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jeffcat_gw

So I'm getting more Austins...including climbers but have some ?

jeffcat
12 years ago

I'd like to say I was "done", but we all know how that goes right? haha Well I started on my mother's garden last year and decided to go back and "finish" it. After having 3 of my 5 Pat Austin cuttings die for unknown reasons and the other 2 hanging on by a puny thread(literally) and having the need for a couple climbers(preferably English). I was interested to hear how well some of these roses perform for you and what sizes you usually get out of them...especially if you live in the Z5B area.

Well here is the first area that needs attention. All these Pat Austins were doing great, 3 overwintered the winter, then 2 additional ones inexplicably died for no good reason. 1 is "alive", but just barely...I might just dig it up and relocate it. To say there are a lot of english roses to choose from is a bit of an understatement, but here is what I was CONTEMPLATING after some thoughts on size and many different colors. None of this is CONCRETE though. There are numerous others to consider and how I arrange the colors. If you know of others that may work better let me know. Others that I have considered are Brother Cadfael, Huntington Rose, Dark Lady, Munstead Wood, Lady Emma Hamilton, Jude, Tamora, Strawberry Hill, Sister Elizabeth, Sweet Juliet, etc.

{{gwi:273226}}From 11-6-2010

Here is side view of the garden currently. Sharifa Asma is on the far right out of view of the camera for the most part. I was thinking about planting Munstead Wood to contrast Evelyn and making it an entry level rose that is shorter. Others I am considering are some of the shorter ones mentioned above, Pretty Jessica, English Garden, The Prince, etc. Now on the the OTHER side of the walkway(right off to the side of the previous picture), I was thinking about planting some form of English climber...something as or more vigourous than Graham Thomas....I'm thinking Crown Princess Margareta with the orange/apricot contrasting the pink of Queen of Sweden on the other side(IF I used QOS there). The rest of CPM will grow partially as another entry rose like Munstead Wood(if I used it), and up the corner/side of the house.

{{gwi:273227}}From 11-6-2010

This one is possibly my toughest choice.....I need a climber...PREFERABLY English, but doesn't need to be. If it's not English, I will probably go with Dublin Bay. I've always like the way yellow and red contrast themselves as climbers...then I was thinking of also weaving purple clematis with the red/yellow roses. I have Graham Thomas planted on each side of the patio....lattice is going up soon. Now on the corner I need a climber as vigorous as Graham Thomas to spread throughout the 2 Graham Thomas's. Now I'm aware of how Dublin Bay performs and have seen it in person an know it would work nicely, HOWEVER being an English addict, I was wondering if any of the RED Austin's would work? Tess of the D'Urbervilles is the first Austin red climber that comes to mind. Others are Falstaff, Tradescant, etc. Tess seems the reddest of the bunch though. Think it would be enough to help contrast the monstrous Graham Thomas yellow color?

{{gwi:273228}}From 11-6-2010

And lastly, I am growing another climber on the other side of the house....I'm torn between Spirit of Freedom and Mortimer Sackler. On one hand, I hear MS isn't very thorny and has a pleasing pink/white blend, plus SEEMS more vigorous and more floriferous, BUT I adore Spirit of Freedom's bloom type and others have said it is hardy in the cold so that was a little surprising, so I'm leaning towards SOF against my better judgement. It's for the side of a deck about 5.5 ft tall from the ground where it will be planted then will grow to the top of the rail and hopefully spread as much as possible.

Your guy's experiences, help, and knowledge of what you have seen or done before will help a TON. I kind of have some ideas, always have HMF, and the other rose info sources, but hearing first hand info on these roses and what I'm planning STILL goes a LONG way.

Comments (11)

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jeff, I know nothing about how large Austins get in your area, or other roses for that matter, but especially in the second picture I'd worry that perhaps you have too many roses for that area, especially since none of them seem to be smaller ones. As for your third picture, I'm a little concerned about the color scheme, with a red climber, the apricot Abraham Darby, lilac pink Bishop's Castle and twobright yellow Graham Thomas roses. I'm afraid the red color will fight with the yellow which will fight with the apricot and lilac pink. Combining "cool" colors with "warm" colors is often a risky business. With a white house my tendency would be to choose cool colors such as cream, pink, lilac and purple, with perhaps some pale yellow roses like Charles Darwin rather than an outright yellow like Graham Thomas, beautiful though it is. You could still have Abraham Darby since it's a combination of pink and apricot. In the final analysis of course it's really a matter of personal taste. By the way, I have Sister Elizabeth and she'd be wonderful if you chose cool colors. It's such a beautiful lilac pink. Bishop's Castle, which I also have, is also a really gorgeous rose. So is Spirit of Freedom, which unfortunately didn't like my heat. Chaucer is also a lovely, smaller rose. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

    Ingrid

  • jerijen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    MOST Austins don't much like my conditions, so I'm not adding more than the few that succeeded here.
    But I wanted to say that the photos I've seen of Munstead Wood really tested my resolve.

    Gorgeous thing!

    Jeri

  • blendguy
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Jeff,

    I'd recommend The Generous Gardener or St Swithin for a climber, not red, but both of them seem to be good choices. I have Spirit of freedom and I'm increasingly underwhelmed by it.

    I grew Queen of Sweden at my old house and I liked it a lot, but beware that it is a very upright rose... basically shooting straight up with lovely cupped roses on the very tips. It's very vertical.

    I also grew Tess, and I thought it a decent enough plant but would never grow it again.

    The Prince too, also grew very vertically, wonderful blooms but not a "bush", rather some sticks with amazing flowers on it. I'd grow it again, but in the back of something else. Same for Queen of Sweden.

    I really like Sister Elizabeth. Short plant, smallish flowers, but really great shape, strong scent, and very good rebloom.

    I'm a fan of the highly-scented English roses. Today was the first bloom of the year on Sceptre'd Isle and the scent is just fantastic. Between my old house and my new place, I've probably grown about 50 Austins, and my favourites (at this point) would include:
    Jude the Obscure
    Lady E. H.
    Jubilee Celebration
    St. Cecelia
    Sceptre'd Isle
    Harlow Carr
    Gentle Hermione
    The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild
    Alan Titchmarsh
    Eglantyne
    Evelyn
    Sister Elizabeth

    Of course, your climate will make all the difference, especially in 5b, I've grown English Roses only in California and England.... but those are the ones I wouldn't want to be without.

    New to me this year, but roses I liked when I visited David Austin's nursery last year include: The Alnwick Rose, The Wedgewood Rose, Munstead Wood and Princess Alexandra of Kent. On the wishlist for next year some oldies like Pretty Jessica, Brother Cadfael, Abe Darby, Mary Magdalene and Lilac Rose; and of course, the new roses will be revealed soon, so perhaps something from there will be especially tempting.

    Anyway, hope something in this helps you out, good luck with the new planting, I'm sure your mom will love them!

  • buford
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Jeff, I am an Austin lover. I absolutely LOVE Bishop's Castle, mine is doing great this year. Crown Princess Margareta is much more robust than Graham Thomas. It's a sprawler, but if you give it some support, it will do well. I finally put mine on an obelisk and it's stunning. Here is a bloom from a few weeks ago:

    {{gwi:258349}}

    I think you will really love her. My zone is much warmer than yours and most of my Austins get huge (except for some reason, William Shakespear, which is still puny) but also consider Teasing Georgia as a very robust yellow climber. it tends to bloom more in clusters and is a heavy spring and then not as strong reapeat bloomer. But I love her.

  • jeffcat
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for all the info guys. I'm kind of leaning towards Dublin Bay for the red climber. The different HT blooms will do alright contrasting the english style blooms. I was skeptical of the yellow/red combo at first, but have seen other do it and it looked great. Graham Thomas got up to about 8ft in it's 2nd year with virtually no die back...I'm sure it could go taller. Graham Thomas for me doesn't have a "deep yellow" color other than right off the bat during the spring. After that, it's more of a muted yellow and gives off a soft yellow and white combo from older blooms, so the red won't be as combative. I would put pink but Bishop's Castle is in front, the tree in front is pink, Peace is next to Graham Thomas, and Abraham Darby has shades of pink so that are is kind of "pinked out". Red or purple was all I could come up with there and purple climbers are pretty much out of the question so I'm going with a red climber and then running purple/blue clematis to mix in with Dublin Bay and Graham Thomas. The whole area isn't very colorful and nor is the house so it kind of brightens it up a bit.

    Blendguy could you tell me more about the growth habit and bloom habit of Alan Titchmarsh and Harlow Carr? Alan seems to be a lot like Carding Mill in growth habit, but the blooms seem to be nodding......which doesn't bother me, but if I put it next to Carding Mill, it will kind of stand out.

    For those of you that grow Spirit of Freedom and Mortimer Sackler, how vigorous are they, what size do you get, and how good is the rebloom?....how thorny?

  • veilchen
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Before you make your choices--let's get something clear: Austins are not "climbers" in zone 5b, probably zone 6 and north. They do not have the winter cane hardiness needed to grow long enough per season to have that much height. Even the ones listed in the DA catalog as "climbers" will not perform as such in the north. I grow about 45 different Austins included many you list above and none of them get nowhere near climbing status in my garden. Possibly some of them throw out lanky canes by the end of the season, but definitely not consistently. After each winter you will likely need to prune your Austins down to a foot or two at best. After severe winters, some of them need to be pruned close to ground level. But the good thing about them is they bounce back quickly, unlike HTs grown in this climate, and they really are blooming machines.

    However, there are two Austins I know of that are true climbers--Chianti (dark red) and Constance Spry (pink). They are usually listed toward the back of the catalog with no picture, or might be available from Pickering. They are very early introductions from DA and are only once-blooming, very similar to OGRs. But both are lovely roses and really are cane hardy.

    Falstaff, Tradescant, LD Braithwaite don't grow much over 3-4' for me. Graham Thomas grows taller than Crown Princess Margarita. Of the others you mention that I grow, Spirit of Freedom can get quite big and tall, over 5', but nowhere near a climber. I grow Crocus Rose and have found him to be the hardiest (except Chianti and C. Spry) Austin I've grown yet. Could probably get tall if you let it but canes not very flexible. Cream-colored. Teasing Georgia is a more vigorous, taller yellow rose than Charlotte.

  • buford
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    He said his GT was 8 feet, which is funny because mine is under 3 feet. My CPM and Golden Celebration are also not that big, even though I am in a warmer zone. I think it's because they do get some shade (we recently pruned back the cherry tree which is near, and GT has more blooms this year) and the spot I have them in was very bad soil, almost solid sicky grey clay. But after a few years of applying compost and amentments, they seem to be coming around.

  • roseberri, z6
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    He is in an area that is a microclimate because of city warmth. Also we are now really zone 6 here.
    roseberri

  • Krista_5NY
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mortimer Sackler is a wonderful rose. It gets very little cane dieback here, forms a 4-5 foot tall shrub.

    It grows taller than wide.

    The repeat bloom is good.

    It seems to tolerate some shade as it grows in a spot that does not get all day sun.

    It does have thorns, but they are not excessive.

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Harlow Carr is a really beautiful rose that seems to do much better in cooler climates. Mine looked gorgeous in the spring but the blooms absolutely couldn't stand my heat. Other than that it would have been one of my favorite Austins. I would think it would make a fabulous hedge since its growth habit was so regular (although mine was a young plant).

    Ingrid

  • daveinohio_2007
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Chianti is only Austin which has survived in our no spray central ohio garden. It gets 8ft tall, upright, thorny; very fragrant blooms.