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Flea Market Find

Posted by mauvegirl8 Texas (My Page) on
Sun, Jun 22, 14 at 18:23

Sunday at the flea market:

I bought this beauty. The color is vibrant and beautiful. Of course, it wasn't labeled.

There are only a few plant stands at the flea market. I get the overall impression that they either work or buy surplus from one of our chain nurseries. some of the pots used are labeled Weeks or Jackson Perkins. I saw an Heirloom rose.

My first thought was Reine Des Violettes. Point me in the right direction.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Flea Market Find

The rose was in a black generic pot.
Scent is strong & maybe spicy. Blooms are clustered.
It is virtually thornless. Climber?


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RE: Flea Market Find

This was quite the find at $6.00!

This post was edited by mauvegirl8 on Sun, Jun 22, 14 at 18:36


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RE: Flea Market Find

This would be quite a find at more than $6.00! I can't imagine anyone wanting to sell this beauty when they could keep it for themselves. I'm guessing RdV because of the smoothness of the canes. It's drop-dead gorgeous.

Ingrid


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RE: Flea Market Find

Only $6 for that beauty? I hope you bought a lottery ticket on your way home...

Enviously,
Virginia


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RE: Flea Market Find

There were 2 lavender roses, maybe Angel Face or Blue Girl. One that resembled Hermosa. A mauve rose was clearly labeled Heirloom as I thought before reading the tag. As somewhat still a novice, it feels good when I can ID a rose correctly.

In general, people at the flea market/swap meet are just trying to make a buck. I don't think they care about the name.

Humidity made the heat intolerable today. Drinking an ice cold coconut opened in front of me $4 was refreshing. Yes, a day at the flea market is always an adventure! If you love parakeets, exotic parrots, bunnies.....

Please identify this rose if you disagree.


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RE: Flea Market Find

This color will offset the drab color of Aschermittwoch or Ash Wednesday.


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RE: Flea Market Find

Close up of cane


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RE: Flea Market Find

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 22, 14 at 21:38

I'm not sure that's Reine des Violettes. The color and the form doesn't seem quite right to me.


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RE: Flea Market Find

I think the foliage is a little too glossy for Reine des Violettes. I just went out and looked at one and the foliage (for me at least) is very much in line with earlier hybrids. There's a light grey-green or perhaps closer to olive tone and no gloss whatsoever to the foliage of the clones from ARE I've purchased. Seil's picture shows foliage just slightly darker than I'm used too -and I have yet to experience Chlorosis- but it is the right sort of flat/dull green that I would expect.

The blooms aren't quite as flat in profile or individually distinct in form as I would expect either. It's lovely, but I'm not so sure that it's RdV.

Jay


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RE: Flea Market Find

Could it be Ebb Tide?

Since most of the local nurseries sell Weeks or the likes, does it resemble a modern variety? Keep in mind that in Houston, purple roses lean towards magenta or fuschia. Never as dark as you Northerners see.

This post was edited by mauvegirl8 on Sun, Jun 22, 14 at 22:54


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RE: Flea Market Find

It looks like one of the Carruth mauves to me. Perhaps Ebb Tide, but it's MUCH more vigorous than any Ebb Tide I've ever seen. It's much too "modern" to be an OGR and the foliage really looks "Carruth" to me. Kim


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RE: Flea Market Find

The flower form is intriguing- almost a dahlia-form petal pattern. Most of the blue/mauve roses that I'm familiar with are more ruffled, and not as reflexed (hope I'm using the term correctly).

I hope you'll get a good ID- I'm quite curious to know what you've got there...

Good luck,
Virginia


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RE: Flea Market Find

I thought Ebb tide also I had it a couple of years ago!


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RE: Flea Market Find

In our area a flea market plant may have come from a cemetery. i.e. the rate of evaporation of potted plants (even when the pot is sunk in the ground) from cemeteries is very high (like the next day).


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The question is, how many purple roses are there that have no thorns? There might be scads but I'm not aware of them. The flowers look more "old rose" to me than the Ebb Tide I had. I must confess I like mauvegirl's rose better than the RdV that seil pictures, which is too bad since I fairly recently also bought a RdV. I hope someone can figure out what this mystery rose is because I really like it.

Ingrid


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RE: Flea Market Find

I have RdV, and Ebb Tide and it doesn't look like the growth habit of RdV. Ebb Tide has really dark green leaves that I believe have a different appearance. The blooms seem different too. Honestly, just looking at the blooms, they remind me more so of my Young Lycidas right now, but I know Mauvegirl is very familiar with that one, and the growth habit looks to be off for that one.

It is very pretty! Good luck identifying it.

Lynn

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Thu, Jun 26, 14 at 16:36


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RE: Flea Market Find

Is it remotely possible that it could be a Bourbon, such as 'Frédéric II de Prusse'?


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I've reconsidered it the blooms on Ebb Tide are pretty erect & don't nod even when it's a band


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Back to the drawing board.


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RE: Flea Market Find

Popping out of my hole to offer a possible ID. I must be wrong since no one else has come up with this. How about Zephirine Drouhin? The pics on HMF are the same color, thornless, climber, Bourbon. Great deal, mauvegirl!

Sherry


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new bloom not completely open
I think Zephirine's blooms are more loose and blousy


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4 days of rain
Clusters were weighing cane down


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I see at the most 2 thorns.


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I am weighing in with Kim here. My daughter is a massive fan of purple roses, leading me to investigate many of the Carruth purples (I started with Outta the Blue and Wide Blue Yonder) and I swear there is something very reminiscent of those Weeks purples....and I also think the foliage has a modern look.


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I'm curious about these Carruth-looking leaves. According to HMF, Carruth used several NZ roses in his purple rose breeding program, such as 'Stephen's Big Purple' and the McGredy purple roses.

Do the leaves of this rose look distinctively Carruth in a way that differs from the McGredy purples- or the other roses that Carruth worked with?

I look at 'Old Port', 'Blackberry Nip' or 'Big Purple' and I see a bloom form that strikes me as more old-fashioned than the Carruth purples, but I don't know how the foliage compares.

I can imagine that some breeders who are interested in disease-resistance might pay as much attention- or even more- to the foliage of a rose as to the blooms. It seems likely that certain disease-resistant roses will get used more as a seed or pollen parent, so that a breeder could get a distinctive look to to his plants' leaves.

I'm just wondering how much of a difference there might be in foliage from one generation to the next, if that makes sense?

Here is a link that might be useful: HMF info on 'Big Purple'


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RE: Flea Market Find

I simply do not know enough about Week's roses but I do know that Harkness pay huge attention to the foliage, making a great fuss of describing the 'tough and glossy. foliage on their roses....which definitely interests me since my older Harkness roses, while having lovely innovative blooms, have all been weak on disease resistance. The breeding programme has concentrated in breeding roses which have leaves of considerable substance, resisting mildew and other fungal spores. Interestingly, I am looking at the most disease resistant roses bred by Kordes...and many seem to have numerous small leaves . Of course, any of my vague observations should be taken with a hearty pinch of salt as I am notoriously shaky on plant science and am looking at a tiny sample....but it does look as though breeders are paying attention to the whole plant rather than just a pretty face...and, as leaves are the engine which drives growth, it would come as no surprise to hear that certain breeders have looking to repeat winning traits including growth habits, rebloom, amount of foliage, texture of petals....which are not immediately apparent at a casual glance


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RE: Flea Market Find

I've heard good things about Kordes' newer roses being disease-resistant in a variety of conditions- how interesting that many of the roses you've looked at have similar foliage types.

I wonder if having smaller leaves is beneficial in itself (smaller target for pests/fungi or promotes better air circulation?), or if the similarity of appearance is a result of using certain disease-resistant parents who just happen to also have small leaves? Sorry- I do tend to overthink things.

But I wasn't trying to hijack this thread- I was wondering if the Carruth-like foliage of the rose in question means this is likely to be a Carruth plant, or if that leaf look could be seen as a clue to check out plants with similar ancestry...

Given your familiarity with the Carruth roses, do you think any of them has a flower shape that's pretty similar to that of mauvegirl's rose?

From what I know about plant genetics (mostly from working with camellias), a plant with a dominant leaf trait is likely to bequeathe that trait to most of its offspring, even if the parent plant is chosen for reasons unrelated to leaf shape. But Mendeleev I'm not, so I may be off-base with this line of inquiry...


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RE: Flea Market Find

It appears to me the smaller foliage is more a result of the German (and other very cold hardy lines) being as solidly based upon The Fairy and a few other varieties solidily based on Wichurana as they are. You see similar type foliage in the Noak Flower Carpet roses. It can take quite a while to break out of a trait like that, and it could easily be possible that the size and resistance of the foliage are genetically linked. Perhaps some information that provides increased resistance to fungal attacks also help determine the size of the foliage? I dunno, but stranger things have been determined. Kim


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RE: Flea Market Find

Yes, there's a good possibility that the traits could be linked genetically. You wouldn't say that the small leaves are responsible for the resistance, but if they're linked, you can't have one trait without the other...


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