I didn't know quite how to phrase the title, but I'm interested in discovering which Noisettes and Tea-Noisettes do well for those who experience little to no frost while also enjoying mild -seldom above the 80s- summer conditions.

It seems that most of these roses flourish in climates that routinely have stretches in the 90s and 100s during the warmest parts of the year. We almost never get that hot in Santa Monica. I understand Reve d'Or, Setzer Noisette, and Roseville Noisette would probably do well here, but I feel as though most other N/TNs seem to demand more heat and never take off for those facing similar conditions. Crepescule is a poster child for TNs that seem to thrive in real heat, but flounder elsewhere.

It's moderately humid and permanently mild here. What Noisettes or Tea-Noisettes should have a reasonable chance of success in such conditions from your experiences?

Also, has anyone grown the Noisette 'Meteor'? It intrigues me after I saw it in an advertisement/inventory list from 1904 for a local nursery announcing rose season. I have never seen one in person, but I like the photos on HMF.

Jay

The Noisettes which are reported to like warmer conditions will be planted against a west facing wall here, and I have high hopes for them despite our mild climate, based on the performance of Crepuscule.

The cluster-flowering Noisettes (BLUSH NOISETTE and its various seedlings and sports) do very well here.

REVE d'OR is very happy and bloomiferous :-)

Tea Roses are very happy.
China Roses are very happy.

We get enough chill hours, below 45 for fruit trees, to get fruit to set. Some years we get a few nights with a hard enough freeze for water in the garden to get ice on it.

Diane

If you're mostly interested in not-so-pale Noisettes, I wonder if you would also like 'Fellemberg', 'Triomphe des Noisettes' or 'Bouganville' AKA 'Bougainville'? They are all supposed to be repeat bloomers, like Meteor...

Unfortunately, I have no idea if they'd like your climate, but as muscovyduckling mentioned, you can keep an eye out for what does well in other mild-summer locales. Fellemberg has some China ancestry, so that might be a good thing?

Good luck,
Virginia

In Morcom Park, in adjacent Oakland with similar weather, there is a humungous Lamarque and at least a few others -- whose names escape me now (Luxrosa would know!).

The noisettes I've had were Camelia Rose, which arrived as a strapping big plant from back east and Caroline Marniesse. Camelia Rose was planted next to a seasonal stream, where many of my roses (particularly ramblers and species) grow like gangbusters. She promptly grew backwards and was dead in less than a year, about 10 feet away from an enormous Apple Blossom that blooms spectacularly, and a few more feet to an equally wonderful Light Pink Eglantine from SJHRG.

Caroline Marniesse arrived as a normal-sized band from Vintage. She struggles in dry summer heat. I have her planted in a spot that gets dappled shade part of the day and full sun the rest. Yet she wilts reliably in summer heat, even when watered daily. Her next door neighbor Europas Rosentgarten, a floribunda from Eurodesert, thrives in the same conditions. Blooms, grows, and just generally looks wonderful, showing zero signs of heat stress. Another neighbor is the bourbon Madame Pierre Oger, another band size rose from Vintage (and I think in the same shipment as Caroline Marniesse), which has grown like a rocket (over 6 feet tall now) and blooms beautifully. Handles heat well with average irrigation in my low water garden.

If anyone wants Caroline Marniesse, I'd be happy to bring her to some Southern Calfiornia rose event and pass her on to you. She is slated to be shovel-pruned and replaced with either a rugosa, spinosissima, damask, or species. I think she would do fine in a more normal rose garden with hybrid teas and teas, since they have similar water needs.

Melissa

I do like Fellemberg and Bouganville, though I'm not opposed to any of the lighter N/TNs. If Gloire de Dijon had a better reputation own root I'd try it in a heartbeat. GdD is a knee-buckler for me. I remember reading that someone was having Burling bud one for them. I hope they post an update on their experiences with that.

That's very interesting Melissa. I would have assumed you would have great success with Noisettes and that they wouldn't be so resource hungry. Repeat aside, that's also interesting that Crepescule does well for you, muscovyduckling. Melbourne is quite similar in climate to Santa Monica, but warmer on average by about 7 degrees Fahrenheit during our respective summers.

Narrow Water is one I have thought about for a semi-shady spot along with Secret Garden Musk Climber and Bubble Bath, Diane. I have enjoyed it each time I've seen it in person, but that is probably a year or more off from purchase.

I know we -well some of us- don't like repeatedly buying the same variety that we can't get to succeed until we find the "one," but it does seem to happen. Jeri has written about struggling to find a mildew free Duchesse de Brabant clone and a good Dark Lady I believe. It took at least three examples of each plant to find a "good" one if memory serves me. The N/TN classes aren't without their successes here. Perhaps it is worth trying an Elie Beauvillain or GdD type that is sumptuously beautiful, but not without a finicky reputation. I'd likely get a Narrow Water, Reve d'Or, or one of Meteor and Fellemberg as either a backup plan or future gift for someone.

Nurseries don't always exclusively carry roses that are destined to succeed in your climate, but varieties that I can confirm were sold here either in the late 19th or early 20th century are Meteor, Madame Alfred Carriere, William Allen Richardson, Reve d'Or, Gloire de Dijon, Lamarque, and Marechal Niel.

Jay

Not that I wouldn't also love to see photos of any of the others you've mentioned...

I say go for it. I certainly will be!

Jeri- When looking for information on EB I happened to see an old comment you left to that effect. The TNs I really like aren't the ones that seem to be reliable choices, but I'm willing to chance it on one of these while also ordering a more reputable variety. I haven't tried anything very iffy since becoming active on this forum despite the abundance of enabling. If the TNs I prefer don't like it here, I'll simply set them aside with the many classes I already disregard. Some chances need to be taken and this is more likely to end well than trying SDlM, Salet, or a rose from a more finicky class.

Jay

Now, that said, I really DO recommend 'Reve d'Or' for the SoCalif coast. It's got everything going for it, and it's doing well here.

Beyond that, there is MICRO-CLIMATE.

Just because something didn't work here -- that's not an assurance that it won't work for you. I think -- if you REALLY want to try a rose, you should do so, and find out for yourself.

Try 'Jaune Desprez,' for instance. It does grow here. It blooms little -- BUT it gets too much shade. And the blooms are spectacular, the fragrance beyond divine, and the foliage very clean. Give it plenty of sun, and you might have a winner. (Or not. But at least you will have tried.)

It is described as 'vigorous', but I don't know if that means only if you're lucky enough (ahem!) to have steamy, sultry sauna-bath summers.

Jay

But so is that photo of 'Jaune Desprez'- that's definitely a rose I'd like to see- and smell- up close.

Ingrid