it blooms! Gean

If your library has "100 Old Roses for the American Garden" by Clair G. Martin, you should check it out. He lists the various roses, with photo on facing page, along with description, hybridizer, suitability, availability, stature & habit, FRAGRANCES, uses, parentage, diseases, hardiness, and bloom (spring, flushes, etc,). He also gets quite carried away, in the informational paragraphs, about the scent of some of the roses, e.g.: 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' "has a panoply of fragrance - from a touch of cold cream to the strongest odor of freshly peeled peaches to a lighter rose attar".

I asked this same question a few years ago and was told that Chrysler Imperial has the Damask scent. The tea roses I grow vary from faint to mild mostly, and to me are reminiscent of the smell of tea leaves. It's not exactly the same though. I just opened a canister of Lipton tea bags, and that wasn't it. I know there are varieties of tea. Some tea roses have a "plain tea" scent to me, meaning a dry smell of tea leaves. Others are sweet. To me Duchesse de Brabant smells exactly like southern sweet iced tea with no fruitiness. Mrs B R Cant smells of strong sweet raspberry tea. The China, Louis Philippe, can smell peppery but most often like cherry candy. Clotilde Soupert to me has a sophisticated fragrance like a good ladies' perfume, but I don't know what the fragrance is. I took a whiff of Mme Abel Chatenay recently and definitely got the dry tea leaves scent. SDLM is quite faint to me - maybe because of when I'm smelling it which is rarely in the cool early morning - and I can see why some say it's like ladies' face powder.

Interesting subject, Susan.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

FYI, there are over 400 chemical compounds that produce the scents in roses and these get combined in hundreds of way. So, add that the the differences in nose receptors and it's astonishing that we agree as much as we do.

"a touch of cold cream to the strongest odor of freshly peeled peaches to a lighter rose attar"

Um, I didn't get any of that from Souvenir de la Malmaison. I guess the individual's nose has a lot to do with the smell of a rose.

This thread is turning out to be even more interesting than I had expected when I started it. I thought that I was just missing some bit of information that would make it all clear. Now I see that it is a very subjective subject. I think that makes it much more interesting. I have a table covered with solitary blooms from yesterday and I keep going back and checking the scent on them to see how they change and I keep checking this thread to see what smells everyone else associates with roses I might be able to compare. Thanks everyone for your additions to my experience.

Susan

KIM SAID:
"Secret Garden is more "musk", and it's nothing like any "musk" scent I've ever detected from a Hybrid Musk. Kim"

*** Kim, you're right. Even after years of allergies, the scent I detect most easily is the Musk of Secret Garden Musk Climber and of Blush Noisette and its various offshoots. To me, that fragrance is rich, and strong, and carries on the air, with elements of honey and spices, and ripe fruit.
R. brunonii, which was mistaken in commerce for R. moschata for a long time -- that fragrance, to me, is much the same.

I can smell most of the Hybrid Musks, too though. It's not the same, but it's a related fragrance, or so it seems to me.

It's the Damask-y fragrances I lose (which is OK, because most roses with that fragrance mildew here) and I can't smell most Teas. But I actually ENJOYED recently smelling a "foetida-thing" which was just like a freshly-opened can of linseed oil!

Jeri

Susan, Once I had the idea of going to Roses Unlimited's garden and smelling blooms that were said to have certain scents--not unlike Kim's idea. At the time I could go, not much was blooming in the garden and not all the roses in the greenhouse had a pronounced fragrance. So my idea didn't work out quite like I'd hoped. I did, however, figure out what the myrrh fragrance is and the damask fragrance. If you're near some gardens, you could try my experiment there with roses that you don't grow. I enjoyed my learning experience. I think you will, too.

What is the scent of Souvenir de la Malmaison called?

I call it "heavenly".

There are people out there who have really talented noses and can get jobs in the perfume industry as a result. Chefs are also often people who can sniff something and tell you what scent it is.

My DH can sniff any kind of cooked dish and list what ingredients are in it. I can hand him a rose and say, "What does this smell like?" and he will say something like "Lemon with pepper, anise, and apple."

I have to then go get a lemon, apple juice, and some pepper and anise from the kitchen and sniff them separately, then sniff the rose, and he'll be right! Some people's noses can do this. Not mine!

What fun!
I totally get it that some folks' schnozzes smell aromas more acutely than others. (I am on the less sensitive end of the sniffing spectrum myself.)
What blows me away, however, is how the same rose smells completely different to two different people. Lots of people love the scent of the white HT Full Sail. To me it smells not of baby powder, but like an escapee from those ghastly air fresheners in the restrooms at the Port Authority Bus Terminal. Give me Francis Dubreuil, however, and I could walk around with him grafted to my face for hours on end.

K

Let's REALLY throw a stick in the spokes...I remember reading an article on fragrance quite a few years ago which spoke of a particular rose (whose name escapes me) which began as Damask scent, but as the oils and alcohols heated and evaporated, left lemon then orris scents. As has already been added, there are hundreds of chemicals PLUS varying combinations of them present in many rose blossoms. Which is expressed depends upon heat, light, temperature, humidity and changes as each of those variables change. Add to that the variations possible with human olfactory responses, plus temporary variations due to allergies, medications, recently eaten, drunk or smelled tastes/scents and you can have tremendous variations in scent. To compare scents between noses, you really do have to have all the noses smell the same flower, in the same place at the same time. Try it. Smell the same flowers in your garden several times on the same day, throughout the day and notice the differences. Not only in intensity as the oils and alcohols evaporate due to temperature, UV and humidity, but to how they age or evolve with time.

Hoovb, I've usually driven people nuts with my descriptions, too. Only mine are most often, "this smells exactly like that tastes" because taste and scent aren't just related in my head, they are often the same. Things taste "green" or smell green. I'll smell something elsewhere and it will conjure up an unrelated scent of something else.

An old friend used to keep a pot of Ralph Moore's Chick-a-Dee so he could walk around with it under his nose. He said that way, everything in his garden had good scents! Kim

To my nose, La France smells like lemons and damask. Francis Dubreuil is spicy damask. Blush Noisette like cloves. Clotilde Soupert a bit like wine flavored damask. Duchesse de Brabant like raspberries.

Will my Grafin Esterhazy ever bloom so I can smell its "moderate scent"?!!!!

Good thing we have Outkast to simplify it all for us:

"lean a little bit closer, see
roses really smell like poo poo poo-oo!"

While looking about the Vintage Gardens site, I found the Fall 2010 Vintage Gardens Newsletter which contains an article on fragrance with mostly older roses used as examples. (Note that it is in PDF).

Here is a link that might be useful: Fall 2010 Vintage Gardens Newsletter

Thank you, Sandandsun, for that article. There are two scents I love the most: 1) Firefighter hybrid tea, it smells like rose water perfume - I wonder if there are other rose smells like that.

2) Austin rose Eglantyne. It's the best smelling out of over 1,000 bush at the rose park. I suspect Eglantyne has Rugosa parentage, since its bloom-form looks very similar to one particular Rugosa. Eglantyne hates my alkaline soil. In the alkaline rose park, it gives at best 5 blooms in the spring flush.

If you know any other roses smell like the above, please inform. Thank you.

What a fascinating discussion.

And useful too. It prompted me to search & find an internet copy of a book called "Roses for Dummies" (just the thing for me). Chapter 3 "Rose Fragrance" contains a lot of what seems to me clear basic stuff about fragrance classification and more.

I'm very new to rose growing, and my prime consideration is visual (colour & shape), but I's blessed & cursed with an extremely keen sense of smell (and taste - the two are indeed inseparable). In my experience (including my scant experience with roses) scents & smells change depending on the time of day, on whether one just had a shower, on one's state of health, on one's age, on what one had for breakfast/lunch & on a myriad other factors & combination of factors.

So i think it's not just a question of varying personal taste, but also a matter of the constant flux that is still labelled as one and the same person (apologies for waxing phylosophical in the morning).

Here is a link that might be useful: Roses for Dummies

Last summer I tried a new way to determine rose scents that seems to work. We have a small sliver of a half-bathroom. I put a few roses of one type in, leave the light on, and shut the door. Come back 2-3 hours later and breath.
This system has helped me define how I detect the different scents. Interestingly my husband and one of our neighbors have different experiences with the same rose scents.
If you dont have a small bathroom, perhaps a closet might work... could surely make the linens smell lovely.
This is certainly a fascinating thread.
Jeannie

Have read recently that women "of a certain age" smell like asparagus! Surely not that indignity on top of all the others concomitant with old age.

(Could not resist this as a quirky footnote to this post on scents.)

Cath

I guess thats why tea roses are called tea, because they smell like it. I always wondered that.

My grandma had candles made for her in a rose scent and to me it smelled like peonies. I had peonies but my boyfriend mowed them down but I think that most rose scent that I smell in stores smell like peonies.