I tried my hand at propagation, and so far failed. A few days ago I tested my plants that I had begun on June 14, and none of them had any roots at all. They had lost their leaves and were not looking good. All were Cramoisi Superieur.

*** The leaves often fall off. It's not a big deal.
If the cutting is green, it's not dead, and may be forming callus. (If it's black at the soil level, and spreading upward, it's toast.)
The most quickly we have ever seen good roots here is 4 weeks. So -- June 14? I wouldn't expect much until mid-July AT THE EARLIEST. Some roses take 6-8 weeks before we see roots.
Gardening teaches you patience.
Rooting cuttings DEMANDS patience.

I need to change - that is why I tested them. I have a counter in the kitchen that I am using, and it is on the opposite side of the north facing window. We have good artificial lighting in the kitchen, but not the sun.

*** Dappled sunlight.
We often put cuttings under an old camellia bush here.
Antique Rose Emporium suggests a table or ledge inside a south-facing window.

At some point should I move the plants to the window?

*** To start with?

Our outside temps have been over 100 until a couple of days ago, but in Oklahoma, it will be very hot until Labor Day.

*** Have you ever walked around in a misting house? PHEW! Talk about jungle conditions. HOT AND HUMID.

Does it hurt to move the plants a few times a day?

*** Probably not, but neither should it be necessary.

I get up early to work outside until it gets too hot, so I could put them on the sidewalk on the east side of the house until a certain time, then take them inside.

*** No! Not direct sun! Dappled or filtered light.

I also have large bottles to use, and more cups. Someone said that to put dirt in a bag and put them in it and close the top did not work for him/her.

*** The only thing I've ever grown that way is fuzzy gray mold. But it apparently works for some folks.

Sammy, have you examined the various methods on the ARS web site?
Visit the web site of Gold Coast Heritage Roses Groups.
Click on ARTICLES.
Click for the propagation pdf (a large file). You might find that helpful.

After experimenting with various containers, we are now using 16-oz transparent plastic cups (cheap at Sam's Club in volume). DH drills holes in the bottoms. The great thing is the fun of watching the roots appear and grow -- and little rooted plants slip out of those cups easily for potting up.

Jeri

Here is a link that might be useful: Gold Coast HRG

Sammy..don't give up..I think most of us have failed at our first few attempts. You have to play with your moisture levels,potting medium, rooting hormone, age of the cuttings..etc..until you get a batch that works for you.
I put mine right outside in the soil, under a bush that will block the afternoon sun..mine get morning sun. I have found that using gallon milk jugs with the bottom cut off, placed over the cuttings, works better (for me) in the heat because I think they diffuse more light and heat than soda bottles do. It could also be that there is a larger area inside of a gallon jug, and they like that, but for whatever reason, I use the gallon jugs now.
You have to get the hang of watering them..too much is certain death..they need to be slightly damp..I think most people over water in the beginning. I water my bushes well 2 days before I take cuttings so that the cuttings are well hydrated right from the start.
Also..use this years growth, semi woody..too soft and they'll rot, too hard and they'll never grow roots..
You just have to keep trying, and do keep notes. It will help you see what you did right, and wrong.
There is no magic formula..everybody uses a variation on the techniques that will work best for them..what I do may not work for you, so keep trying..also..I would start with Antiques if you have any, I think they are easier to root, at least here..for me! Donna

I have had lots of luck with propagating, (but I know nothing about how it's supposed to be done). -Here's how I do it, & it works great for me. I cut a branch that's low down on the bush. I strip ALL the leaves off of it, and wash it in warm soapy water. My main cane(that I stick in the powder) is about 1/4" to 3/8" in diameter, and about 6" long. it has 3-4 side branchs, & a few little ones off each side branch. I keep it moist, but not soaking wet. I have it outside against a wall, with NO sunlight hitting it, but lots of bright reflected light. It stays completely green, & I usually have roots in 3-4 weeks, which are followed by cute little leaves. I usually get one flower after it roots, but the next bloom season, I get nothing. On the 3rd season, should bloom like a normal rose.

One thing -- We have never had a lot of success with that powdered Rootone. After using it for years, we finally learned that it's pretty strong for roses.
If you're going to use it, use very little.

When we were at A.R.E. a couple of years back, they recommended ROOTECH Cloning Gel.
That, too, you use very little of -- but it seems to work much better for us than the powder. If you can't find it locally, you can buy it on line.
We also use willow water to soak new cuttings.
And we use "NATURE'S NOG," a kelp solution that promotes root growth.

Are all of those things necessary? Perhaps not.
But in our case, we've gone from being miserable failures to having quite a good success rate -- so, it sure works for us.

Jeri

I think I will always have failures. Am running a batch now under lights, started at least 3 weeks ago. Three weeks is usually not nearly long enough to root, usually takes 5 or 6 minimum. The cuttings I didn't have a whole lot to choose from of the roses I wanted, pretty small, knew the risk but figure well minis are tiny and root ok for George Mander, but I think when they say pencil thick, they mean just that.

So out of 5 going now, usually do more (leave xtra room for a cool whip container of water in addition to what I can get in the bottom, set the pots on quarry tiles), only one still has leaves which will probably drop (I fish them out, don't let them sit), have yellowish running thru them. It's happened before, losing all the leaves, and some still rooted. I may make my medium just a little too moist, will watch that in the future. Anyway, I decided to try those little square pots for a change figuring the roots wouldn't have as far to go through the holes like they do with my 16 oz plastic cups, maybe I should stick to the cups and just get the cutting in deeper?

I don't give up until my little leafless canes turn black and die. Only a few, larger ones BTW, have kept their leaves. If they start going black from the top, I sterilize scissors and clip it off, saved at least one that way.

I didn't know about Rootone. That's what I've been using, so maybe there is something to it. My quickest success was with a patented rose I didn't understand we weren't supposed to clone, so I don't any more. It didn't lose leaves and rooted in about 3 weeks, gave it to a neighbor, high-quality cutting.

Since I do mine in large plastic storage boxes, and the same may hold true with any method, the moisture collects nicely only a little over 1/2 way up. Some cuttings are taller than that, and I'm guessing they might not be getting the humidity they need where they need it the most.

The gallon milk jug sounds interesting. Inside I can watch them better and, more importantly, maintain more constant temperature than outside in the summer and fall. Haven't tugged yet but accidentally knocked one a little and met resistance.

But it's a funny thing. Roses have a mind of their own, and some, despite all odds, will just root almost no matter what.

Whatever you do, don't give up. I've had many failures, but don't need that many, just sometimes do more than I have room for in the garden areas for insurance.

Jeri's right, the leaves sometimes fall off, but the cutting roots anyway.

My best luck has been "sticking" a cutting directly into the garden soil in an area that gets shade from the afternoon sun. And I water it really often. Great draining soil is important.

I also think some roses just root easily. The easiest ones for me have been: Mrs Dudley Cross, Nur Mahal (yeah!), Thomas Affleck, Paul Neyron, & Pink Gruss an Aachen.

Randy

I was just at Roses Unlimited. It was 90+ outside, and we went into the greenhouses it was 100+! It actually felt cool when we went outside.

I'm going to try to propagate my Frankly Scarlett. I bought 3 and one died. And I don't want to buy anything from JP, so I figure what the heck.

Since I do mine in large plastic storage boxes, I'm guessing they might not be getting the humidity they need where they need it the most.

*** My biggest problem with the storage boxes (we call them "Terrariums") is that I have the devil's own time regulating the moisture.
Too wet? Too dry? It's always something. But others manage them better than I do.
Do you put loose soil in the bottom of the "terrarium" and stick the cuttings right in? We lost a lot of them, trying to dig them out with a big spoon.
Little pots (or cups) in the terrarium seem to work better for us.

Jeri

For years I tried to root according to various techniques--right size cuttings, time of year, soil, humidity, light, under jars, bags, etc, etc. Maybe one out of every 100 made it. Now I just stick them in the ground and water well. Much better results.

Do you put loose soil in the bottom of the "terrarium" and stick the cuttings right in?

Jeri, no, don't know how I'd manage that and get enough humidity. The cuttings are in 4" square pots right now, plastic cups should be just as good or better. I thought with the pots I could squeeze more in closer, well I can except then the tops touch while they have leaves which I'd rather not.

Six quarry tiles fit nicely in the bottom turned so the ridges (bottom) are up, set the pots/cups on those. Then put as much water in the bottom as I can without letting the pots sit in it. Also add a plastic container of water which does seem to help but sacrifices "floor space". I really have nice humidity going with this batch and the plastic is so heavy it practically molds over the top so I dispensed with the bungee cords that I was using to secure that, a nuisance.

George Mander uses a board that is a little thicker so he can get more water in the bottom plus a more sophisticated method for covering. I had to compromise.

Also I bleached everything and rinsed well B4 sticking but not the cuttings themselves. The medium I'm using I think has a fungicide, another close compromise with what George uses. I like it. Rootone pkt says it has fungicide as well, may help with damping off.

My cuttings are a little too tall, was hard to find any below 5 leaves plus these get less sun and stretch (Gruss an Aachen) plus one more white one (not big enough to propagate really but thought I'd try in case I lost the 2 I have).

If I had better cuttings, I can do at least 2 more storage boxes under the lights.

Haven't tried coir. Can't get the Canadian Sun Gro product George uses, so compromised with the mix I'm using now from Beautiful Land Products, 360 Cookson Drive, West Branch, IA. 1-800-227-2716. (319) 643-5550. Mix #2 (have about 6-8 different ones), had it bussed in, very nice to deal with. I also tried mixing some with potting soil to start seeds, and my delphiniums I got good germination compared to potting soil alone, maybe just got lucky.

I figure eventually I'll get it just right and a higher success rate, would rather not lose leaves and don't know why I am when they look healthy to start.

I may try outside again, that worked, too, for a few. It was hard enough to make my setup w/pvc pipe so I don't feel like messing with shelves and a misting setup outside. One poster has good luck with that.

WRT what Randy said, I want to propagate Thomas Affleck but think it is fairly new and probably under patent. Now I've seen others I like anyway.

Here is a link that might be useful: Beautiful Land Products

The problem is that you don't have a next door neighbor to tell you what works in your microclimate.
And what works for a friend who has sandy soil, in dappled shade, with a spring keeping the roots wet (yes, I have such a friend about eighty miles northeast of me), won't work for me because I don't have any of those factors.

One hint: chinas may root better over winter.

Another: were the cuttings well watered and growing really well when you took them?

Was your rooting medium too wet? too dry? too acidic?

How about ambient humidity?

Some other things to try:
bottom heat of 70F.
a rooting medium that's Hartz kitty litter (which is alkalin) + perlite
a rooting medium that's a fast draining sand

There are no guarantees. But starting with eighteen of one kind may not work for that one, but would work for others that you want.

(What's under patent? use google plant patent search to check. Get the registration name from helpmefind.) helpmefind lists tomas affleck as the registration name. I took that to the google search page (linked below) and specified plant patent, and asked for any patent that had the phrase thomas affleck in it....and there were none.

There don't seem to be any patents assigned to Shoup or Antique Rose Emporium

Here is a link that might be useful: Plant patent advanced search

Took the covering plastic off for the photos. Pretty amateurish and I check the connections now and then to make sure they're snug on the pvc pipe. I can take it down and easily reassemble elsewhere. Scuse the messy dining room table, always that way. Modified a design I found on the web for the stand.

In the first photo, the "whiteout" is the front fluorescent light.

Doesn't look real hopeful, does it?

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It is useful to know that rooting hormone comes in different strengths. 1 or 2% is usually good and do knock off the excess as it will actually inhibit rooting or cause a massive callusing that does not make roots. I think that is why people often have better luck with the liquid. The liquid is safer to use as the inert carrier in powdered is talc which is not good to breath(asbestos). Pick cuttings that have the nodes as close as possible-compact(more natural hormones). The latest stuff I have read is that longer cuttings are better-probably because they have more sugars stored-so 12"-14" vs 6"-8". If you cut slices at the base cut all the way through the green layer as the roots supposedly come from the underside of the green cambium layer. Diffused sunlight and high humidity..indoors would be too dry without some sort of cloche..you can use a 2 liter bottle with the cap removed and the bottom cut off and put it over the cuttings-works well outside too. I have a misting bed myself but still get failures.

patricia

My server (for my photos) seems to be down, hardly ever is. That info is good to know, patricia. Every little bit or clue helps. 12-14" cuttings would have to be covered by a much taller "cloche". I never liked the cuttings touching the sides of 2-liter bottles, but it didn't seem to matter that much. But they were more like 6 to 8 inches.

I have left alone, scraped and cut at the bottom. Right now just two shallow cuts on each side. Some might root without any hormone whatsoever. I always tap off the excess.

A misting system would give you a few more options except temperatures could fluctuate more depending on climate and where it's situated.

Greenhouses would be interesting; that's where probably most commercial cloning is done, and I don't know if they maintain constant temps or not.

I just finished a horticulture class/course on propagation. Many factors play into the science of propagation. It is a process of trial and error, timing and patience. Keep good notes on your process, figure out what works for you.
"The fact you can grow another plant from a cutting is amazing in itself"!

Some hybridizers don't patent.
If their plants are in commerce, and fairly new, I don't like to propagate them. Seems like cheating, to me (YMMV).
Because we're mainly propagating for fund-raising, we also try to avoid things our good vendors are selling.

Aliska, I like the idea of tiles or something of the sort in the bottom of the terrarium, with water. You say George Mander uses a board?
:-) I think we can find a board more easily than tiles.

FWIW, I think the reason the leaves fall away (if they do) is that the cutting has used up their stored energy. It doesn't otherwise seem to be significant.
I don't see a difference in success rate between cuttings that do lose their leaves, and those that don't.

For cloches outside, we actually have some heavy glass cloches. That's more fun-factor than anything else, tho they DO work well.
We've used emptied gallon white-vinegar bottles and even the bottoms of tall "tupperware" containers. But those all require more "babysitting" because they lose humidity through the soil.

Ann -- Interesting thought about Chinas. The greatest success we've had with Chinas seems to have been late-Fall/winter. Teas are all over the place, though.
We had one cutting Clay took last Dec 1, of "Magnolia Cemetery China." It sat there until a couple of weeks ago, green, but not growing. Clay got annoyed with it, transferred it to a 1-G, and stuck it out in the Pot Ghetto, and it promptly sprouted leaves. Go figure.

Bottom heat doesn't seem to have been helpful to us, though Mel swore by it. But San Jose gets hotter and colder than we do here, which may make a difference.

Jeri

When I was a kid, just starting playing around with rooting roses, I always used an extra-large peanut butter jar. They may have been the biggest glass jars the supermarket carried, and were definitely the biggest glass jars my family purchased. After they changed to plastic, too much moisture seemed to be lost through the sides of the jar.

Teas I strongly suspect really go like heat simply because I've had no luck with them at all, but most people claim they are easy.

Jeri,
the china thing isn't my original thought, I read it in a book from the 1800's, BUT I remembered it because it fit what I'd seen in trying to root some roses over winter.

I think the bottom heat might be because roses are like cats, neither likes things to change. And bottom heat would even out swings in the callus part of the rose.

I had a noisette cane canker in midwinter, so I cut it into about ten pieces. I got roses out of two of them...the two that were the thickness of pencils. All the thinner ones failed, even though I know that thin ones can make roots at other times of the year. The two pencil sized ones made roots that filled the sand in three weeks.
That taught me that the variability is awesome and I'll never have most of the answers.

Jeri, the tiles I picked up at Restore Habitat close by here, 25 cents apiece. You could stack ceramic tiles, too, use large peanut butter, ice tea, mayo jar (might not be tall enough) lids, anything to get the pots elevated and keep them out of the water underneath.

George Mander uses dishpans and a board cut to size allowing for loose fit in bottom, 3/4 inch thick and 1/2 inch of water. Can't find his Roses of Excellence website where all that is, but he has an article w/photos on hmf. Miniatures might be easier in some ways.

For the board, you can sterlize that but be sure it is some wood that won't warp, maybe turn it between batches or something. It would gain me a little more water but I didn't want one custom cut and can't easily cut one myself.

Try whichever is easier for you. You could even cut smaller individual squares out of 3/4 inch board.

I suppose I could switch to dishpans a la George, but when I saw the person on the prop forum with the storage boxes, that seemed like an easier way for me to go.

Here is a link that might be useful: Scroll down a little to see the board

jeri, I think you've hit it with the boxes and right balance of moisture. I remember what happened. When the leaves on a couple of the last batch, the slowest ones BTW, started growing back, I was all filled with hope only to see they were crisping up and lost them again. But I did a gentle tug by that point and knew I had something.

That's because the boxes were too dry at the top! If and when I see new leaves, maybe I'll flip the tiles and cover with closed bottles? Bottles are a good indicator of moisture, hate to risk misting at that point. The lid that came with that box has an elevated section and would prevent getting the lights low enough. The lid to my other storage box is opaque.

That was the other part of the problem! I didn't know what warm and cool bulbs were supposed to look like. One was too dim but I didn't know any better so let it go that way for a few weeks. When I set up the second set, I knew something was wrong and screwed the dim one again, and it lit up the way they are supposed to.

They were still green after losing those first leaves, so that's when I hit on the idea of the extra water dish and trimmed them down at some point, but you have to leave a node where they can sprout. Wonder they grew back, think it took 4 months to root! When I did harden them off in spring and planted them out, the first canes lost leaves again from something else. Glad I didn't give up. They are doing well so far outside after a bad winter, growing both up and at the base but still delicate.

Dumb me, sawed a mulberry with a girth of about 1-1/2 inches out of my lilac, what a job, ripped up my arm, no biggie, but the branch fell right over my babies! Didn't hurt them thankfully.

That pink rose is beautiful and 4 is a good success rate in my book!

So far I've never used a blind shoot.

I have to go out, and it's raining still. What crazy weather, but no flood warnings or anything. I don't remember so much rain like this, was bad last year, too, but quit by now. That's when the state was declared a disaster from all the flooding. Crazy.

The good thing about the few that took from that trip is that they were more or less the ONLY cuttings we took -- And they're growing well.

Isn't that a beauty? It's surely 'Duchesse de Brabant.' Not an uncommon find, but sort of heart-tugging on the grave of a teeny little girl-child.

Jeri

Jeri, I'm happy for you and know how that boosts your confidence, especially since it was all or none with each one this time. Plus you got one beautiful rose there and am sure you will enjoy the others. There's something special about one you've propagated yourself vs. ones you buy, and some can't be bought.

At some point, I'm open to trying something different but will stick to what has worked for me for now even though my successes are low. It's just easier than messing around with them outside at least for now and very low maintenance once I've got a batch going, just watch them, lights are on a timer.

Read with interest something about that white radiance rose, how nobody has photos or seems to know much about it. Hope they find that still exists and can be propagated. I'm really into saving the heirloom ones even if I'm not the one saving them and planting them in my yard and they won't grow in my zone.

I'm really into saving the heirloom ones even if I'm not the one saving them and planting them in my yard and they won't grow in my zone.

*** Well, that's "our thing."
Moreover, roses that have survived neglect and still done well are the roses I need.
You may not find the SAME roses we find, but there are roses all over. The roses that survived in your area ARE the right roses for that environment.
The truth is, when you start to look, you begin to realize that they're there. And if you preserve JUST ONE, you've done something.

Don't get me started! --GRIN--

Jeri

Hi folks. Lots of good information above. So much of this may be redundant. But for what it's worth, here is an article I wrote many years ago (1994), with some updating notes at the end. Malcolm

Starting Roses From Cuttings

If you plan to do any propagation of roses, it is important to be able to root cuttings. If you want own-root plants, they are most easily produced from cuttings. If you intend to bud or graft plants, youll still need to produce the rootstock plants from cuttings. Fortunately, most of the roses which thrive in Florida are also reasonably easy to root. This article will offer some suggestions for maximizing your success rate.
1. Age of the cuttings: While most rose varieties may root at nearly any age, generally the best cuttings are taken from firm but young stems. On a repeat-flowering variety, that would be stems on which the flowers are fading or from which the petals have just fallen. On a once-flowering plant, you could also use stems from which the flowers are fading, in the spring, or similar-age wood from subsequent growth flushes throughout the summer or fall.
2. Leaves: Roses, like most plants, root best if the cutting has some leaves still attached. The leaves provide sugars from photosynthesis, as well as root-promoting hormones. Some varieties will root without leaves, but it is always better to have some leaves on the cutting. In Holland, cuttings are commonly made with only one leaf; most Floridians use more  usually 2 to 5. Be careful not to let the cuttings wilt, since they are far less likely to survive and produce roots after wilting has occurred. We keep a spray bottle of water handy to mist over our cuttings while working on them, to keep them crisp.
3. Cuts and wounds: Some plants are picky about exactly where the cut is made, its angle, etc. However, most roses are not at all finicky  you can leave a bud and leaf scar (node) at the base, or you can leave just a smooth area of stem (internode)  roses have the ability to form roots at any point along the stem. For very difficult varieties, there may be some value in making the cuttings with a node at the base, since node areas tend to root somewhat more readily.
Many people wound the base of the cutting, either by making vertical slits in it with a knife, 1/2 to 1 inch long, just scoring the bark, or by tearing the bark off of one or two sides of the base of the cutting with the pruning shear blade. IÂve also heard of people pounding the bottom 1/2 inch or so of the cutting with a hammer, to shred it. There is reason to believe that wounded cuttings root better than those without wounds, although I donÂt recommend the hammer method.
4. Rooting hormones: Most rose varieties can be rooted without the use of hormone preparations. This is because rose cuttings contain auxin (indoleacetic acid; "IAA"), a natural root-promoting hormone. It is produced by the leaves and growing buds or shoot tips and accumulates at the bottom of a cutting, exactly where you want roots to form. Some roses apparently donÂt produce adequate supplies of auxin, so are difficult to root, or if they root at all, they produce few, weak, roots. So, many growers apply a commercial hormone preparation, such as Rootone-F, Hormodin I or II, Hormonex, Dip-n-Gro, Rhizopon, etc. These products all contain a synthetic auxin, usually indolebutyric acid (IBA) and/or naphthaleneacetic acid (NAA). While natural auxin (IAA) is commercially available, it is almost never used for rooting cuttings, since it is astoundingly expensive and doesnÂt work as well as the other two materials. Applied auxin materials generally do not speed up the rooting process, but they do result in a higher percentage of the cuttings forming roots at all, and a greater number of roots on each cutting,. At FSC, weÂve used a number of products, all with reasonably good success. Recently, weÂve used Hormodin II almost exclusively. ItÂs readily available, relatively inexpensive, and very effective.
5. Willow water: Another material which has somewhat of a cult-like following, is willow water. Cuttings made from willow trees (Salix spp.) are exceptionally easy to root, and it has been found that if pieces of willow twigs are steeped in water for a period of time (there are many recipes  perhaps we can publish some later), then cuttings of some other plant (e.g., a rose) are soaked in the brew, the cuttings become easier to root. Dramatic results have been shown with birch trees, rhododendron, camellia, and mung beans. The theory is that auxin alone is insufficient to cause rooting; there must be an additional substance, tentatively called "rhizocaline," which acts with auxin to stimulate root formation. Plants with an abundance of both substances are easy to root with no external hormone applications. Plants which root easily with a commercial auxin preparation must have adequate natural rhizocaline, but they lack adequate auxin. Still other plants, which are difficult to root even with an auxin preparation, must lack natural rhizocaline. It is these plants which would benefit most from a willow water treatment. ItÂs a nice theory, which seems quite reasonable, and there appears to be good evidence in its favor. But the substance rhizocaline has never been isolated and identified. Also, there are apparently no published data indicating that it is beneficial on roses. To date, IÂve never seen the results of a well-designed scientific experiment, testing the effects of willow water on roses. We tried to do such an experiment at FSC, a couple years ago, but all of the cuttings rotted (note, thatÂs rotted, not rooted). So, we didnÂt prove anything. WeÂll have to try it again. There are many rosarians who use it regularly, and are quite convinced that it is highly beneficial.
6. Moisture: One of the most important factors in successfully rooting cuttings is maintaining adequate moisture, both in the soil and in the form of humidity in the air. Commercial growers usually use an intermittent mist system, which sprays a fine mist of water over the cuttings for a few seconds, every few minutes, preventing wilting. Most such systems are set up with two clocks, one 24-hour clock which switches the system on at sunrise and off at sunset, since cuttings donÂt need to be misted at night. A 10-minute clock (or some similar short period of time) turns on the water valve for the short bursts of mist at several-minute intervals, throughout the daylight hours.
If you donÂt want to go to the effort and expense of installing a mist system in your garden, Charles Walker demonstrated an effective, inexpensive substitute, at the Heritage Rose Foundation conference here, in the spring of 1992. You stick your cuttings in pots (1, 2, or 3-gallon sizes are convenient), then cover the pot with a plastic bag. You can use sticks or stakes in the sides of the pot to hold the bag up off of the cuttings, and you can tie or rubber-band the bag to the sides of the pot (see illustration).
7. Light: If you have an open mist bed, which doesnÂt build up heat, we find that the brighter the light is, the better rooting we get. FSCÂs mist bed gets full sun from about 10:00 a.m. until nearly sunset. If you use the bag-over-the-pot method, youÂll have to provide some shade to prevent the cuttings from getting too hot.
8. Season: Most cuttings seem to root best for us in the spring, after the weather is warm but before it becomes miserably hot. May and June are good months. But we do root cuttings all year. They take longer, and a smaller percentage of them root in cold or very hot weather, but we can get reasonably good rooting nearly any time.

IÂve been told by Mike Shoup, of the Antique Rose Emporium, that Gallica roses are most successfully rooted in October, so if you are rooting something that doesnÂt work well at one time of the year, it may be worth trying again at a different season.
9. Timing: In May or early June, some varieties will have good roots in as little as 2 weeks. Nearly any variety can be rooted in 3-4 weeks, that time of year. At other times, the process takes longer, up to 7 or 8 weeks in December - February. There are several ways to tell whether a cutting is rooted. You can tug lightly on it, and if it resists being pulled out of the pot, it is likely rooted. Also, you can look for roots growing out the drainage holes in the bottom of the pot. Cuttings which are putting out a flush of new leaves almost always have roots, whereas unrooted cuttings tend just to sit there, not showing signs of new top growth.
Once your cuttings are rooted and youÂve removed them from the mist or the bag, harden them off for a few days by putting the pots in a cool, shady area. Moving them immediately into hot sunshine may damage or even kill the plants. Once they have a good large root system and are putting out new growth, you can move them into brighter light.
If your goal is the production of rootstocks for budding or grafting, you should wait several (4-6) weeks after rooting the cuttings before you do the grafting or budding operation. Working on them any earlier is likely to break off a lot of tender roots as you jostle the top of the plant around. Give the roots time to toughen up first. Of course, you can "cleft bench graft" your plants, making the graft before rooting the cutting, then allowing the plant to root and heal the graft union at the same time.
Malcolm Manners

2009 update notes:

1. Hormones. We still use Hormodin II or Rhizopon II quite a lot (0.4% IBA in talc), and still like it. But for difficult-to-root roses, we sometimes use a #3 powder (0.8% IBA) with greater success. We've also come to like Dip-N-Grow liquid (1% IBA + 0.5% NAA in alcohol), which you dilute -- 1 part DnG to 9 parts water for very easy stuff (e.g., Chinas), 7 part water for "average" things, and as strong as 4 parts water for very difficult stuff. If using a liquid, let the base of the cutting soak in it for several seconds (we do 10 seconds) before sticking into the soil.

2. Willow Water. After writing the above article, we did quite an elaborate study, using 'Fortuniana' as the test subject, and on another occasion, R. moschata cuttings. What we found was that willow water alone never improved the percentage of cuttings which rooted, over the control. IBA-based hormones DID dramatically improve the percentage of cuttings which rooted. However, IBA-based hormone PLUS willow water resulted in cuttings with far more roots, longer roots, and better-branched roots, than did the IBA alone. So in that sense, we found benefit in using willow water, but not by itself.

3. One more note on a mist bed -- roses like the brightest light you can possibly give them, without cooking them, to root. So the problem with the bottle, baggie, or other method using an enclosed chamber, is temperature control while getting adequate light. The nice thing about a mist box is that you can leave the top open (no roof), so they get full noon-time sun, yet they stay cool. That's what our mist bed does, and we claim to be able to put roots on an old broom handle (well, almost)! I really believe in bright light, without too much heat.

Malcolm

Excellent information - What medium do you use for your rooted roses?

Malcolm, good article, lots to digest there. Poor sammy (OP) has kind of been left behind in a cloud of um rooting hormone and minutiae, but this has been a nice, spontaneous thread where not much goes on any more over on the prop forum. Hopefully sammy will have gotten some ideas and encouragement as well. Just take it at your own pace and skip over info that may be too involved for where you're at.

Have you even tried growing from pieces of root? I tried that, too, and failed, probably didn't have enough root or knowhow. Suckers aren't so easy either unless you sever the runner that produces them and let them grow on their own in situ for awhile before digging. I've never read a method for root propagation as an alternative which could be useful, did read somewhere that's how someone in Scotland or England dug out pieces in cemeteries, countryside, homesteads and got them to grow rather than taking cuttings. Aged roots are pretty tough and one would think they might be more advantageous to cuttings sometimes.

Jeri, I thought you were involved in saving roses. Nobody around me gives a flip. Oh well, I might not have years ago but just maybe I would have because even in my frantic years, I never forgot my childhood delight in flowers and seeds.

Before I took up trying to grow roses again and more seriously but by no means expertly, by chance I picked up a new release at the library, "In Search of Old Roses" (google says 1989). Never forgot it and intrigued me, no mention of rustling per se, but that's what part of it involved.

I'd be interested in reading about some of your experiences, maybe not a whole book for awhile but surely you're qualified to write one.

Even failures can be profitable because of the learning experience if you don't give up. It makes your successes that much more gratifying and appreciated even if you lose something you may not get another chance at soon or ever.

I had good success this year by planting the cuttings up to the very tip in poor soil (no organic material) on the north side of a block wall. Soil was always damp but never moist. Full (but bright) shade. I removed all foliage. Since they were under ground right up to the tip, the soil kept them from drying out. Got 4 out of 5 going--the circled one died--it wasn't as deep in the ground as the others. All of that foliage is new growth. It took 6 months.

{{gwi:294187}}

I've done the soda-bottle method in the past. This was so much easier. If they had all failed it would have been ok, it was just an experiment that happened to work.

I think the key to success is: if you desperately want them to root, they won't. If you don't care, then they will root.

I am still here.

I am so appreciative of all this information. I want to take careful notes before I try to ask any questions.

Thank you for your responses, and feel free to ask questions of each other if you wish.

I fully intend to respond to each and every one of you.

Thanks,

Sammy

Daun -- we have used many media over the years, but all with the same characteristics -- ability to hold some water while remaining quite well-drained. The current stuff is predominantly Canadian peat and perlite (maybe 50:50) mixture, pH adjusted with dolomite. We used to use a similar material, but with quite a lot of pine bark in it. Both worked fine.

Aliska: Root cuttings. They only work with some varieties that have the inherent ability to make adventitious shoots from root tissue (i.e., new shoots from a spot where no bud existed before). In roses, some can and some cannot. We don't usually do it on purpose, but accidentally -- if one ever tries to dig up a R. odorata (Fun Jwan Lo, Indica Major), every little piece of root that remains will make a new plant! 'Dr. Huey' can make such shoots, but far less commonly. And I've never seen 'Fortuniana' do it. It's a great way to get new crape myrtles to give to friends, though. Just plunge the shovel around the mother bush a few times, and wait.

Sammy, we saw the rooting chamber that Malcolm has this spring and I do believe he could root a "broom handle"!.

We've had really good success in the past here with a cheapie misting system to start. Lowe's had the misting heads, line and an inexpensive timer that takes most of the work out of rooting. Keeping the moisture constant seems to be key. I know Greg (Beerhog) has great success with the same. We do use Rhizopan #2 and take the cuttings in the spring.

Jeri, I thought you were involved in saving roses. Nobody around me gives a flip.

*** Aliska, yes, that's what we do. And not to say that you can't have a ton of fun doing it, because we DO.

If you liked "IN SEARCH OF LOST ROSES" -- I recommend to you "OLD ROSES" by Ethelyn Emory Keays. (1935) There are reprints, very reasonably priced.
She predates Thos. Christopher by 50 years, but despite the date, this is a book you'll enjoy reading. Mrs. Keays is my idol.

Email me privately, and we'll talk. :-)

Jeri

I haven't forgotten you Jeri and will catch up with you when I am able. All the used copies of "Old Roses" from my favorite used book data base are pretty expensive, couple reprints around $19 which isn't bad really but I''m going to wait because I ran up my charge on all sorts of supplies and just a few plants, I try really hard to keep it so I can pay it off every month. None in my local library, but they changed their db. Used to be able to search all the libraries in the area, not now. Why did they "fix it" if it wasn't broken?

After I last posted, one suddenly bit the dust, covered with mold. Got it out of there and gently tugged. Toast.

But the other four have rooted. Three are showing through the holes but no new leaves. I'm watching them like a hawk, some mold in the medium of one so sprayed with H2O2 diluted properly I hope. Also trimmed a couple back but not below a node.

Well, even if I end up losing them, this is working better percentage-wise so far than ever before.

It's going to be nip and tuck to wait and see if they get leaves; otherwise I don't dare pot them up. The white one still has 3 of its original ones; two look fairly healthy. And it was such a tiny cutting.

Low in the box must be better.

hoovb,
How long were the cuttings that you stuck in the ground?
Pearl

hoovb, also did you use rooting hormone? I read about a winter method, just stuck some in the ground, fatter ones like yours but found one set lying prone and the others didn't take. Didn't use any hormone and didn't stick them down very deep.

I did notice that some pruned canes I threw on the trash pile in the fall (spring prune but had to cut a few back anyway) stayed green for a very, very long time. The ones that didn't take were still green in the spring IIRC.