May I make non-rose suggestions? Being as you're mentioning once-blooming roses as possibilities anyway, I am thinking that you wouldn't require a climber to be blooming all season. Considering you want something which gains height but doesn't get massive, I'm picturing two of a Clematis montana cultivar for this spot. You can find montanas in a range from whites to pinks, and most are fragrant (vanilla or chocolate smell).

To help them get started with climbing the cedars, simply use carpenter staples lightly tapped into the trunks to hold the stems in place until they reach the lower branches, and then let them go on their own. In a couple years, you can remove the staples from the trunk.

I did this with C. montana 'Elizabeth' on an old pear tree, and also fanned it out along the wooden stockade fence behind it. This was back in my old garden on Long Island, which I left four years ago. One of these days I'll have to make a trip out there to see what's become of that yard.

If you want additional flowers later in the season, consider what I did after 'Elizabeth' reached into the tree after two years -- I planted a 'Jackmanii' next to 'Elizabeth', which bloomed over the summer ('Elizabeth' bloomed during the main rose flush in late Spring). It used 'Elizabeth' as its trellis into the tree. Being as 'Jackmanii' is a Type 3 Clematis, it was pruned hard every spring to keep it blooming at the base. 'Elizabeth' (a Type 1) was left unpruned.

If you don't want purple but want to continue with fragrance, consider Clematis flammula (white) or the flammula X viticella hybrid 'Rubromarginata' (dark pink-edged white). Both have tiny flowers but in tremendous abundance. And both are Type 3, so should be trimmed back hard in the spring to keep from getting bare at the base. But if you're letting them grow into the trees, you can trim them back to just where the cedars' branches begin.

To search these clematis, use the link below.

:-)

~Christopher

Here is a link that might be useful: Clematis search at HelpMeFind

Evergreen trees usually shade roses too much for them to bloom well, and their large root system would cause root competition for space and nutrients with a rosebush.

The only type of rose I would try growing on an evergreen tree is a tough rose species or species hybrid.

Since 'Albertine' is a species hybrid, and I have had personal experience with it being very tough and very forgiving, that is the first rose I'd suggest.
I had an Albertine in a large pot and when I was moving the movers stacked several more (empty) pots on top of it, from the other side it just looked like a big stack of pots because the canes were on the other side. The Albertine ( in the bottom of a stack of pots) was taken to my new place where it was shoved in back of a shed and its canes were in dark deep shade, and it remained, hidden for more than 3 months during our hot summer months of drought in California during which time it was never watered at all. When I did discover it , it had new leaf buds on the canes and the plant bloomed normally during its' next flush. That is treatment which would kill any Hybrid Tea.
I'd
- do a ph test before amending the soil, and a week afterwards too.
-plant Albertine' 8 feet or more, away from the trunk.
-on the south facing exposure, if possible to allow for more sunshine.
-amend the soil very well with well rotted plant compost and manure, -add some bone meal and alfalfa, and remember to water very well because the tree roots will take much of the water.

Good luck and if you try this please let us know if it is sucessful.
I have seen a Grandmothers Hat climbing up a pine tree, where it bloomed sparsely but beautifully. Because Albertine is such a large plant, it can reach more sun, and if the roots and plant are happy, it should bloom more than G.Hat did.
Luxrosa

I think Lux just gave you the perfect answer. Albertine is tough, persistent, insistent, a survivor; it will tolerate the cold, hot and dry and still demand to do its thing when the weather is right. I wouldn't change a word of her response. Kim

Christopher, the clematis is a wonderful suggestion. I have planted several clematis throughout my garden but haven't really taken the time to learn much about them. I only know to plant them somewhere where their roots will be shaded. I can never remember what type each cultivar is or when it is supposed to be pruned. I was not very familiar with clematis montana but some preliminary research (ie looking at pictures) convinced me that this plant would work well in my garden. And indeed would look great on these trees. As I work out there today I will think about your suggestion. I want to try and imagine Elizabeth combined with Albertine. I wonder if it's trying to do much? Do you have any other suggestions for later-blooming clematis? I love jackmanii but it's a little too dark for what I want here (soft pastels, not a lot of high contrast). Your posts are always so informative and full of good advice, thank you.

Luxrosa and Kim, I am so glad to hear that Albertine is actually a good choice. I had a moment of clarity when Luxrosa wrote to try and plant in southern exposure. I realized then that I was looking at the trees from the wrong direction. If, instead of looking at them from the house, I walk outside and look at them from the lawn, the whole area opens up and I can more easily see how to go about planting the roses and giving them a good start. What do you think about Christopher's suggestion with the C. montana 'Elizabeth'? Is it trying to do too much if I try to plant both on each tree? Lux, that was an incredible story about Albertine!

I will be glad to share my results. I appreciate the generous and thoughtful comments :)

This post was edited by Sidos-House on Wed, Jul 10, 13 at 8:11

I suggested the Clematis for the spot because I wasn't sure a climbing rose would work there. I am imagining that a rose vigorous enough to grow into the cedars would also want to get wide and massive, and keeping it attached to the cedar may get annoying. Clematis montana cultivars do get big, but their stems are thin and light, and will climb on their own into the cedars once they reach the lower branches. If you want later color that isn't dark, consider Clematis virginiana or Clematis flammula (both are fragrant white Autumn-blooming clematis) or the pink-edged white 'Rubromarginata' hybrid (also very fragrant).

Brushwood Nursery is a great place to order clematis (and other climbers). Copy and paste the links below to see:

Clematis montana cultivars
http://www.gardenvines.com/shop/search/results.html?search_in_description=1&ignore_special_flag=1&keyword=montana&inc_subcat=0&page=1&sort=3a

Clematis flammula
http://www.gardenvines.com/shop/small-flowered-clematis-4/clematis-flammula-89.html

Clematis 'Rubromarginata'
http://www.gardenvines.com/shop/small-flowered-clematis-4/clematis-triternata-rubromarginata-218.html

Clematis virginiana
http://www.gardenvines.com/shop/small-flowered-clematis-4/clematis-virginiana-227.html

And then, of course, google their names to see more pics and info.

To break down the clematis "groups" simply, Type 1 are large plants with small flowers, and bloom in late Spring, a little earlier than most of the once-blooming roses. They bloom on old wood, so if you need to prune, you do it right after they flower, giving them time to grow more wood to be hardened over winter and bloom the following Spring. These include the montanas and Clematis armandii (both are fragrant), as well as some others.

Type 2 are medium-sized climbers, usually with large flowers. They bloom on old and new wood, and usually twice -- once in late Spring to early Summer (usually just after the Type 1) on old wood, then they pause during the peak of Summer, and bloom again in August/September on new wood. Most don't need much pruning at all besides tidying up in the Spring.

Type 3 includes the non-climbing herbaceous clematis, large-flowered Summer-blooming clematis like 'Jackmanii', the small-flowered Summer-blooming species and close hybrids, and the small-flowered Autumn-blooming species and close hybrids (the latter are often fragrant). Those that bloom in Summer usually start just as the Type 2 finish their fist bloom, while the Autumn-blooming ones usually bloom when the Type 2 are finishing their second bloom. Type 3 blooms only on new wood, and so are typically pruned harshly to keep them from getting bare at the base. The general rule of thumb is to find the lowest set of healthy leaf buds, and prune to just above them in the Spring. This might be only 12" from the ground. Of course, you could leave them unpruned higher up if they're trained into trees. In that case, I'd just snip them right above where they first reach into the branches, and only worry about pulling out last year's growth if it looks obvious and messy.
:-)

~Christopher

Hi, Christopher. I've been thinking over your clematis suggestion. I knew right away when I read your post that it was very good advice and that perhaps the reason I was having such a difficult time making a decision was that a rose wasn't the answer to this question. Could that be true?? Initially I was inspired by this photo of Ballerina Climbing:

https://plus.google.com/photos/112914890409620217127/albums/5477536303934976625/5781695317865261698?banner=pwa&pid=5781695317865261698&oid=112914890409620217127

And wondered how I might achieve a similar effect in this area, but on both sides. I realized yesterday as I mulled things over in the garden that I have seen clematis that have this sort of look, including as you said the Montana cultivars. And that, again as you said, they would be less work and more manageable.

On the other hand when I considered the location from the other side, it didn't seem so cramped. But still, spacious enough for Albertine? It could look really romantic. But I have plenty of other places where I could put her and not worry about her overwhelming everything.

I am not usually so indecisive. Let me show you a shot from the other direction and I'd love to hear just frankly what you would do. Then I'll quit vacillating and do something.

And. Your information about clematis was extremely helpful for me. Brushwood Nursery looks great, I haven't purchased from them before. I read on their site that they don't offer the Sweet Autumn Flowering clematis anymore because of its invasive nature; I can attest to that :)

Hello AquaEyes;

If you care to take a trip to Philly, the Morris Arboretum Rose and Flower Garden has many examples of roses growing into trees, including conifers. It's very possible to do it.

The garden is not set up as a traditional exhibition rose garden , but as a diversified mixed garden, so you see a lot of companion planting that you wouldn't see at a more typical rose display garden.

Oh, I know about roses in trees, and plan on a few here. But the space pictured here seems narrow, and I was thinking of clematis because they can be trained to grow straight up the trunks without spreading wide and obscuring the path between. I think of roses doing better in trees that branch lower down. But that's just my own personal preference.

:-)

~Christopher

Sidos-House, looking at the peaceful and lovely scene in the last picture, with the trees framing the house from that spot, my inclination would be to leave the trees alone and to take up some more grass and plant more roses on the ground. Flowers and varied companion plants can look busy, and a tree that's left to be just a tree can be a restful counterpoint to all the color going on at ground level.

This is just a very personal opinion, given by someone who has never seen your property first-hand, so please take this with a large grain of salt. Advice given can be acted upon or ignored at will!

Ingrid