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alla_pa

Please, help ID this French beauty

alla_pa
15 years ago

On our recent trip to France we visited an 11th century castle. They had a medecinal roof top garden with lots of herbs and such and a few roses here and there. I fell in love with one of them, and I would like to find out who is this beauty. She is about 6-7 foot tall and wide.

I'll appreciate any help.

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Comments (15)

  • peplill
    15 years ago

    Just a guess, R Roxburghii?
    There is a photo of the flower only of R. Rox.
    in Susan Irvine's Rose Gardens in Australia pg 198, that looks exactly the same.
    Good luck, it is beautiful!

  • aliska12000
    15 years ago

    That is scrumptious. There is one by that name aka Chestnut or Burr rose, but I don't think it is the same. I found a couple of photos, but none nearly as pretty as that one.

    This is the closest I can find at the hopefully useful link. Scroll down to R. roxburghii plena burr-less 1 f and same only 2 f. Any other photos I did see didn't look much like it, a couple. Rogue Valley roses has it but no photo. Ashdown Roses *may* have one, slightly different description and no photo said they got it from Rose Peddlers Nursery who got it from Charles Walker's parent's garden. Zone 6 there.

    While I was looking, came across this unusual single with "curlicues", cute, Martha Gonzales Climbing.

    Forget the long url, just google "Rose Peddlers Nursery" in quotes, and it is in Ashdown library.

    Here is a link that might be useful: R. Roxburghii plena bur-less

  • User
    15 years ago

    Thats R. roxburghii', I'm sure of it. Did you happen to notice the buds were oddly shaped with large thornlike structures on its surface? That is characteristic of R. roxburghii'.

  • alla_pa
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thank you guys,
    Sure, it looks like she is R. Roxburghii plena.
    Trospero, unfortunatelly, I did not look for buds. The castle itself and the grounds were so expansive and interesting, that I got overwhelemed and did not study the rose a bit closer. But I still can not forget her.

  • nastarana
    15 years ago

    Heaven is a place on earth.

    A castle with a rooftop garden? It can't get any better than that. (sighing with envy)

  • rosemeadow_gardener
    15 years ago

    Alla Pa and fellow posters, thanks for teaching me about this rose and also telling us about the castle roof top garden. Very interesting. I hope to get R.Roxburghii Plena this winter.

  • alla_pa
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    rosemeadow gardener,
    I am happy that I discovered this rose. And it's supposed to be hardy in my zone too. Therefore, I am getting R.Roxburghii next season too!

    nastrana,
    I agree, it was quite an amazing place. Actually, whole region and the city of Angers, in particular, was cool; kind of a neat mixture of medieval and modern times.

    {{gwi:284985}}
    {{gwi:284986}}

  • aliska12000
    15 years ago

    To those of you who plan to purchase it, what vendor offers them and how are you going to be sure you get the best match possible on that rose?

    Be sure you get the right variety as I think the burry one has a much different bloom.

    Those photos are so nice, especially the way people keep the flowers going even if they don't have much green space. Look at those climbers along the narrow front in the 2nd photo!

  • alla_pa
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    You made a good point, Aliska.
    I see it'll be hard to find the exact rose I fell in love with. The burry R. Roxburghii flowers look very different from my French beauty. One of the synonyms of R. Roxburghii on HelpMeFind is Chestnut rose. I've seen Chestnut rose in Ft. Worth Botanic Garden and the flowers of that rose were much smaller, with different petals, and unimpressive color. The picture on HelpMeFind, that matches my picture the closest, was posted by AmyRoses from France. I guess if I have no luck locating a vendor of the variety of R. Roxburgii plena I fell in love with, then I'd have an excuse to go back to France and try to get a few cuttings or seeds from my French beauty, right? ;-).

    It was amazing to see how creative some people were using roofs, balconies, and literally every inch of dirt to grow something beautiful.
    {{gwi:284987}}

  • aliska12000
    15 years ago

    Thanks for the new photo! Charmant!

    I don't know if they would let you bring a cutting into the country or not. Somebody in Canada did order some roses from a European grower, I doubt we can do it in the US, not sure about that. It's going to be quite a challenge to find that exact rose. Maybe it's the bloom stage they are in, and none exactly matches yours, but some aren't nearly so pretty. The closest match I found was that original link I posted to that gallery, and I misspelled burr-less, especially the one of the whole bush.

    Now I didn't look carefully enough, but it appears that particular rose came from Mr. Elder's garden, and it seems he might have gotten a cutting from the Lynchburg, VA cemetery. I've seen that cemetery talked about here, so there is a poster or several who are familiar with that and might be able to offer some suggestions or get or root you one.

    So your best bet is to try to find someone who has some clout with that cemetery or knows Mr. Elder (if still alive) or his garden to get a cutting, or I think it was Rogue Valley? Roses Unlimited? Ashdown? (if they got it from Mr. Elder) as any vendor I found that lists it isn't marketing it now as far as I can tell, and some that do don't have a photo. I wouldn't trust any source unless I could tie it in to that one growing in the Lynchburg Cemetery if that is where those photos were actually taken.

    I think if you are patient, you just may get lucky and have your rose. I'd get at least two for insurance.

    Good luck! I don't have much hope for me getting one, and it would be pretty chancy trying to grow it in my zone plus it's so large. I can sure understand why you fell in love with it.

    Maybe if you wrote the castle management, they might have some suggestions for you, not real hopeful about that. That guy who took those photos never got back to me, yet anyway, but I thought he grew it in his own garden, but now I think he took them in the cemetery or somewhere else.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Mr. Elder's Garden

  • aliska12000
    15 years ago

    The fellow who took the photos answered my email, said he took them at the Lynchburg Cemetery. He said he did purchase a plant at the Lakeland, FL, conference of Heritage Rose Foundation, but didn't say when. He also said that the burrless one was a little more hardy than the burred one.

    I tried HMF again, and if you just put roxburghii and put a dot in "contains", there are all different kinds. Under the plena, there are several photos quite like it. One said Sacramento Cemetery; another Arnold Arboretum.

    It also says commercially available but doesn't list any vendors I could find. I'd still make sure it looks most like the one in your photo. Some under the plena did show buds with little burrs, so I don't know what that's about.

    There's also a beautiful old botanical print of it posted.

    Here is a link that might be useful: R. roxburghii plena at HMF

  • alla_pa
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Aliska,
    Thank you very much for your interst, help, and support.
    I found that Antique rose Emporium has this rose in stock, and Amity Heritage Roses used to offer it (but does not have it in stock this year). I have not contacted to them yet to verify if their plants have exact the same flowers as the one I took pictures of.
    Also, the guy you contacted to, is a member of Heritage rose foundation, and I found a thread where he and other people discussed this rose. One of those people, who is a member of the Foundation too, will give a lecture for PHS this summer. So, I think I will be able to ask him directly.
    Also, there is a good chance that my DH will go again on the business trip to the Loire Valley, so I'll may return to the castle in the soon future. Hopefully, it'll be at the right time for obtaining cuttings or seed.
    I found an article about R. Roxburghii plena, that makes me interested in R.R.p. even more.
    http://www.southernliving.com/southern/gardens/flowers/article/0,28012,422406,00.html

  • anntn6b
    15 years ago

    There's no discerable difference between the smooth hip and the prickly hipped plants (I grow both).
    The color of the bloom is and was distinctive for its time. I ran into Roxburgh in an encyclopedia from the late 1800's and he had an exotic life. But I can imagine his excitement (I'm just assuming for now that he was the first westerner to appreciate this this rose) when he (or anyone else) found this totally exotic color pattern on a big healthy plant.
    The picture of plena in Peter Beales Classic Roses matches yours. Surprisingly, PB doesn't see heavy bloom on it. And that brings up the variations that are culture and climate caused.
    Spring blooms and fall blooms can be different. In my garden, fall heat leads to much wider opening blooms. Spring blooms will happen at every bud axil when spring is wet and wonderful for roses; when spring is dry, there's some stem die back/adjustment and a lot fewer blooms. I also know folks who swear the double form is a once bloomer (They need to pamper their a bit more). (Mine gets any water I poach fish in if I don't turn all the fish water into a sauce.)

  • artemis_pa
    15 years ago

    I have been looking at Enfant de France lately. Then, when I saw the pictures in this thread, I wonder if that is the rose in question.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Enfant de France

  • aliska12000
    15 years ago

    No, I have Enfant, don't think it could be that, a real beauty this year, first decent blooms but there's no contrast from the center to the lighter edges. I think Enfant is an Austin.

    Thank you for all the helpful info, people, I posted to the thread I started titled jeri, and added what I found out today for any who might be interested.