Then I saw another person wrote on how fast Windermere shatters ... not good for the vase!

Any other thoughts on these 2 roses?

For every flower 'Lichfield Angel' produces, 'Windermere' produces 100.

They both have superior resistance to rust, probably not an issue for you. When I do get black spot, neither of them gets it, so they probably have some resistance--how much I can't say, but perhaps they are slightly better than some roses there.

'Windermere' has a beautiful fragrance, LA almost none.

LA has an arching growth habit, wider than tall, while 'Windermere' is taller than wide, and quite tall.

'Windermere' the flowers are quite ephemeral, but if you have a cool spring the flowers can last three days. Two in summer. LA's flowers last quite a long time for an Austin, 5-6-7 depending on temperatures.

'Windermere' blooms a lot, I think the disadvantage is that you must deadhead constantly because of the short life of the flower. Really delicious fragrance though--not quite as good as 'Jude The Obscure', but anything that comes near to 'Jude' in fragrance is very good indeed.

I love the fragrance of 'Windermere' so prefer it for that reason. Smells so good. Deadheading is a daily chore, however. LA is more of an also-ran in the garden. Of course, YMMV in zone 5 vs. 9b.

it does shatter, greatly. I can use it for cut flowers if I cut before they open, and try not to jostle it too much after that. But the smell is divine! I love the crisp citrus and warm fruity fragrance. I consider it a fairly strong smell, and very enchanting. Can't help you with LA...but for W, the overall bush shape (and density, which is a big plus for me) I'd give it an A+, along with uniqueness of smell (while I love that old rose smell, Windermere is a nice counterpart to the heavy old rose fragrance). Health is an A+, too. I never have trouble with, beyond a bit of rust/bs in extremely wet rainy weather.
Must add, though, that I deadhead it religiously, which it seems to love. The first flush is a sight to see, covering the whole of the bush and it reblooms well afterwards.
In my garden, Windermere is fairly consistent in color--a really warm, creamy white, with hints of apricot. I used to have it beside Iceberg, and it made Iceberg's white-white flowers look dull and grayish (and W even more lovely :)

Sometimes when 2 roses look very similar on pictures, it is really helpful to hear from those who have actually grown them. Thanks much.

I was just out yesterday sniffing and sniffing 'Windermere'. The fragrance really is wonderful. A strong citrus but with a layer of spice and a layer of old rose underneath. Mmmmmm!

I bought mine just over twelve months ago from a local supplier of DA roses - FWIW, she said that all her stock is two year old grafted. We had no real Winter this year but in Spring, LA was a blooming machine, unfortunately though, Spring was warm and wet as was Summer. Poor LA has continued to bloom but is constantly affected by black spot - it's not the only one - this year all my roses have had black spot when previously they have been clean.

I'm wondering whether I should move LA because it's planted close to (within 1.5 metres) of Buff Beauty and BB has decided it's going to take over the world. My LA is already quite a large plant but its growth is becoming very lopsided because of BB planted above it.

I know that the Austin catalogue says LA is 4ft x 3ft but mine is already larger than that. I thought that, as you're in zone 9 I might get an idea from you as to what I should expect.

I'm attaching a photo of my LA and in the background you can see all the bamboo poles I've hammered into the ground to try and get BB to behave itself, however, I'm fighting a losing battle with BB so I believe that I'll have to move one of them and LA is the least difficult (or, at least, I think it won't be as hard as trying to move BB).

BTW, I tried unsuccessfully to buy Windermere from David Austin in the UK and from any number of DA resellers in Europe. It would seem that the US, Australia and New Zealand are the only countries where it can now be obtained.

Cheers
Tricia

Yours is so lovely in that photo. Mine would have a spring like that, but only one or two flowers at any one time for the rest of the year. The growing season is too long here for that.

I'm sure that I'm Zone 9 equivalent (very seldom does it snow in Winter and the coldest minimum is around -5 C, Summer is usually very dry and hot with weeks of temperatures over 35 degrees). This year, however, Summer was wet, humid and very mild - a disaster for the roses - they've all succumbed to black spot to one degree or another, however, it doesn't seem to have affected their vigour or their ability to flower. Lichfield Angel was spectacular in Spring (May) - the photo above was in Summer (early July) - it is seldom without several flowers and, at the moment has lots of new growth and buds - I really don't know what to make of the seasons any more!

I feel so sorry for Ingrid when I read her posts - I know what it's like to try and garden with no water - I watched my mother garden in droughts for many years. It would be very perverse of me to complain that we've had so much rain in the past twelve months that we're about double the average annual rainfall (and Autumn is when we normally expect most of our rain).

Tricia