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Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

Posted by jinnypearce none (My Page) on
Thu, Jun 16, 11 at 12:37

I have had such a wonderful time pouring over these pages of late! So I was wondering if I could get your advice on a problem we've been having lately. We just moved to our new home last Fall and have planted like mad. We put in a pretty, though tallish fence out front (to keep the dogs safe), and planted in front of it a butterfly vine, some low growing cyanothus and, here is to the point-a lovely little manzanita tree. The thing is, someone has systematically snapped off all the branches. I felt like weeping every time I saw it, and today someone finally snapped off the last pretty branch. So I dug it up and have it potted now hopefully to recoup and live out its days in the relative safety of the inner sanctum. But I was thinking-and here is where I need your help-The old rose passion has been such a great source of joy, that I was thinking, what about that? A joyful response to a sad problem-with thorns!!!! So give me what cha got! What roses do you know that have the most unforgiving barbs? I love Mosses, really dark roses of any kind, but also Souvenir de la Malmaison types, Gallicas. . . OK, not much I don't love. Fragrance a real plus! We live in Berkeley, CA. Thank you in advance for any of your thoughts!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

There is a lovely and floriferous lemon-white climbing rose -- a presumed Tea/Noisette found near Manchester, CA. It's fragrant, has great disease-resistance, blooms a lot, and can climb on your fence. It is viciously prickly.

It is "Manchester Guardian Angel," named for the lovely marble angel in the old cemetery where it was collected by Joyce Demits.

Vintage Guardens would be your source, tho it also grows in the Sacramento City Cemetery and the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden.

Other nastily-prickly beauties include 'Mermaid,' and 'Lady Carolina' (which is almost never out of bloom).

Jeri

Here is a link that might be useful: Manchester Guardian Angel at HMF


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

I like Jeri's suggestions since these roses are not the large hybrid-tea type that most people would be inclined to steal. In your place I would be so furious. Sad to think such people exist. I hope your manzanita makes a full recovery.

Ingrid


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

  • Posted by hoovb z9 Southern CA (My Page) on
    Thu, Jun 16, 11 at 13:34

Security camera.


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

Harison's Yellow will remove the flesh from their bones; only a once-bloomer, but so beautiful when covered with flowers.


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

Back in the mid 1980s, while working as a volunteer at The Huntington Library at an Old Garden Rose Symposium, a very lovely lady asked me if I could propagate Waldtraut Nielsen, a moss in the Study Plot for her. I took a look at the rose and later asked her what I'd done to offend her! Talk about THORNY! It had layered itself, so she went home with what she wanted. She had a sixteen year old daughter, who, if as pretty as her mom was, NEEDED that security to prevent young men from using that window! LOL! Once flowering, not terribly fragrant, large pink flowers and enormous plant!

Fakir's Delight is a Bracteata-Moss Ralph Moore created. It is fearfully thorned, yet can be handled carefully without damaging you as they are hooked downward and dense like a bed of nails. Relatively large flowers in shaded white reminiscent of Sombreuil with an unusual peach scent. Heavily repeat flowering on a large plant.

I know there is one I'm forgetting. It will rip me as soon as I go out to the pot ghetto. Oh, well! LOL! Kim


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

Constance Spry, one of the first, if not THE first David Austin rose, is a once-blooming climber with a marvelous fragrance and copious, wicked, armor-piercing thorns.
I vaguely remember a story about some burglars who tried to escape up and over a wall covered with Constance. Nothing doing. They were all impaled -- and apprehended. Where she's happy, she can easily and quickly become a 12 foot Kraken.

Kay

PS: I certainly hope your manzanita recovers, and that whoever is responsible for those acts of tree vandalism does battle with whatever new climber you choose -- and bears the consequences.

Here is a link that might be useful: Constance Spry climber


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

I wish you all could see the grin on my face as I read about these roses you've mentioned that I get to go research now! You know, I just came under the old rose spell this year, and I honestly can't get enough, so this has turned into a thrilling opportunity to dwell on them even more. I am about to finish a job and go on vacation, so will spend delightful hours mulling over your suggestions, but a cursory look so far and I am thinking maybe I need one of everything. . . and a security camera. ; ) You've eclipsed my sadness for the Manzanita with your generosity, humor and bounty of ideas. You've really made my day-Thank You from the bottom of my heart! Jinny


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

  • Posted by cziga Zone 5 -Toronto (My Page) on
    Thu, Jun 16, 11 at 16:58

I'm not sure it falls into the "thorniest rose of all" category, but the most vicious one I grow is Celine Forrestier. Such innocent looking blooms, but the thorns on mine are awful!! I have to winter protect her up here, and getting mulch anywhere near the canes (on or off) is painful :)


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Eglantine is formidable, pink flowers and once blooming only, but then you have the scented leaves.

Cath


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

Albertine is a great, fragrant rambler--It is a once-bloomer but well worth the wait each year.
The thorns are ( in the words of Penelope Hobhouse) "VICIOUS"
Here it is covering one end of our home---

Florence


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

Fisherman's Friend is wicked in my garden. But the blooms and fragrance are worth it!


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

My vote goes to the David Austin rose, Gertrude Jekyll. It's a rebloomer, has the best fragrance of all roses (to my nose), and is the thorniest monster this side of Brer Rabbit's briar patch. If you have a slightly evil streak, you will plant this one because people will really want to steal blooms off of it, but will then be impaled.


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

Make sure your homeowner's insurance is quite good. You're creating an "attractive nuisance". Huntington originally had the wrought iron fences around his mansion in San Marino covered with climbing roses. People waiting for the street cars stole his flowers continually, angering him to the point of replacing them with thorny, green plants. Don't blame him at all! Kim


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

  • Posted by fogrose zone 10/sunset 17 (My Page) on
    Sat, Jun 18, 11 at 20:45

rosa mulliganii is an amazingly vigorous thorny rose with NO disease, just beautiful shining leaves even in part shade in foggy pacifica. though once blooming it's an astonishing flush and the thorns are evil. great musky fragrance too.

fogrose


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  • Posted by seil z6 MI (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 19, 11 at 19:28

I don't have a lot of OGRs but my Rose de Rescht has some pretty nasty pickers! I know your not looking for HTs but the two thorniest ones of those I've ever seen are Snowfire and Falling in Love. I hate to have to do anything with them! Oh, BTW, don't get Reine des Violettes...she's thornless, lol!


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

These are my nastiest, all need to be sprayed around here for black spot but it may not be a problem in your area. I can't vouch for the fragrance as I don't have a good sniffer. Mine get pretty big but I don't like to prune. Except for the BS all are healthy and vigorous. All are good bloomers.

Madame de Sombreuil - Climber. Big (15'), white .
Traviata - Upright about 8', medium red. Classified as an HT but looks more like a shrub. I have 3, one is in partial shade and is still healthy. Since you like dark colors this may be your best bet.
Crocus rose -Upright about 8'. pink to yellow to white depending on the temps. It must have some rugosa in it's liniage.


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

I second Harison's Yellow, has THE nastiest thorns I ever saw. But mine is slow growing.

An ogr I rooted has pretty nasty thorns, is dark red small blooms, once bloomer. The good thing about that one is that in no time it forms a huge shrub with canes like a fountain. The bad thing is I don't know what it is and that kind of rose chokes out most weeds but, over time, can get viney stuff going through it like that Virginia Creeper, if you don't pull it out. So far so good with mine.

Awakening, a Paul Barden rose, great repeat bloomer. It will climb tall tree or will form a carpet of canes that have sharp, nasty thorns, the usual kind only bad. It would require work to keep it as a large shrub, maybe just let it loose in your zone and see what happens. Since mine is a climber, has nothing to climb on, it has spread all over a little garden spot. You wouldn't get the dieback in winter that I do. I have a knack for putting stuff in the wrong places.

I can't think of anything darker. You know what? You could put in a bunch of raspberry bushes along there, too. I don't know about the thorns on the red everbearing ones but the black can get difficult to pick because of thorns.

Really, if you could find some variety that forms a plant like in my photos, that would keep most anything out, spaced maybe 20 feet apart.

The first shot was taken in June 2009, and the second June 2011. Maybe some more expert rosarians could recommend something with that growth habit but sited nicer than I can mine. Even when not blooming, it's a nice green.

DarkPink2

Backyard1


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RE: Correction

Awakening is not a Paul Barden Rose, had read that it wasn't the other day and have had it in my head that it is. I thought I had two of his roses, Hettie (2 plants), and can't remember what the other one is, if there is/was one.


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

You have my sympathy for your pilfered loss.

The rose species R. rugosa and many of its' hybrids repeat bloom well, and most are
-very prickly!
-and have very disease resistant foliage.
-and are very fragrant.

one of my favorite roses of the Rugosa class is
"Blanc Double de Courbet" from 1893
It is extremely fragrant, and the petals have a delicate tissue paper appearance.
On rootstock it will grow quickly. hortico.com sells it and pickeringnurseries.com may have it as well.
"Magnifica" (there are two roses of this name, only one is a rugosa) is my favorite pink Rugosa and to my nose it is even more intensely fragrant than the rugosa wild rose species. In the S.F. Bay area "Magnifica" will grow to be a mounded plant that is 6 feet tall with an 8' diameter.
I'm sad to say that I believe it may be possible that a wedding caterer or vendor to a florist may be harvesting your manzanita branches. Such things are sold at a great cost in the local market, and the cost to the thief is nil. A local newspaper had an article about how a homeowner in Rockridge lost so many branches of her dogwood tree when it flowered in spring, in her front yard that she was considering transplanting the tree to her backyard.

Manzanita would make a sophisticated bouquet with its' ornamental bark.

Luxrosa


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I second Blanc Double de Courbet. Just planted one this year and can already tell it will be a beast when it comes to thorns.


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

Wow, everyone! I just got back to checking the forum after a couple days of travel, and found all these other informative, funny posts. Thanks! I've spent the evening pouring over your suggestions and getting to know some maginficent roses. It is fascinating how utility can increase the delight in a thing...a thing already lovely can become so powerful in that elegance-and much more than the sum of it's parts. These evil beauties have really captured my imagination. Many, many thanks for sharing your stirring pictures, knowledge, and wit. I am going to share your suggestions and research with my husband, who got left home in Cal and it can be our
naughty little project...planning our "attractive nuisances" (ha! Roseseek)
together! How very romantic! I'll post an update as soon as we take action-I am thinking tho that this whole thing may have permanently warped my aesthetic...a whole thorny, poisonous garden? Maybe not, but it is wickedly fun to imagine. Jovy, yes! I love the B'rer rabbit image! Apt in more ways than you know! Happy, grateful thoughts to you all! Jinny


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

Wow, everyone! I just got back to checking the forum after a couple days of travel, and found all these other informative, funny posts. Thanks! I've spent the evening pouring over your suggestions and getting to know some maginficent roses. It is fascinating how utility can increase the delight in a thing...a thing already lovely can become so powerful in that elegance-and much more than the sum of it's parts. These evil beauties have really captured my imagination. Many, many thanks for sharing your stirring pictures, knowledge, and wit. I am going to share your suggestions and research with my husband, who got left home in Cal and it can be our
naughty little project...planning our "attractive nuisances" (ha! Roseseek)
together! How very romantic! I'll post an update as soon as we take action-I am thinking tho that this whole thing may have permanently warped my aesthetic...a whole thorny, poisonous garden? Maybe not, but it is wickedly fun to imagine. Jovy, yes! I love the B'rer rabbit image! Apt in more ways than you know! Happy, grateful thoughts to you all! Jinny


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

Monsieur Tillier is a rose I don't like to have to get too near...even to pick flowers. Enormous thorns on my plant.


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Mermaid is one tough lady. Back hooks, I tell ya! I have similar problems with dog walkers letting their " pumpkins" pee on my rose bushes...not to mention the free number two deposits!

I hate to impale the innocent pooch with a thorn in the nose upon sniffing to see if this is the right bush, when it is really the owner who doesn't realize that the rose "muffin" is sealing with her approval may be on my dinner table tonight! So that idea of a security camera amuses me!

I agree, it might be a florist type...that really is mean, to have to plant our prettiest pretties in the backyard so only we can enjoy them lest they be stolen...or peed upon!


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

Unfortunately, in many areas, socio economic classes aside, if it is reachable from the street, it is "public domain" and as free as the bowl of candy on an office reception counter. I can show you front yards which are partially secured with heavy, tight wire fencing to prevent side walk passers-by from helping themselves to the grapes the home owner attempts to grow in their only patch of sun. Roses behind tall fences because not only the flowers but plants themselves are seen as free for the taking. I've experienced that in a gated community. Plants, flowers, fruit, anything there treated as if it was common ground and part of the benefits of living there.

Front yard landscaping, for the most part, has to be things which don't matter if they are "lifted", because in most areas, it WILL be. If you intend to grow things for consumption, whether it's fruit and veggies or cutable flowers, sturdy fences and walls (or a very unfriendly dog!) are the only ways to make sure what you expect to be there WILL be when you expect it to be. Says more for the values of a huge segment of our society than anything else. As if the physical has become valued like anything online is. If it's there, it's free. Kim


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Harison's Gold is as nasty as pretty. I saw it trimmed into a hedge which was interesting. Personally I like the fountain like huge mound they grow into when allowed to grow freely. NO ONE would tangle with it. The sunshine yellow mass of blooms will be a show stopper, expect knocks on your door asking which rose it is when it blooms.
Rosa Rogosa is a rose with an attitude as well...nice rich pink blooms that go all season and ends with big fat red rose hips. The crinkled leaves are very showy.
Good luck.
Smiles,
D..


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

  • Posted by lois PA Zone 6 (My Page) on
    Sat, Jul 9, 11 at 22:25

Sarah Van Fleet. She's got thorns like sharks teeth. Grow a bunch of them in a hedge and nothing will get past it without leaving most of its skin behind. She is a rugosa hybrid that does not sucker, but grows about 8 feet tall with pink double/semi double fragrant flowers. I planted one next to a window and the fragrance drifts into the room when she is in full bloom.

Following is a picture of Sarah's thorns (You might remember this picture from last summer when I was worried that all that thorny growth might be RRD, but it turned out to be just Sarah responding to heavy pruning).

Following is not a great picture of Sarah's flowers. You can just see a little of her pink flowers right up against the window with the blue shutter.


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Mix her with Secret Garden! Long, hooked and sharp! Grows like a bushy, dense, climbing mound which could probably be sheared like a hedge. Very fragrant and nearly ever blooming, too! Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Secret Garden


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

  • Posted by tare zone5b (My Page) on
    Mon, Jul 11, 11 at 17:08

It's sad that people can be such creeps. I recently had all the tomatoes (even small green ones) stolen off my only tomato plant. I have it in a pot and it now resides in my house under growlight. I decided trying to burglerproof it was just too expensive for what tomatoes I would harvest. Today I found a plant I put where the tomato plant was with a branch broken and leaves torn off. Punishment I fear for my putting the tomato plant out of their reach! I wont be growing any tomatoes anymore until I move (hopefully next year......)


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

Lois, now you just have to tell us what the gorgeous pink rose in the front of the picture is. What I can see of your garden is lovely!

Ingrid


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David Austin's Tamora -- exquisite peach blooms, disease-free, strong myrrh scent and has a personal vendetta against us. I also "recommend" Soleil d'Or: not only are the canes heavily armed, the stems are short. Gorgeous yellow-orange blooms and pineapple-scented calyxes. Finally, why not consider the old Moss, Laneii? I was new to roses the first time I met her and, this is true, screamed. The canes look prehistoric: solid thorns. Powerfully fragrant deep pink blooms, but you need chain mail to approach this girl.


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There's one small rose that is specific enough to point its thorns at rose blossom stealers -- Rose Gilardi -- it cannot even be deadheaded with bare hands. It's quite a surprise if you're out doing the deadheading and forget to take special care with this one. And it stays short, also, making it seem even more innocuous.


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Tare-a pox on your tomato thieves and branch breakers! You know, we could start a whole trend in vengence gardening! OOOOhhh, Lois! Thanks for the shots of Sarah. What a dream to have a scented climber up at the window like that! We just put in a Gloire de Dijon in this year by our bedroom window-but just a band. It will take a while! ! Kathy, you got my number on the Rose Gilardi, as I am becoming obsessed with mosses! I like that it is a cute little menace. That makes me laugh. Pgraveolens, Tamora is so lush and romantic! I love her! Soleil d'Or is also irresistible! Going to go over all these choices with my husband tonight. Our idea of a fine evening! Thank you for the wine of your contributions. . . to put it in flowery prose!


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

  • Posted by oath5 z6b/7a MD (My Page) on
    Sat, Jul 16, 11 at 6:56

For a Beauty come Beast rose..'Roseraie de L'Hay' rugosa not only has some of the best perfume, but it also is head to toe covered in sharp needles. Just another suggestion.

'Plaisanterie' the Mutabilis/Trier seedling is not thornless either and actually quite vicious and a climber to boot.


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Mon, Jul 18, 11 at 21:18

Easily grown rose being circulated under the study name "Darlow's Enigma" arms itself with fish hooks. Up here I see this one in yards that have few, if any other roses - that's how carefree and distinctive it is.


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

  • Posted by lois PA Zone 6 (My Page) on
    Mon, Jul 18, 11 at 21:47

The deep pink rose is the climber Parade.

So sorry about the tomato thieves. I have a 4-footed one: A chipmunk who is eating all the leaves off my cantaloupe and stole 2 baby fruits.

I grew Darlow's Enigma for a while, and I agree it is a very tough rose that flowers all summer long.


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RE: Rose with the Nastiest Thorns

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Wed, Jul 20, 11 at 1:19

Effectively commemorating his losing of the correct name, Darlow named it after himself when I showed him it wasn't the Rosa moschata 'Plena' he had been growing and selling it as. Presumably (but not necessarily) it had its own unique name - when he first got the rose from "a lady in the Willamette Valley" - that needs to be brought to general awareness.

I keep repeating this in order to reiterate that "Darlow's Enigma" should be viewed and used as a study name only.


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