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| I know I will probably not get an answer since most rosarians who frequent this forum are based in the US, but you never know. Some of you have international connections. The question is, where (if) can I get the 'proper' CPC in Europe from. By 'proper' I'm referring to the one described in 'Noisette Roses: Nineteenth-Century Charleston's Gift to the World' which is a large shrub with smallish semidouble blooms which repeats a lot and smells musky-sweet. The one commonly sold as CPC in Europe seems to be a once-flowering climber/rambler with larger better formed blooms not carried in clusters. This is obviously not similar to whatever the original might have been. Nik |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Ok I am new here but is this one from Peter Beales an example of the version you are talking about that is commonly sold here (and not the original)? This one may be more of what you are after http://www.rosenhof-schultheis.de/Suche/artikel_1562_Champneys_Pink_Cluster.html as it looks more like a semi-double. It truly is a very large shrub if they are suggesting it goes 3-4meters tall. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Champney's Pink at Peter Beales
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- Posted by nikthegreek 9b/10a E of Athens (My Page) on Wed, Jul 23, 14 at 5:39
| Hi Ninkasi, Thank you for chiming in. Yes, I was referring to the 'Beales' CPC which does not look like the US one at all. The 'german' one you point out seems to fit the description better. How can one make sure that this is not the same as 'Beales'? Also, please look at the link below to see my comments (as NikosR) and those of other international potential buyers with regards to this german nursery. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Rosenhof Schultheis critique
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| Hi Nik-- thanks for sending along that link. I am sorry you have had trouble with them. Unfortunately, this is quite characteristic of customer service many times in Germany everywhere-- not just rose nurseries, but in nearly every shop, restaurant or industry. Providing good customer service is generally not a priority here. It doesn't matter if you are spending thousands of Euros, sometimes it feels like you are inconveniencing the business by buying something! Greece is quite different, I have fond memories of it there. At times Germans can be similar to the French stereotype when it comes to responding in English.. you will go farther if you contact them in German. I would be happy to translate something for you if you would like. Despite the customer service it does seem that they are very keen on promoting heritage varieties, and it would be a shame to be cut off from what could be a good source! |
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- Posted by nikthegreek 9b/10a E of Athens (My Page) on Wed, Jul 23, 14 at 7:55
| Ninkasi, thank you for your kind offer. The problem is not so much writing something in German, I have basic knowledge of the language, I can navigate their site easily and I could readily find some friend with a better knowledge of the language to help if required. Trouble is I'm not going to go the international phone or fax route which it seems is a requirement in order to do business with them since they don't bother to answer their emails as they themselves state. What if a problem arises on the way? They don't even provide for an electronic payment method so I can envisage nightmares trying to get my payment to them even if I managed to draw their attention somehow. They seem to be content with their local clientele so why bother them anyway? It is a pity though since I really wanted to help the German economy :) Tschüs, Nik |
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| Ninkasi, I would like very much to order from Rosenhof Schultheis, myself,and have sent them an e-mail, twice,recieving no reply. I was assuming that it was because it's July-probably still rose season in Germany-and that they were too busy,and that I should just try again in September, but after reading the critiques on HMF, I wonder if it's worthwhile to even try! I don't know German at all,otherwise I'd just try phoning them ; (I figure that if you e-mail someone, even if they themselves aren't good with English, they could find someone to respond...) Could I be so bold as to ask for your help? I know it's awful cheeky of me,since you offer to help Nik, not me, so please forgive my nerve. I could re-write my e-mail and Google- translate it into German,but it would be so wonderful if a person who actually speaks REAL German (as opposed to Google translator,which can deliver some truly incomprehensible gooble-de-gook) could look it over and correct it for me and render it comprehensible. I must say I find poor customer service very irksome in general,and it would tend to make me want to look elsewhere (it's true; like it or not,nowadays English is the "International" language.In the past, it was French and German,but times have changed) but a few of the roses of this company are unique,and I fully agree that it would be a shame to cut off a good source. And, if they knew that there are several of us non-German speakers...maybe a LOT of us...who would be glad to become clients, perhaps they might see the advantage of working on their communication skills! regards, bart |
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| Alles Klar Nik. Hi Bart--I am happy to help--Maybe the reason you did not get a reply is due to the German way of doing things or rather that they are not shipping containerized plants out of Germany or Austria at this time. From the website they say they not ship anything in containers to the continent, and it isn't yet bare root season. They write on their page-- International deliveries The dispatch of barerooted roses can be made only in these delivery seasons: - spring season : march 15th - april 30th Shipping costs outside Germany are calculated individually! International deliveries will be sent as 'premium parcel' (DHL) only. All parcels are covered by insurance and can be researched until their delivery. If we get your order, it will be reserved for you. After we have weighted your parcel and know the resulting shipping costs to your country, we will send an invoice to you. The invoice has to be pre-payed by creditcard or bankaccount. We deliver your order on the appointed time in autumn or spring-season. If it all sounds good to you, I would be happy to help when that time comes around and you are interested in ordering some roses! Just let me know! |
Here is a link that might be useful: International Shipping Schultheis
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- Posted by nikthegreek 9b/10a E of Athens (My Page) on Wed, Jul 23, 14 at 10:49
| Yeap, that's the only English language part of the whole site. I wanted to understand better the ordering and payment process (no way I was going to do a bank transfer - too costly- and I would hesitate faxing my cc details) and I can envisage any number of problems and costly phone calls in the process, so that's why I emailed them in the first place. That was back in December. Still waiting for a reply lol If the answer had been sent by Pony Express it would have arrived by now I suppose. Anybody knows anything about Champneys' Pink Cluster btw? |
This post was edited by nikthegreek on Wed, Jul 23, 14 at 11:08
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But following up-- Just to try I put an Alba Maxima in my shopping basket and went through the order process with a fake Italian address (up until the final submit button). It seemed quite straightforward to me. You can choose when you want it delivered (Fall at the earliest in your case), and you do not pay right away, rather when it is to be sent. If you have a European address (they say) they will send you an email to continue your order and then you can pay by credit card or bank order. If you are using Google Chrome browser you can right click to translate everything to english, making it pretty simple. I would be interested to see if maybe their attitude is different once you get through the check out process. Let me know if anyone tries it and what happens. |
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- Posted by nikthegreek 9b/10a E of Athens (My Page) on Wed, Jul 23, 14 at 11:18
| Ninkasi, I will take the plunge and try to order a few roses from them. I expect shipping to be costly since they are using registered and insured mail so it probably is not worth it for just a couple of roses. If I cannot complete the process without disclosing cc details in an insecure way and without having to contact them by phone etc I will report back. Nik |
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- Posted by nikthegreek 9b/10a E of Athens (My Page) on Wed, Jul 23, 14 at 11:39
| Well, the first problem I'm having is not being able to get to the bareroots. I either cannot find the correct path in their site or bareroots are not available to pre-order before the bareroot season. Nik PS I just found that bareroot online ordering seems to be available only from sometime in late August if the following google translation is correct 'Autumn-order |
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| Hi Nik, I don't know whether it's of any use to you but John & Becky Hook who have La Roseraie du Desert in France list Champneys Pink Cluster (Beales) in their catalogue. I'm not sure what they mean under 'Description' where it says 'Medium, semi-double flowers in large clusters, bright pink with gold stamens. This is not correct'. Cheers Tricia |
Here is a link that might be useful: Champney's Pink Cluster
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- Posted by nikthegreek 9b/10a E of Athens (My Page) on Thu, Jul 24, 14 at 0:09
| Hi Tricia, Thanks, I have already done that, haven't received an answer yet. I suppose their CPC (Beales) refers to the same rose as listed by Beales' nursery which I mentioned above. John Hook made a comment on HMF back in '10 about trialing a rose which might be the 'right' thing but I see no such thing in their catalog. Nik |
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- Posted by nikthegreek 9b/10a E of Athens (My Page) on Thu, Jul 24, 14 at 4:26
| Good news. Becky Hook just came back to me with this: '..... Yes, we have the true Champney’s Pink Cluster available (for shipment in autumn). It came from Vintage Gardens in the USA so we can confirm it is not the other sold in Europe (which we also have and is very different).....' Nik |
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| This is VERY helpful, maties!!! special thanks to Ninkasi. I think I'll try doing as you did,though I will have to wait until late August or September or so,I guess. Sad to say, I do sort of agree with Nik's objections, but I really, really would like a Souvenir of J. Mermet ,for example. According to HMF,Stange has it, but it's not listed on their site (I ordered from them last year and was very pleased;no communication issues at all).Martin Weingart has it, but a couple years ago I tried ordering from them through e-mail, and they never responded either, so I guess they think like the people at Schultheis. Last option would be Giovanni's Garden in Austria; I suppose I can try that,too.But I'd like to try Schultheis' Rose Millenium, too, and I've been wanting Karlsruhe for years...for this last rose, I could order from Beales...but oh boy is it ever a shame that some people don't realize the importance of communication. Now, Becky and John Hook ,instead, are absolutely GREAT,not only with quality plants, excellent communication/customer service,but also with scrupulous integrity as to correct id's of plants. Thanks to them, I have the true Setina and the true Clbg. Cecile Brunner,and I will most certainly be ordering from them in the future. It's a pleasure to deal with them,ditto Lens Roses...bart |
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| Such a happy resolution for you Nik! Great to hear that. Bart-- if you try to order in the fall and have any communication issues with them, just let me know. I would be happy to call ;-) |
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| Once again, many,many thanks, Ninkasi.I will take you up on your generous offer, if need be. In the mean time, I did visit the Schultheis site and hit the "translate" option on Google (duh, why didn't that occur to me on my own, you ask?? couldn't say, m'dear, couldn't say...) The Googlesque version-in both Italian and English-is pretty funky, but it is reassuring to be able to read the site in a language one understands. I've never done direct on-line ordering before, methinks,at least not for roses, having always preferred to address a real person,and the idea makes me a bit anxious, but there's a first time for everything, n'est ce pas? best wishes, bart |
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| There are some nurseries in the Netherlands, which have imported quite a bit from the U.S. Maybe they have what you want. Ask Kim Rupert, Bart. He has been in contact with some of them. |
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- Posted by nikthegreek 9b/10a E of Athens (My Page) on Fri, Jul 25, 14 at 0:27
| Bart Onine ordering is a piece of cake once you've done it for the first time. The reassurance that there's also a human who will respond promptly to an email if anything arises is required regardless of how one does one's ordering. My experience from repeatedly ordering online from both Beales and Austin in the UK has been 99% positive. One less than positive experience I had was with Austin when I needed to ammend an online order already paid for to add two more roses. There was no way offered to me to pay with a secure cc payment method for the additional charge. I had to either provide my cc details over the phone (unsafe) or sent the money via bank transfer (ridicoulously expensive in my case especially since there was a currency conversion involved). In the end I resorted to a friend living in the UK to pay the money for me and I gave it back to him when he came over for the Christmas holidays. Nik |
This post was edited by nikthegreek on Fri, Jul 25, 14 at 1:06
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