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'Jaune Desprez' and "Secret Garden Musk Climber" -- dead?

Posted by AquaEyes 7 New Brunswick, NJ (My Page) on
Wed, May 7, 14 at 14:32

I already knew I was doing a little zone-pushing with these two, but I wasn't expecting the most severe Winter in years to come after planting these as bands last Summer. Both had to be cut down to almost ground level to remove brown-centered canes.

JD attempted to leaf out a few weeks ago when I left his canes at about 3' tall, but those leaflets soon shriveled, and prompted me to cut further down.

SGMC had to be cut back to the mulch-line, but scraping it away when it started warming up, I noticed that there were some green canes.

So both now have green but leafless canes only a few inches in length from the soil line. Everything else has leafed out and even has flower buds forming.

Should I assume these two are goners and order replacements now? I'd be getting the same two again, only this time making sure to offer more protection if we get another crazy Winter next year -- and starting with gallon plants for more of a head-start.

:-)

~Christopher


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: 'Jaune Desprez' and "Secret Garden Musk Climber" -- dead?

If they were mine I would leave them alone to recuperate and grow roots. I would not feed them, or spray them, I would just make sure they get adequate water, protection from critters, and perhaps some shade cloth protection from too hot sun. Patience is a virtue.

Jackie


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RE: 'Jaune Desprez' and "Secret Garden Musk Climber" -- dead?

I have over fifty roses, most had to be cut to the ground , but had leaves coming from the roots,and a few didn't even have that. After waiting a few days most have begun to grow from the roots. most of the canes were black or brown: dead! So I would give them a bit longer to see if they are alive, have you been having frosts at night? I am in Ohio and we had some nights in winter that were down to -22 degrees. Lately it had been in the 40's or 50's but we still could have a frost.
roseberri


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RE: 'Jaune Desprez' and "Secret Garden Musk Climber" -- dead?

  • Posted by AquaEyes 7 New Brunswick, NJ (My Page) on
    Wed, May 7, 14 at 21:13

Thanks for the encouragement, but I decided to add a backup gallon plant of "Secret Garden Musk Climber" to my Roses Unlimited order. If they had 'Jaune Desprez' I'd have added that as well. I'm afraid that even if they do get going, whatever growth they put on won't have enough time to ripen before Winter, and even if we go back to one of the "normal" Winters here, I might be back to square one again next year.

So, I'll keep watching them for now, but I'll likely dig them up and put them in pots. I'll put the new gallon-sized SGMC in the ground, and see if I can get the old one and JD growing again. They'll be put in my unheated enclosed back porch for Winter, and I'll decide what to do with them next year. If it turns out that JD bit the dust, I'll be on the lookout for a gallon replacement for that as well. And for next Winter, both will get their canes wrapped -- it was heartbreaking to cut JD back so severely after one cane reached 6' into the tree.

:-)

~Christopher


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RE: 'Jaune Desprez' and "Secret Garden Musk Climber" -- dead?

  • Posted by AquaEyes 7 New Brunswick, NJ (My Page) on
    Thu, May 8, 14 at 11:41

Patience is a virtue which I apparently need to further cultivate.

During the pause between the rains, I went out to plant three roses I received yesterday from Heirloom. When finished, I went around the garden inspecting things, and found one swelling bud on "Secret Garden Musk Climber". Of course, between the two this is the one for which I just ordered a replacement yesterday. So for 'Jaune Desprez' I'll hold out on ordering a replacement a bit longer.

I'm thinking that while the thick layer of mulch I put down protected the lower growth, it's also slowing down the warming-up of the soil, so maybe that's why these two are taking so long to send growth from below. Or maybe SGMC found out about my plan to put in a replacement and finally decided to wake up.

In any case, I'll keep the SGMC I have coming as a back-up, and if I still see no signs of life from JD by June, I'll order a replacement. I wonder if I should still dig up SGMC and nurse it along in a pot, and put the gallon-plant I have coming in the ground -- then the original would be my back-up. Thoughts?

:-)

~Christopher


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RE: 'Jaune Desprez' and "Secret Garden Musk Climber" -- dead?

For my two cents, I'd leave SGMC in the ground and reward it for its tenacity. By coming back after a colder-than usual winter, it's telling you it has put down nice root systems and is ready to start putting out some growth. Digging it up would at least delay that process, and if it can handle the most recent winter, it sounds like a keeper. Climbers are tricky to try to grow in pots, as they may sulk and not grow up as vigorously if they can't spread out their roots. You can of course grow climbers in a big enough pot, but it sounds like it's reasonably happy where it is.

Even though it's not rated for my zone, I have a 3-year-old SGMC that survived my cold zone 5 winter with no snow, and it even has some surviving cane (which is more than 90% of the roses in my yard). In my zone, it's still an open question as to whether it will ever have enough cane to climb, but in the spot I have it, I'm fine if it's just a small bush. In yours I think it should be fine.

So I counsel the difficult but not impossible - PATIENCE! (Smile)

Cynthia


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RE: 'Jaune Desprez' and "Secret Garden Musk Climber" -- dead?

  • Posted by AquaEyes 7 New Brunswick, NJ (My Page) on
    Thu, May 15, 14 at 16:42

Well, yesterday my order from Roses Unlimited arrived -- five more HTs to add to my pot-pet collection, and a replacement "Secret Garden Musk Climber" in case my band planted in the ground last year doesn't come back. I removed what there was left of last year's SGMC and potted it in a 1-gal container. If it comes back I'll be elated -- but if not, its replacement was planted in its spot in the garden.

And the SGMC I got from Roses Unlimited is even bigger than mine was by the end of last Autumn! Hopefully, the more substantial size will give it a better head-start just in case we get another crazy Winter next year.

What I thought was a swelling bud on last year's SGMC turned out to be a thorn. There is still green to the short stems, but so far no growth emerging.

While I was in the garden, I took a closer look at 'Jaune Desprez' and saw one small red shoot coming up a couple inches away from last year's cane I had to cut back to the ground. I'm going to keep my eye on it but otherwise leave it alone. If it dwindles away, I'll get a replacement and keep it in a pot until next year.

Incidentally, this was my first time ordering from Roses Unlimited, and I was very happy! The plants were much larger than most of the bands I received last year -- in fact, they're about the size last year's bands reached by the end of Summer! I don't regret getting the bulk of my roses as bands (many were hard to find anyway, and the small price difference added up to a lot considering how many I ordered), but if I want to add a rose here or there from this point forward, I'm going to see if Roses Unlimited has it available.

The five HTs I got were:

'Big Ben'
'Crimson Glory' VID
'Heart's Desire' VID
'Mister Lincoln' VID
'Red Masterpiece' VID

That they were VID was a surprise! I noticed it written on two tags (ML and RM) and emailed about the others. Pat replied that CG and HD were also VID, and said that they got many VID roses through UC Davis years ago. It's too bad they don't mention that on their website -- I'd think it'd be a great selling point.

:-)

~Christopher


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RE: 'Jaune Desprez' and "Secret Garden Musk Climber" -- dead?

Christopher, I'm betting your roses return with vim and vigor from their roots. Those tender beauties sound like they're as determined as the gardener who grows them...in New Jersey! I've seen roses mowed down to the soil level return not once, but twice, so don't doubt the tenacity of your gals. Do keep us updated! By the by, yummy bunches of red roses in that order. I adore Mr. Lincoln! I have a 10 foot tall one in my back garden. Who knew he could reach the garage roof after a few decades? Carol


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RE: 'Jaune Desprez' and "Secret Garden Musk Climber" -- dead?

Hi, Christopher. I am glad to hear you are seeing hopeful signs. I'm having similar problems with a couple of my roses so this thread was helpful. I hope they come back good and strong.

You ordered five red roses, what's your plan for them? I had no idea about the VID and Roses Unlimited! Pat is so wonderful and has such great plants. Now she needs someone to help her with marketing! I visited her nursery a few weeks ago and browsed and sniffed there for almost three hours. I could have stayed longer :)


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RE: 'Jaune Desprez' and "Secret Garden Musk Climber" -- dead?

Christopher, You are the right person to nurture these roses. All my best wishes for you and them.


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RE: 'Jaune Desprez' and "Secret Garden Musk Climber" -- dead?

  • Posted by AquaEyes 7 New Brunswick, NJ (My Page) on
    Fri, May 16, 14 at 12:53

I was a bit worried about them returning from the roots and growing enough by the end of the season because they were planted as bands last year. I decided to put in a new SGMC that was further along in the hopes that canes will be more hardened-off by Autumn than anything sprouting anew from the roots might be. And while I do see a shoot emerging where I planted JD, I'm still not 100% sure that it's not a squirrel-planted acorn or something else, but I'm not about to go digging around to find out -- I'll wait until leaves form.

Sidos-House -- the red HTs belong to my pot-pet collection. The only HT I planted in the ground is 'Lemon Spice'. I still have 'Heirloom' and 'Lagerfeld' in 2-gal containers but they're going to be gifted to a new-gardener friend from work. The roses I planted in the ground here range through many different classes, but when most non-gardeners think of a rose, they think of a fragrant red HT. So I thought it'd be interesting to have a collection of those more finicky roses kept in pots around the yard. Soon I'll be putting annual "fillers and spillers" in the pots to make mixed planters, the roses being the "thrillers." That way, I can use their "awkward growth habits" to an advantage.

The following are smaller, and are kept in 15" pots I found on-sale for $10 each at Rite Aid:

'Chateau de Clos Vougeot'
'Crimson Glory' VID (I need to find another pot for this one)
'Heart's Desire' VID (I need to find another pot for this one)
'Night' (aka 'Lady Sackville')
'Nigrette'
'Nocturne' (will be moved into barrel planter next year)

 photo 1661481_10152082589257285_8544804354286012695_n.jpg

 photo 1010711_10152082589277285_1755920451942613724_n.jpg

 photo 10299555_10152082589327285_948382806748410273_n.jpg

I found four of those pots in red, and two in terracotta. The two terracotta ones are holding 'R. fedtschenkoana' and 'DLFED 3' which rooted from cuttings sent to me by Kim Rupert. While I'm happy I made a score finding these pots, the hard part now will be finding more elsewhere -- I bought all they had at Rite Aid and I haven't seen them there again since. If I don't find them on my next trip to Home Depot, I'll have to pick out a few others of another style.

And these are planted in 22 1/2" resin barrel planters I got from Home Depot for $20:

'Big Ben'
'Chrysler Imperial'
'Mirandy' VID
'Mister Lincoln' VID
'Oklahoma' VID
'Red Masterpiece' VID
'Rose of Freedom' VID
'Velvet Fragrance'

 photo 10153239_10152082589302285_6194066183382641075_n.jpg

 photo 10309207_10152082589287285_5618072607509850334_n.jpg


Some of them in the barrels are large enough that I can plant annuals in them now, but a couple others got cut down by Winter and are very short. They're all putting on fast growth now, so I think I'll be able to pick out "fillers and spillers" very soon. I haven't decided yet what I want -- I'll see what's available next time I'm at Home Depot. There will be two plans -- one for all the barrels, and one for all the 15" pots.

:-)

~Christopher


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RE: 'Jaune Desprez' and "Secret Garden Musk Climber" -- dead?

Christopher, I was at Lowe's yesterday, and noticed that they had some pots that were very similar (or possibly the same) as those red pots. They were on sale, and I found them with the outdoor furniture- I think I'm going to get some of the blue ones in the same style.

I think the smaller ones were 15" for about $7-8, and there were larger pots for $11-12. It's possible that I misjudged the sizes, and it was the 15" pots that were the larger size, but I don't think so. They were made in Israel- dunno about yours...

And, how is Jaune Desprez doing, BTW? And SGMC? Enquiring minds want to know!


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RE: 'Jaune Desprez' and "Secret Garden Musk Climber" -- dead?

  • Posted by AquaEyes 7 New Brunswick, NJ (My Page) on
    Wed, Jul 2, 14 at 11:23

Thanks for the heads up! Right now, I don't need more pots, but if they're on sale, I just may pick some up anyway.

'Jaune Desprez' and the original "Secret Garden Musk Climber" did not send up any new growth, and are presumed dead at this point. I did get a replacement for SGMC from Roses Unlimited, and it's doing ok, but hasn't seemed to put on much growth since it was planted. Upon arrival, it was already about the same size as my original SGMC was by the end of the season. It looks healthy, but simply hasn't "taken off" yet.

And I put 'Baltimore Belle' in the ground to replace JD. I had it in a pot from last year, and it already had canes long enough to train into the tree. I wove the already-planted clematis 'Sweet Summer Love' into it. I posted pics in the link below.

:-)

~Christopher

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Baltimore Belle' to replace 'Jaune Desprez'


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RE: 'Jaune Desprez' and "Secret Garden Musk Climber" -- dead?

I forgot that I'd already admired your 'Baltimore Belle' and clematis arrangement.

I really like the looks of 'BB' and hope she continues to do well for you. And if you really love 'Jaune Desprez', I hope you'll try again, and hopefully, it won't 'catch cold' while still a youngster.

I know that at some point, I will have to try both 'JD' and 'Gloire de Dijon'. At this point, though, I'm not ready to cope with a climbing rose of any sort.

As for the pots, it's nice to have a few extra of something you like, just in case you happen to find a use for them.

I hope Arthur isn't heading your way, but if he is, stay safe!

Virginia


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