I would love to grow some teas---but I tried Lady Hillingdon and she was not happy----here---At my age I try to just grow roses that thrive in my zone---it is easier for me.

I will look forward to your experiment-----If I were younger I would try to experiment also----

Florence

You might be wise to talk to the folks at Antique Rose Emporium -- but I suspect "pushing" ROOT GROWTH is more important than pushing TOP growth.

Jeri

I'm in Virginia, Zone 7, and I grow many teas quite successfully. Among them are:

Msr. Tillier
Mrs. B. R. Cant
Mme. Lombard
La Sylphide
Rock Hill Peach Tea
Angel's Camp Tea
Mme. Antoine Mari
Odee Pink
Smith's Parish
Cels Multiflore
Safrano
... and others that I can't remember off the top of my head.

There were some that couldn't stand the relatively cold winters we have here, and those didn't make it. The only way to know if you can grow teas is to buy some teas and try to grow them.

Connie

P.S. The link below takes you to a blog post I did last year with TONS of tea photos.

Here is a link that might be useful: It's a 'Tea' Party!

I guess the "pushing" is not such a great idea. thanks for the replies.

Well, there are two answers. First, Paul Barden "pushed" the zone requirement for many Teas for quite a few years, until they all froze to death. I don't know how your climate compares to his, FWIW.

Second, YES, you can "push" growth on any rose (and most other plants). I very successfully pushed many roses when I ran Limberlost Roses many years ago. I'd take five gallon plants of Teas, Tea-Noisettes, Rosarium Uetersen and others, plant them in fifteen gallon cans then put them on TPN (total parental nutrition). I fed them quite well and prevented them from flowering AT ALL for the remainder of the summer.

Growth occurs not only to feed the plant but to permit it to reproduce before it dies, to perpetuate the species, so to speak. When the plant develops a cane sufficient to carry flowers, pinch all of the flower buds off. Leave the foliage and wood if at all possible. The leaves feed the plant and Teas store that food in the wood. They REQUIRE a good framework of that old, thick wood to have enough energy to put on the show they are expected to produce. That's why you read the admonitions not to prune hard or they "sulk".

Continue feeding as you normally would. I found half concentrations delivered at half the intervals worked quite well. Of course, you will need to determine when you should discontinue feeding based upon your climate and the potential date of your first freeze.

I pushed five gallon climbing teas to enormous fifteen gallon plants with many canes and even more flowering shoots in a matter of a few months. Of course, that was here in the Land of Endless Summer, but you can do similarly where you are. Just provide everything the plant needs to grow and do NOT let it flower. Removing those flower buds stimulates the plant to hurry and put out more growth so it can form MORE flower buds. It works.

Don't worry about "soft growth" that may be frozen. You can control that with your feeding schedule based upon your knowledge and experience with your climate. If you want, count back the appropriate time from when you expect your frosts, stop feeding and let the plants bloom. What you're doing is maintaining the plant in its "ovulation mode" until you allow it "pregnancy" in time to harden off before winter sets in. Flowering IS "ovulation" and seed set IS "pregnancy". Being pregnant stops ovulation, as it does in most organisms, so the plant will begin to harden off as if you'd allowed it to flower all summer, but you'll have a significantly larger, more mature plant at the end of the treatment. Kim

You are a fountain of knowledge, Kim. This info is exactly what I am looking for.

This plan should work to get my teas going before it gets cold. I have been a staunch organic gardener once I get them in the ground, but would be willing to vary from this to push them along. Could you suggest a good fertilizer for TPN??

I agree with Kim--roses get much bigger if you remove all the buds as soon as you see them. I twist off the little buds with my fingers.

You're welcome and thanks! You learn a whole lot when you've killed a whole lotta plants! LOL!

You might consider combining your organic and a chemical fertilizer in the pots. Put whatever you'd normally put of the organics in the potting soil or top dress with it. Because it is very fast acting and because it is much more difficult to burn potted plants with it than with pelletized chemical fertilizers, I've most often used All Purpose Miracle Grow. The instructions say a tablespoon every two weeks, so water the plant, then give it half a tablespoon every week. Instead of feast or famine, they get a steady supply of food like we do when we forage all day on tiny meals instead of gorging two or three times a day, almost like a hypoglycemic type diet. Of coarse, you can use anything you want, but the inorganic source of nitrogen will help feed and stimulate the organics in the soil, which will already be more highly active due to the increased heat in the pot from air and sun temps surrounding it, so they'll break down faster and feed the plant more. I liked to apply it as a foliar feed with a pump sprayer. Much of it drips down into the pot so the plant gets fed three ways.

You're going to water a bit more often than you would normally and you may want to increase the drainage of the soil you use a little to help mitigate the increased watering.

Remember you can do this for any rose which wants to flower instead of growing. As I posted before, Rosarium Uetersen will flower instead of climbing. Grey Pearl and a number of the earlier Coffee Roses do the same. My Annie Laurie McDowell, just like all of the climbing Tea Noisettes and MANY of the other climbing Teas and bush Teas, can take seemingly forever to GROW, though they will bloom like dandelions. Even just preventing the plant from blooming, without the TPN, can double or even triple the plant you would have normally had if it were allowed to flower. Kim

greybird - are they already in the ground? If so, you can still buy mycchorhizae in a powder form, to be mixed with water to use as a root drench. Also, if you can get your hands on seaweed or fermented plant products which contain fulvic acids (Canna do a whole range). Deep breath because I am going to suggest you spend a little time on a couple of the pot growing forums. (try 420.com) Without doubt, these folk are the BEST gardeners of their generation - the money and the enthusiasm is there so research has gone roaring ahead....including the successful generation of good root growth. You can certainly reduce the flowering potential of new plants by removal of flowering buds - this is routinely done with fruiting trees and bushes for a couple of years to increase overall vigour. What has done for me, more than cold, has been winter rains. Good drainage is the absolute top requirement for growing a lot of semi-tropicals and my little fave, high alpines. Finally, winter protection. I have read a number of suggestions on this forum including partial burying, wrapping in burlap and so on. I overwinter many young perennials and am free with using shade netting as a windbreak. Also, my most useful product has been the light, white, papery horticultural fleece. A double layer of fleece, loosely thrown over plants (I peg it into the ground so the plants are in a sort of tent) raises the temperature by 3 degrees. It still allows light, does not permit rotting or mould as it is very lightweight, is cheap and effective. Avoid bubblewrap or any other waterproof covering. Curiously, a favourite rose of this forum, Mrs B.R.Cant, was raised just down the road from me in East Anglia.....but is never seen in England. I have to conclude that some of them are never going to do much unless they get the situation they truly require....which also makes me think you should just try a couple at a time....unless you have deep pockets. Good Luck, I, too, have played this game and even got away with it for years until a particularly vicious winter killed a flourishing 14 year old Canariensis palm (amongst many, many dahlia and canna losses) to a horrible brown slime.

Today I began my experiment. Pinched all the buds off those teas and there were many, many!!!! Totally heartbreaking, but had to be done. Tomorrow I begin the application of liquid Miracle-Gro, 1/2 tablespoon. Can't wait to see the results!

I stumbled upon Kim's new blog by happy accident. I thought I'd post the address for others of you that haven't found it and might be interested. Gean

Here is a link that might be useful: Kim Rupert's blog

Sounds like good advice from Kim. The lightweight fleece sounds good too. I use Miracle Grow but think the more diluted frequent use would be better. But I have heard of very good results from the food, Gardenville Sea Tea. SErena in KS has great results feeding her plants with it.
Linda

Thanks, I'm glad some are enjoying the blog. It's fun and permits an outlet for "discoveries" we all make but so few share.

The "fleece" campanula referred to is Frost Cloth. It's fairly readily available and works well. I've used it in nursery settings. Don't believe the claims you can still effectively water nursery cans through it. Most water is repelled by it so you still need access to the pots for watering. It works best if suspended above the plants as sufficiently hard freezes can still damage tender foliage if the cloth is touching it. The stuff is a real hassle if it gets muddy so efforts made to keep it clean can be well rewarded. Kim

Several Tea roses have more Bourbon blood in them which makes them more cold hardy, these include:
Adam" (hortico grows this in eastern Canada.)
Mme. Antoine Mari" a heartbreaker in beauty.
Anna Olivier" which is the most fragrant Tea I've ever smelled, it has a rich fruity scent and is one of the healthiest roses in our area. From vintagegardens.com

I'd try to push those 3 Teas.
I feed my Tea bands and gallons with liquid 12-12-12 every 3-4 weeks in the growing season, it does wonders for canopy growth. Roses in pots need more fertilizing because the extra water that a potted plant needs flushes out nutrients.

Luxrosa

My experience this winter was very mixed. Some of my teas came through the sub-degree temps like heroes, while others melted, some finally giving up the ghost. Of course, there are other variables that might have effected the outcome, like location. But all were relatively protected from the wind. None having the coveted southern exposure.

Heroes: Le Pactole
William R. Smith
Marie van Houtte
Maman Cochet
Mrs. B.R. Cant
Spice
Marie d'Orleans
Trinity
Souvenir d'Elise Vardon (this one surprised me!)
Safrano
Isabella Sprunt
McClinton Tea
Mrs. Dudley Cross
Le Vesuve

Melted: Duchesse de Brabant
Ducher
Monsieur Tillier
Mme. Marie Antoine
Lady Hillingdon
General Tartas

Croaked: Georgetown Tea
Niles Cochet
White Maman Cochet

I'm also going to check into the fleece stuff, Or may go down to Goodwill and get blankets to chunk on then in the extreme cold snaps.

I've never had the intestinal fortitude to keep my teas from blooming with the one recent exception of a band of Mrs. Dudley Cross that, with very few exceptions, I've disbudded ruthlessly. Since I have another one it wasn't such a sacrifice. Anyway, it immediately began growing like a weed and I'm amazed. I'm going to do the same thing with my baby Cl. Lady Hillingdon, and will reluctantly disbud Mrs. B.R. Cant, which has disease issues. Kim, do you think disbudding will help the plant to fight disease more easily? It's going to be tough because I love Mrs. B.R. Cant's blooms very much.

Ingrid

Hi Ingrid, I have no scientific studies to support the answer I am about to suggest, but logically, I would say your chances of a healthier plant of whatever variety you are talking about should be greater after disbudding for a summer. We all know stories about roses which "out grew" disease issues. Some are sold with the information that they take a while to produce as they should. I know roses which can be forced to get ill. Over prune Iceberg and you can force it to black spot.

The plant's immune system is going to be more active, more efficient, the better fed it is. If, as 1970s ARS funded floral research stated, it takes 35 perfect leaves to make one perfect flower, it should also take a good set of perfect leaves to fully endow a properly functioning immune system.

Teas, Peace and its close seedlings, and quite a few other roses require a solid framework of old wood which stores the resources for them to be healthier, longer-lived and more productive. That framework should be properly covered with a good set of foliage. Foliage feeds the plant. The better nourished the plant, the more effective the immune system and the more productive the plant is. So, wouldn't you say the answer to your question SHOULD be "yes"? Kim

Thank you so much for your advice Kim. I always pay close attention to what you advise or suggest. All I have in the way of fertilizer is alfalfa meal, which I did use a few months ago but I'm now going to go out and give it some more. I disbudded it earlier this morning, and now have a nice container of buds and open blooms in the house as a consolation.

P.S. Please don't ever leave this forum!

Ingrid

Thank you Ingrid, I'm honored. You may want to use other things in addition to your alfalfa meal for a more well balanced diet. Alfalfa is good stuff but not well balanced. If you prefer organic, get an all purpose 5-5-5. If you prefer not to use animal products in the fertilizer, and I know some vegetarians who don't, there are vegetarian mixes which omit the blood and bone meal. Alfalfa's big draw are the growth stimulators it contains, which is a good thing, but it doesn't provide all the basic feeding the roses can utilize. Kim

Thank you Kim; I'll now be on the hunt for 5-5-5 fertilizer. I'm a lazy gardener and therefore prefer to normally stick with only alfalfa, which has served me very well, but my Mrs. Cant is a special case. I want to get her out of the Intensive Care ward as soon as possible.

Ingrid

What I usually find is at Green Thumb/Green Arrow. It's GrowMore brand organics. There are formulations for Acid, Citrus, Rose and Flower and All Purpose. As I mix it with Grow Power Plus inorganic so I not only feed the plant NOW, but the soil for later, I don't worry whether it's All Purpose or Rose and Flower. Fortunately, roses can't read, so as long as the nutrients are sufficient and they're relative ratios are appropriate, they roses "eat" them. I have great success with the mix but I'm also where the soil heats up. Though it's been cooler and damper, when the sun comes out, the dirt gets HOT so the stuff breaks down and the soil bacteria digest it quickly. By all means, continue with the alfafla, but adding the other goodies will definitely show you some positive results. Kim

I am in 6b and grow more than a dozen different Teas. They are as hardy for me as HTs. The main thing is to keep them healthy. If you allow them defoliate from BS they will get weak and will likely have a lot of winter damage.
Olga

These Teas are in their first full season (spent the winter outside) . These are doing fairly well so far:

Duchesse de Brabant
Lady Hillingdon
Ducher

I think have it figured out why many of my roses, (esp. teas) stay small or seem to get smaller the older they get. They stay dormant all the time from cold temps and hot temps. Then sunburn or frost burns knocks them back. Bummer.

Can't treat them with the diluted fertilizer, too hot, burns the foliage. And the new growth gets fried. Maybe next year.

Could very well be, greybird. European OGRs primarily go dormant due to cold. Evergreen roses tend to be more summer heat dormant. It makes sense. Summer is when there aren't rains, so, like xerophytes, they shut down when it's hot to reduce water stress. If there isn't enough water, they stop. Mix the two sets of instructions and you can imagine the confusion! LOL! Kim