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| How do you tell the difference between a basil break and a sucker coming from the rootstock--short of digging up the rose to see where it is coming from, I mean? I'm guessing--basil break comes directly from the base of the rose--about where the buried graft would be? Whereas rootstock suckering pops up about a foot away from the rose? What I've got is an Austin Mortimer Sackler, about 5 years old, grafted (probably on Dr. Huey since I probably ordered it directly from DA). Morty has been a very healthy and vigorous tall bush--but poor Morty is looking rather pathetic after the brutal winter we went through. He is the only rose in my garden that is having trouble recuperating--some blooms, but they droop a bit dispiritedly (but it has been really windy the past couple days, so maybe that is the reason). Anyway, Morty had a number of big canes turn brown; other canes put out some green leaves that rather promptly turned pale--nearly pale yellow in some cases. As a whole, Morty isn't looking that good--but he is still trying and hasn't given up and some of the blooms are looking quite normal. And there are a couple of new canes that look real healthy and have lots of buds on them. What I have a question about is the two little clumps of growth--one about a foot in front of Morty, the other about a foot to the right side of Morty. I'm thinking the clumps are a response to the not-so-thriving condition of Morty as a whole, but I'm not sure if it is a good response or a bad one. In other words, how do I determine if the clumps are more Morty growing there or Dr. Huey trying to take over? Do I just have to wait until the clumps form buds and then bloom? If it's Dr. Huey, I'd rather rip it out right away. Advice? Any input is appreciated. Kate |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Rootstock suckers can come from the middle of the plant, and scion shoots can come from farther away. Basically you look really carefully at the leaves and thorns, comparing with scion shoots of similar age. More than leaf size, look at leaf serration and gloss, color of new and mature leaves, leaflet shape. If you are unsure and don't want to dig, wait two months from the onset of the shoot and see if it has a flower bud. |
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- Posted by malcolm_manners 9b C. Fla. (My Page) on Wed, May 21, 14 at 15:03
| Basal breaks come from above the graft, and their leaves should look like those of the scion variety. Rootstock suckers come from below the graft, and while they MAY be away from the main plant, they often do come up right next to it, just as do basal breaks. So if you plant the rose with the union buried, it may be a bit of a challenge to tell for sure. Depending on your scion variety, the leaves of a rootstock sucker will often look quite different from those of the scion. 'Dr. Huey' will be more like the scion than would multiflora or Fortuniana, but still, often sufficiently different to recognize that it is not the same rose. Check leaflet shape (long and pointed? round? strongly serrated edges?) and color of the new growth (green? copper? purple? yellowish?) for comparison. |
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| Well, Malcolm, perfect overlapping both in time-stamp and in content! |
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| Well, this is fine--two knowledgeable posters posting almost at the same moment. I appreciate how promptly you two responded. It's raining right now, so I will have to wait until tomorrow, but I just remembered where I saw a Dr. Huey put out a bud back in a corner by the house. I'll take a couple twiglets from it, plus a couple twiglets from Morty and sit down in front of those growths until I'm sure which twiglets they match. Thank you for the information. If I determine that the growths are Dr. Huey, what do I do? Dig up the whole plant and put in a new one? Or can I somehow just dig up the Dr. Huey part and leave Morty to do his thing? I seem to remember it is rather hard to get rid of Dr. Huey--which is why I have a stray one with a bloom over in the corner--it has been dug up several times--and a couple years later always faithfully returns. Kate |
This post was edited by dublinbay on Wed, May 21, 14 at 15:54
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- Posted by malcolm_manners 9b C. Fla. (My Page) on Wed, May 21, 14 at 17:30
| Kate, just dig down to where the sucker attaches to the main plant and cut (or even better, break) it off at that point, leaving no stub (which would resprout immediately). No need to remove the whole plant. |
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| I've only had it happen once before but I did what Malcolm said and tore it off and it never returned. So I'd give that a try first before giving up on Morty. |
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| Kate probably knows this, but I should have clarified in my post that a new shoot of Dr. Huey (or multiflora or canina) will not set flower buds until next season, after it has gone through a winter. A new shoot of a repeating bush or shrub rose will set a bud usually within two months. |
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| Well, I finally found enough free time to go out and check the new growth against a Dr. Huey sample and a Morty sample--and it seems to be Dr. Huey! I'm not real good at discerning minor differences in leaves, etc., but Morty's leaves seem to be a tiny bit more elongated and Dr. Huey's leaves seem to be a bit more roundish or have a fuller width (I'm not sure how to say that). Morty's leaves also seem to be spaced slightly wider and to be a tab bit lighter green (not sure if that last one is a definitive trait or not). The differences are really slight, but I'm going with Dr. Huey. I'll go out early in the morning before the heat returns (it has suddenly become quite hot here!) and rip off Dr. Huey from Morty's roots, as Malcolm and Seil advise. The one thing I'm wondering about is the new growth in front of Morty doesn't look quite like the Dr. Huey growth to the side of Morty, but neither does the front growth look like Morty. It is a lovely burgundy red dark green growth--but again, I don't know if color is that significant. The shape and spacing of the leaves looks more like Dr. Huey than like Morty--so I'm assuming the front growth is Dr. Huey also. And thanks, Michael, for the clarification. I did understand the point you were making, but I'd rather you take the time to clarify rather than assume--while I go off blithely and do the wrong thing! LOL Thank you, everybody, for the help. Kate |
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| New foliage of Dr. Huey is quite reddish. Again, if you are not sure, wait till the other roses all have buds and see if the suspicious shoot has one. |
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| if it doesn't bloom this year, it's rootstock. |
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