The plant is in a large container, and is probably about 6-7' tall and maybe 5' wide? The container is on the ground, and it's at least a foot taller than me, as I realized looking at some photos I took.

The blooms can look quite tea-like (� la 'Maman Cochet' or 'Mme Jos Schwartz') but the blooms show their stamens, so probably not Teas?

The color is creamy white with an occasional pinkish tinge on the outer petals that is probably virus-induced.

Will post a couple of follow-up pix, but if you need a better photo for ID, please tell me what you want to see & I'll try to supply an additional photo or two.

I posted this query on 'Name that Rose' first with different photos, and got no response- maybe someone here will recognize this lovely old rose?

Thanks,
Virginia

Thanks for any help you can provide.

(Love your photos!)

I'm hesitant to disagree with Jeri, whom I esteem greatly. , however, to me the foliage of your rose appears to be different from the 'Ducher' I grew, I see your rose as having thicker leaves, (not wider) for instance.
I got rid of 'Ducher' because it defoliated from powdery mildew.
The foliage appears immaculate, does your friend spray with anything?
If I remember correctly the new foliage of 'Ducher' is reddish, and reddish- green.
- could you please post photographs;
1. Of new foliage, when the leaves are about 1/3rd of their mature size, and less. ?
2. of an 18" length of cane showing armature, and hips, if any?
I would guess your rose is an early Hybrid Tea, perhaps a Tea-Hybrid, a rose that has a Tea parent; I'd say a Tea parent because it has such short and thin pedicles, with the nodding flowers one sees in Tea class roses and their immediate hybrids such as 'Mrs. Herbert Stevens'
However your beautiful white rose does not seem to be as floriferous as I'd expect 'Ducher' to be, which leads my mind to the Hybrid Tea class.
Could you please:
-measure off a square yard of the bush, near the top of the canopy, when it is in full bloom and count the number of rosebuds and blooms?
A typical Hybrid Tea with a canopy that is 5' tall by 4' wide often has between 30 to 40 blooms.
An Old Garden Tea of the same size can have more than 400 blooms on the same measure of canopy.
(I'm a bit of a nut for documentation when it comes to roses, and I spent hours counting rose blossoms per cultivar in the H.T. and Tea classes, when I was volunteering in a public Old Rose garden) which is how I came to that average.

The last criteria I use in identifying a rose that I use is fragrance, there are so many pink H.T.s that have similar blooms, prickles and leaves that a few times the scent of bloom led me to identifying a rose that had stumped me.

Does your rose have any scent?
Strength of scent between 1 and 10, with 10 being the strongest.
Type of scent:
A. Damask type. The scent we hope for when we put a red modern rose to our nose.
B. Sweet, with mixed floral notes.
C. Old Garden Tea, which can be complex with several scent notes.
D. Fresh scent, may smell a bit like a green apple.
E. does it have another dominant scent note? such as "ripe stone fruit"
or a spice such as clove?
F. Other.

Could someone please do a search on helpmefind.com for a
-white
-Hybrid Tea
- introduced before 1940?
Because I lack a paying membership, or I would be glad to do it myself.

It is a lovely rose, thanks for posting photos.
Lux.

P.S.
Heck, now that I've written all this I looked up photos of my favorite white Tea-Hybrid; 'Mrs. Herbert Stevens' on helpmefind.com/roses under "search".
'Mrs. Herbert Stevens was introduced in 1910, It is a Tea-Hybrid that was bred by crossing the seed parent, a Hybrid Perpetual named
'Frau Karl Druski' with
the pollen parent of an exquisite white Tea rose named 'Niphetos' .
I've suggested Mrs. Herbert Stevens to folks who want a Tea rose but live in a colder climate than a Tea can tolerate..
the climbing form was introduced in 1922.
I think that, lacking photos of the prickles and scent description 'Mrs. Herbert Stevens' may be your rose, especially after I looked at the the bloom of it posted by Ami Roses 2005.
I also think the foliage of your rose more closely resembles M.H.S. than 'Ducher'. Bloom alone makes up only c. 25% of the identification criteria.
whatever it is, it's a stunner!

Lux.

Now, I just wish MY mysterious white rose was as identifiable.

Before I forget to mention it, this rose is also pretty care-free. It gets watered and probably fertilized on occasion, but not sprayed, and I haven't seen any signs of black spot or other problems.

I did search around HMF quite a bit before asking here. I looked at 'Ducher', 'Mme Joseph Schwartz', 'White Maman Cochet', and 'Mrs Herbert Stevens'- they are all so beautiful, but I didn't see that the flowers showed their stamens (is there a better term for this?) as consistently as these flowers. I keep wanting to say open-faced, but that sounds like a sandwich.

'Ducher' has all that lovely red foliage, and I haven't noticed that with this plant, but I do think the flowers look similar from the side. I haven't seen any of those full, petally blooms on this plant to match the photos of Ducher, though.

The rose is pleasantly- though not strongly- fragrant, but I'd hesitate to say it's tea-like. It smells rose-like, as opposed to just generically floral. My sense of smell is not always reliable, and it's been a few weeks since I last smelled them so I'm reluctant to say more.

The ID I was mulling over longest is Pemberton's 'Pax'. It has similarly silky-looking petals, and combines those open-faced blooms showing stamens with a profile that looks tea-like to me. Do you think that's possible, or not so much?

I know I may be wayyyy off base with that, and I'm going mostly by the flower shape, but the leaves and buds also look somewhat like online photos- at least to my untrained eye, and I am very, very new to roses. The Hybrid Tea look would fit, wouldn't it, given Pax's Pernetiana heritage?

The rose is not blooming just now- I went and took some cuttings from it- and several other roses- this afternoon. Hopefully, I'll get some roots on a few of those cuttings. Whoever it is, it does well in this climate, so I know I want to try it.

It is starting to set hips now, but I forgot my camera, so will have to try again in a few days for more photos of new foliage & prickles. (I'm guessing that prickles = thorns?)

Meanwhile, I'm including a link to my original post at the 'Name that Rose' forum, since it has a different set of photos.

Thanks again for looking,
Virginia

I also meant to ask that about 'Ducher' and its reddish foliage- should I expect to see reddish foliage on a 'Ducher' at any time of year, or just sometimes?

First pic is of an open bloom - they do this consistently - looks just like your pic to me.

Jackie

Jackie

But in the HMF photos she looks consistently peachy, and this rose is pretty consistently creamy white with a few touches of pink that I suspect are virus-induced.

MJB goes on my dream-about rose list, but I think those photos that Jackie posted of her 'Pax' have convinced me that that's the same rose...

The buds look so much alike, too. Until I started trying to compare buds in photos, I pretty much assumed that a rosebud was a rosebud, but they are surprisingly- to me, anyway- variable.

After reading what you wrote about late-stage buds, I went back to look for a match in any of my photos. I didn't find one, but there's a bud in the attached photo that looks like it's thinking about trying out that pose- what do you think?

I am trying to think positively, and so am assuming at least one cutting will root for me. Any quirks about 'Pax' that you think I should know about? Is she disease-free where you are? I can give her a sunny spot if she needs it, but if she doesn't mind dappled shade, I can keep her closer to the house where I can see her more easily. Space is not a problem, and we have great compost on offer, so lighting is really my only concern.

Thanks to everyone who posted- I learned a lot.

Virginia

Here is a pic I just took 5 minutes ago of the last bloom on my Pax bush right now (although there are more clusters of baby buds - yay!). Looks even more like the open bloom vmr423 posted above, and the one on the link. ALL of the blooms on my Pax do this (open fully and show their stamens), eventually.

Mine hardly ever sets hips - the little stems the flowers are on just dry up and fall off.

vmr423 - yes, the late stage bud (I knew there had to be a term for that!) you posted looks right. Also, the buds on my bush, as soon as they start to show color, are a noticeable cream color, and then turn creamy white. The buds in your pics appear to be doing the same thing.

The next time yours blooms, please post lots of pics of the late stage buds - mine get quite large, and are gorgeous.

My bush is growing in fairly dark partial shade. It probably only gets 1-2 hours of direct sun a day. I am sure it would like more, and would bloom more if it got more sun, but it does OK and is healthy - I never spray any of my roses.

Hope this is helpful.

Jackie, your rose certainly looks healthy, so your shady location obviously suits it pretty well. That's a relief since we have lots of trees, so not a lot of out-and-out full sun.

I wasn't sure if you had to spray to keep it looking so nice, but the one here manages our heat and humidity pretty well without much attention (well, except when I come to visit and drool over it). Good news since I don't like to use any chemicals in the yard.

The rose here is definitely setting some hips- I wonder if that's because it's in a fairly sunny location. It is not ready to bloom again- I didn't see any buds when I visited yesterday- but I will keep an eye out for the budding behavior you described (and photographed). Something to look forward to...

I've got some cuttings of Lady Banks (yellow and white versions) that look like they're rooting. Yesterday, I took cuttings of 'Pax', 'Mutabilis', a rose that I think may be 'Mrs B R Cant', and also a rose with a small, fragrant, lovely purple flower that might be 'Reine des Violettes'. I figure that any or all of these will be good 'beginner roses' for my location.

Thanks again,
Virginia

Even if the cuttings take, I know there's no guarantee that they'll do well here, but I think my chances are good since they're time-tested roses for our area/climate.

Thanks again,
Virginia

Yours, though, is a certified 'Pax', and I have a feeling that it will do well for you- it seems to be a sturdy and adaptable variety.

Be sure to post photos when it blooms! (When do you usually see roses start blooming in your part of Oz?)

Best regards,
Virginia

Starting with thorns...