What an awesome project. When we moved to a house with many roses in the garden that I wanted to identify, I spent a lot of time surfing the web. I tried various descriptions and it took me a while but I finally was able to identify most of them. What helps is learning a bit about roses which you can do by reading a basic rose book or website. So, my search would have been quicker if I had searched for "climbing, thorny, single yellow flower" rather than just "yellow flowered big rose." If you acquaint yourself with some rose terminology i.e. bloom type (single, double etc.) and type of rose (climber, rambler, hybrid tea, floribunda, etc.) it will help a lot. Some places to start would be, again, a basic but comprehensive book on roses, the website Help Me Find, and/or a simple google search such as "types of roses." It can be slow going but fun. Of course posting pics here my yield answers.

Good luck and have fun!

Anne

Hi Nicola,

What a project! I don't know the identity of the rose either, but feel free to come to the forum and ask all the questions you like. Who doesn't like solving a mystery?

One of the things you want to know is whether the rose blooms once or repeats in flushes through the season. If it does repeat that is a clue that it is likely to belong to either Climbing Hybrid Tea or a Large Flowered Climber class of roses, which will reduce the number of roses you will need to consider. You will want to look for those introduced before 1955, since you did say the roses had been there for 60 years or so. Another class of climbers can get that big, the Climbing Teas, but they are tender so that only happens in warm climates with mild winters. If it does not repeat, it may be a rambler or it could still be a Climbing Hybrid Tea, since not all of them repeat. If you have not done so already, you will want to post your question on the regular Roses Forum as well.

I agree with the advice given so far, which is to begin by removing dead and diseased wood but prune gently this first year. It is generally considered safe to remove about one third of the live growth. Too much pruning at once can sometimes be a fatal shock to an old plant like this.

I do have one experience of moving a rose of that size and age. Mine was a 60- or 70-year-old Climbing Shot Silk. We were expanding and repairing our house and it had to be moved. Fortunately there was a lot of heavy equipment on site and we were able to move it with a Bobcat. We were able to get a massive amount of root for the move. The rose lived and bloomed two or three years, then declined rapidly and died. Do try to avoid moving large old roses unless you must. It is very hard on them. And if you must, take lots of cuttings to try to root them in case the original plant fails. That way you will be able to replace the in kind.

Rosefolly

Here is a link that might be useful: HelpMeFind Roses

Looks like a challenge, although a fun one. If you have time, here is some information about rooting roses. Kim Rupert (pushing the rose envelope) and Hartwood both post here and are a wealth of information. I do not know how made the youtube video, but it can be helpful to see a demonstration.

http://pushingtheroseenvelope.blogspot.com/2011/05/wrapping-cuttings.html

http://hartwoodroses.blogspot.com/2013/05/how-to-root-roses-from-cuttings.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiL83eUKWY8

There is a lady who posts on here under the name "campanula". She is in the UK, and very knowledgeable about roses and every other plant you can imagine. She works professionally with gardens. If you search her name on the search button at the bottom of this page, and click on it, you will be able to send her an email. She will probably be able to tell you of some local resources you could use to give you assistance with your garden.

Good Luck!

Jackie

P.S. My DH and I inherited a similar situation, except that our oldest roses were at least 100 years old.

Wow thank you for all your replies. I'll do a bit of research on the different types of roses and hopefully this will help narrowing down my approach. And will take a look at all the the lovely links this evening and take a look at the other Rose forum too. Hopefully this will help for asking more questions. I'm really thankful for you all taking the time to reply.

This is definitely a bit of a Lost Gardens of Heligan situation in places! The house was once the gardeners cottage of a larger house built in that late 1800's with all sorts of fruit trees and topiary to add to the mix. We've worked out and managed to (sort of) reshape a peacock, anchor, a fish/small whale (tail in air) and a Rudolph as well as basic shapes!!! Some are still a mess!!!

What I have worked out is that some are suffering with black spot and I'm taking these leave off. I think if just take section at a time and take the archeological approach that was suggested to make it more manageable. I think there is only 1 real problem in the short term for our extension which is the rose pictured below. It is right where we would need to dig foundations. It doesn't look that healthy and it's size would make moving it dubious. A medium sized cherry plum is the red leaved tree next to it. Most of the leaves on it have black spot and I think I may need to look further at trying to create new plants from cuttings. It's probably too big to move even if I get it in good shape?

The picture below is taken from the first floor and you can see where it has bloomed right at the top (top right if picture)... Most are fading now but I climbed to the top of step ladders and tried to take a closer picture of the least faded flower (these were red/orange at first).

Thanks again for the help to get me started.

The best flower left

Hi Nicola, this is the best time of year to do cuttings so your rose can be saved. I have sent you a pm cos my e.mail on my member page is ancient and GW won't change to my current one. Do e.mail me - sounds like a thrilling (if daunting) project..........but roses are usually tough and amenable.

Wish i could help i am in awe and full of jealousy u have an amazing project in front of you . Plz post close up pics of the flower the leavs and thrones help also petal count . I will google some og these for you to help narrow it down.

I also wish I could help -- and wish I could see the garden -- Campanula, tho, is probably your best resource.

The rose you've shown is quite lovely, and definitely worth saving -- so try cuttings, and once you have one or two going well, the big old plant can be sacrificed.

I've given you a link to our local Heritage Roses Group site, with articles on rooting rose cuttings. There are a jillion ways to do this -- so try various things until you hit one that works. Also, "Google" ways to root rose cuttings.

And, PLEASE -- Come back often to let us all know how things are going. We can't all come to see your garden, but we'd like to feel we could watch the progress.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rooting Roses -- articles on Gold Coast Heritage Roses Group Site

Good luck: your project sounds wonderful. It sounds as though you've been at work for a while now and have a clearer idea of your tasks than you would have had at the beginning.
Black spot can be the sign of stress of some sort: underfeeding, not enough sun (a long run of cloudy weather or previously pruned shrubs growing up around the rose), old declining growth needing to be eliminated. Some roses need pruning to stay healthy, others don't.
Keep us posted!
Melissa

I thought I'd post a little follow-up, although I am still trying to get my head around the different types of roses and terminology!

I have gone around the garden and took some photos. I'm going to list everything with a petal count, growth habit, buds, whether they flower again after a bloom has faded, photograph the hips when they come, leaf type, sizes etc etc. whilst clearing around each rose, cutting anything that looks sickly or dead.

Thank you for all the links and campenula's email as I feel a bit more confident that even if I don't know exactly what I've got, in the short-term I'm unlikely to kill anything if I take it steady and carefully!

Anyway, here are some photos of what is in bloom, there are roughly 30 separate plants in the garden but I suspect some of the (wild?) roses are the same. I know there's not sufficient info/detail to identify but thought you might like to at least see what I have. I also guess some of these might not be very old, but non-the-less, here they are...

This one is small (1 1/2 - 2 inches)

not quite open yet but another small one

I should number them really! 1, 2 and 3 are above...

4.The climber thats collapsed - very prolific now medium sized flowers

5. another small one

6. This is actually pillar box red medium sized

7. another small/wild one

8. medium sized

9. another medium sized, I thought this and 8 were the same but 8 has opened up differently (buds were similar though)

10. Probably a repeat of an earlier small/wild rose which is in another location

11. medium-large, but only 2 blooms on this

12. medium sized yellow

13. very large bloom, but not on a particularly big plant, only one bloom on it - love this one

14. On a really tall straight bush(?) 8ft or so. It was hard to photgoraph! Large blooms, starting to fade

15. Very similar, if not the same, as 14. but it is on a different plant

16. Really tall plant so found it hard to get a close up as in the middle of a deep border. Large bloom, a little stripey (?), looks a little sickly (?) only one bloom on this and some old hips.

17. V. small (l1 inch, slightly less) on long arching stems - amongst a holly tree and lilac so battling for space a bit

18. Probably similar/same as earlier pinky wild rose.

20. Final 5 petal 'wild' one although this looks very much deliberately planted with lovely health arching stems, lots of flowers and from what I remember from last year there were lots of hips formed on this one.

Sorry I had to post all these separately but couldn't see any other way!

That's it for now as the rest have no buds or just forming buds... I also remember a very strongly scented dark peach/dusty salmon one that was in a very dark corner that I am hoping blooms again.

I'll probably be very quiet for now as I do more research, take more details and try and clear around them so they can 'breathe' a little.

Many thanks again, Nicola.

Well, I know #17 is R. Sericea Pteracantha (sometimes called R. Omeiensis Pteracantha in Australia) because that's the only species rose that has 4 petals.

But I'm a total novice so I'll have to leave the trickier ones to those more knowledgeable.

Thank you Muscovyduckling, I didn't notice that it only had 4 petals. My description was off on that one - it is actual about 1 1/2-2 inches in size but still long and arching.

This is a picture of the tiny one (just under 1 inch) with clusters of flowers.

Well, perhaps that particular bloom has just lost some petals! In which case, I'm definitely wrong! Hehe.

The dark red one (#1) looks a lot like an Australian bred rose called Black Boy. It's a fragrant climber, but I have no idea if it was ever popular or even available in the UK, so that's a pretty unlikely guess.

Re picture 17: the descriptions I've read do seem to match Rosa Sericea, I may have confused things a little by adding that picture of yet another rose. This has been really useful as I have learnt about petal count and sepals. The 17. Rose has 4 petal in both blooms on it and one has 4 sepals and one has 3 (with 3 good petals and one slightly 'deformed'). This is all very interesting. Thank you, I may well have one ticked off the list. I'll see how the rest of the buds evolve on that one.

Re no. 1 it does look like black boy but it doesn't have much height - it looks like it was cut right down in recent years. Smells lovely with about 26 petals - they all fell off! I'll investigate more about black boy to see for that one but the gentleman who lived in the main house was a naval captain so feasible he travelled the world and may have brought back his wife (or the gardener!) a rose gift! Ha, ha!

Wow! What a spectacular collection! You will have a lot of fun if you take it easy, and don't try to do everything at once. I know, because when we moved into our house we had a very similar situation.

My only guess is #13, which looks a lot like 'Peace' to me.

Jackie

Jackie, I was thinking 'Peace' for #13, too.

I thought straight off that the first one looks a lot like 'Bardou Job'. That is one of the parents of 'Black Boy' so I'm not surprised that MuscovyDuckling and I were seeing close to the same thing, each identifying it as the one we are most used to seeing grown.

Rosefolly

Do you think your collapsed climber could be 'Alexandre Girault'?

I am certainly no expert, and could be laughably wrong, but comparing rose photos is a great way to learn about rose varieties. So even if I'm way off-target, a wrong suggestion might be more helpful than a correct one, right?!

Your plants are all so lovely- you have a lot of work ahead, but it's the kind of project that a lot of folks here would love to get their secateurs into...

Now, I'm gonna look at the others more closely to see if I can "assist" you with some more wild guesswork!

Best regards,
Virginia

Number 4 could be maggie http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.4052.1 here's a link to what i think it is

Here is a link that might be useful: hmf maggie

Do you think #18 might be a Dog Rose (Rosa canina)?

ETA: Apparently, Rosa canina and Rosa rubiginosa look very similar, and the best way to tell them apart is that the leaves of Eglantine have a sweet apple scent...

This post was edited by vmr423 on Tue, Jun 3, 14 at 12:59

Any of these could have been accidentally hybridized from the original bushes droping hips ... how cool if thete were some new ones growing ... well good luck and i am sooo jealous of your project.

Since you said some of these might be recent varieties, I'm going to throw out 'Cardinal Hume' as a possibility for #1, based purely on the fact that this one photo looks a bit similar...

Here is a link that might be useful: HMF photo of 'Cardinal Hume'

Lovely roses, wonderful long term project. Congratulations.

If I may be bold to suggest, could you introduce each rose on a separate thread? This way we can appreciate each one by itself :-)

The more information about the rose, the easier for the experts to help: Fragrance, leaves, bloom size, thorns, height. bloom cycle etc.

For sericia, next spring watch the color of the thorns; sericia ptericantha and R. pteragonis are two possibles.

Then spend some time looking at many, many pictures of R. canina. In your part of the world it's a widely used rootstock and I'd guess that four or five of yours are slightly different caninas. (This fall they'll have good hips for making jelly).

Something else to remember: the garden doubtless now has more shade than when it was first planted. This sort of situation may reduce or totally stifle rebloom, so when you label a rose a once bloomer, just remember that with more sun it might be a repeater.

Some guesses - agree that 13 is likely Peace. The pink five petal - maybe r. Carolina. Think that 8 and 9 may be Chicago Peace or Love and Peace but hoping someone else will confirm or correct me.

Count me in the ranks of The Envious Ones! What a wonderful garden, and what a great project. And it will give you something to do next winter (which I understand, from a sister that lives in the UK, is a really good thing). Please don't think that I am criticizing the climate over there - I adore England and have visited there many times. Good luck with your efforts and please, please keep us posted.

Holy Cow! What treasure!

Oh good one Rosefolly, re: Bardou Job. Not available in Australia anymore, but that would make sense.

How exciting!!! Looking forward to seeing what you have and how it turns out

I love 14 &15

Me too Kippy. So dreamy.....