Hi Vicky ... good to hear from you in Chicagoland! I asked The Dark Lady about Windermere .. she likes it a lot, has 7 of them in her VA garden... great scent, blooms a lot.

Then I saw another person wrote on how fast Windermere shatters ... not good for the vase!

Thanks, Strawberry...yes, that's what I read, too, about Windermere. That's the way my Mary Rose, Winchester Cathedral, and Redoute tend to be...blooms are beautiful for about a day, and then they shatter in your hand. Lady of Megginch, on the other hand, looks good for about a week on the bush....no shattering of petals. At least that's the way it's been so far this summer...and the summer here has been cool, the coolest in about 45 years, the paper said.

Any other thoughts on these 2 roses?

I have both.

For every flower 'Lichfield Angel' produces, 'Windermere' produces 100.

They both have superior resistance to rust, probably not an issue for you. When I do get black spot, neither of them gets it, so they probably have some resistance--how much I can't say, but perhaps they are slightly better than some roses there.

'Windermere' has a beautiful fragrance, LA almost none.

LA has an arching growth habit, wider than tall, while 'Windermere' is taller than wide, and quite tall.

'Windermere' the flowers are quite ephemeral, but if you have a cool spring the flowers can last three days. Two in summer. LA's flowers last quite a long time for an Austin, 5-6-7 depending on temperatures.

'Windermere' blooms a lot, I think the disadvantage is that you must deadhead constantly because of the short life of the flower. Really delicious fragrance though--not quite as good as 'Jude The Obscure', but anything that comes near to 'Jude' in fragrance is very good indeed.

Thanks much, Hoov...that is just the kind of information I wanted. It sounds like you may prefer Windermere (?) A hundred times more blooms is quite a few more! Could you compare the color of the bloom and the size of the bloom....are they about the same size and similar in color? Pictures seem to show them both to be a pale apricot paling to white.

LA has fairly large blooms, between 3 & 4", closer to 4. Windermere's are about 2.75" wide. LA has mostly a ivory color--once in a while in cool weather a more pale apricot, but mostly ivory, like 'French Lace'. 'Windermere' is more consistently pale apricot fading to ivory.

I love the fragrance of 'Windermere' so prefer it for that reason. Smells so good. Deadheading is a daily chore, however. LA is more of an also-ran in the garden. Of course, YMMV in zone 5 vs. 9b.

Thanks! That is just the kind of information I wanted to get. I am leaning towards getting Windermere, and you have helped me make up my mind. I like the idea of more blooms, even if they are slightly smaller. This forum is a great resource--thanks so much!

Just to chime in about Windermere...

it does shatter, greatly. I can use it for cut flowers if I cut before they open, and try not to jostle it too much after that. But the smell is divine! I love the crisp citrus and warm fruity fragrance. I consider it a fairly strong smell, and very enchanting. Can't help you with LA...but for W, the overall bush shape (and density, which is a big plus for me) I'd give it an A+, along with uniqueness of smell (while I love that old rose smell, Windermere is a nice counterpart to the heavy old rose fragrance). Health is an A+, too. I never have trouble with, beyond a bit of rust/bs in extremely wet rainy weather.
Must add, though, that I deadhead it religiously, which it seems to love. The first flush is a sight to see, covering the whole of the bush and it reblooms well afterwards.
In my garden, Windermere is fairly consistent in color--a really warm, creamy white, with hints of apricot. I used to have it beside Iceberg, and it made Iceberg's white-white flowers look dull and grayish (and W even more lovely :)

Thank you! I am feeling better and better about my choice of Windermere! I don't have any problem with rust in my climate, and deadheading is fine, too, I'm used to it.

Sometimes when 2 roses look very similar on pictures, it is really helpful to hear from those who have actually grown them. Thanks much.

I want to thank all of you too. You've helped me decide that I would like Lichfield Angel for myself in zone 6b. Although she may not produce as many blooms as Windermere, her flowers last longer, she requires less deadheading, and she seems to have a more rounded shape, which pleases me. I am not as interested in having lots of roses as I am interested in having shapely shrubs with beautiful foliage that just happen to produce pretty roses. But that's just me. So thanks again for your comments above!

I want to thank all of you too. You've helped me decide that I would like Lichfield Angel for myself in zone 6b. Although she may not produce as many blooms as Windermere, her flowers last longer, she requires less deadheading, and she seems to have a more rounded shape, which pleases me. I am not as interested in having lots of roses as I am interested in having shapely shrubs with beautiful foliage that just happen to produce pretty roses. But that's just me. So thanks again for your comments above!

LA may actually be a lot better for you Mountie in your shorter growing season. Here some of the Austins realize it never gets cold and they get really big and lazy about blooming. Where you are that has a real winter--they are more motivated.

I was just out yesterday sniffing and sniffing 'Windermere'. The fragrance really is wonderful. A strong citrus but with a layer of spice and a layer of old rose underneath. Mmmmmm!

Tricia, mine got to about 5x4 and did not venture much beyond that. It had a nice rounded shape. I got rid of it this past spring, as it just never bloomed that much for me. I gave it 6 or 7 years.

Yours is so lovely in that photo. Mine would have a spring like that, but only one or two flowers at any one time for the rest of the year. The growing season is too long here for that.

Hoovb, thank you so much for your reply. 5 x 4 means I should dig it up this Winter and move it because I've just gone out (into the very thick fog) to measure mine - it's been in the ground just over 12 months and is 1 metre x 1 metre wide (a bit more than 3 feet in each direction). I have a feeling that it has a lot of growing left to do.

I'm sure that I'm Zone 9 equivalent (very seldom does it snow in Winter and the coldest minimum is around -5 C, Summer is usually very dry and hot with weeks of temperatures over 35 degrees). This year, however, Summer was wet, humid and very mild - a disaster for the roses - they've all succumbed to black spot to one degree or another, however, it doesn't seem to have affected their vigour or their ability to flower. Lichfield Angel was spectacular in Spring (May) - the photo above was in Summer (early July) - it is seldom without several flowers and, at the moment has lots of new growth and buds - I really don't know what to make of the seasons any more!

I feel so sorry for Ingrid when I read her posts - I know what it's like to try and garden with no water - I watched my mother garden in droughts for many years. It would be very perverse of me to complain that we've had so much rain in the past twelve months that we're about double the average annual rainfall (and Autumn is when we normally expect most of our rain).

Tricia

Double the average annual rainfall...sounds heavenly!

Three years later. . .just got Windermere and I do like the shrub shape, the fragrance, the rounded bloom, but it is related to Heritage and does shatter in one day albeit it does bloom quite a bit. Unfortunately, my garden space is at a premium so this one will not last for me at least. If I had a couple of acres I would keep it. . .but alas, I don't.