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A Tea Garden

Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on
Mon, Jul 7, 14 at 19:10

I have been trying to figure what to do with the lowest part of the yard. It has a few plants/trees that are staying and is set to be the low spot should we get rain. I have the center of this fairly hot and sunny 40x50 aprox area to do something with, I can make the center bigger and change the shape some. This year it is pumpkins, goards and watermelons. But I am thinking it would make a nice "Tea Garden" Madame Lombard is already down there along with the fence line of big roses

There is some shade if needed. A couple of climbers up posts/rebar arches might be nice. And there are places for taller and shorter. I would like to define a couple of entry points. It is visible from the street gates, I am not trying to completely block the view but would like to direct the view It would be a nice place to sit and visit with the neighbors as well. The house has a nice view down there too

Judging from the out of stock listings, I have some time to work on the layout, elevations and hard scape .

Any suggestions as better Teas or ones to skip?

Since the two teas in my propagation box both look pretty sorry, when and how have any of you had success in starting them? Shameless request for cuttings if you think they will start. I figure I will keep in large pots for a bit while I decide if the layout works and decide about the three marginal fruit trees in the general area. A sickly orange mom wanted out, the pear with the fireblight issues and the odd shaped peach we already replaced and decided we like others better

Thanks!!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: A Tea Garden

So far, Rosette Delizy is the best Tea I've seen in this area. I hear great things about the Cochets, Gilbert Nabonnand, Le Pactole, Monsieur Tillier, Etoile de Lyon, General Schablikine, Lady Hillingdon, Mme. Berkeley, Mme. Antoine Mari, and William R. Smith for the most part.

Safrano, Comtesse Emmeline de Guigne, Susan Louise (What I suspect is this rose gets huge here at a nearby home), Souvenir de Pierre Notting, Marie Van Houtte, Puerto Rico, Mlle. de Sombreuil, Devoniensis, Miss Atwood, Lady Roberts, General Gallieni, and DdB (at least from Jeri's experiences with it here) seem to be a bit more mixed in their reviews, but generally liked.

I have a few and have planted around 8 teas for my mom in the past two years. Adam went and croaked a few weeks ago. I really wanted that one to succeed, but I'm now trying Souvenir d'Elise Vardon from RU. Rosette Delizy is definitely the best so far. Rubens has been hesitant to bloom, but healthy. General Schablikine recently arrived, but General Gallieni has been very healthy even though it arrived instead of Gilbert Nabonnand which also came recently during the RU summer sale. The others are Madame Berkeley, Lady Hillingdon, Madame Lombard, and a Puerto Rico that's coming in the fall.

I'll let you know how these cultivars fare, but I'm sure Jeri and others have a better sense of which varieties do best in the long run in Coastal So Cal. I would guess that there are some that people just don't report about in these conditions that are worth growing, but it would take some experimenting to find out. I have no idea how Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux would do here, but it seems worth a shot to try it. Same for Baronne Henriette Snoy and many others.

Jay


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RE: A Tea Garden

For me, Mrs BR Cant is the best. My Rosette d Lizzy grows straight up, for me it doesn't have a classic tea shape. Plus it's prone to sudden cane death.

Marie D'Orleans is similar to Madame Lambard, the flowers are a darker pink. She can get huge and has big thorns.


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RE: A Tea Garden

I love Marie D'Orleans, Dr. Grill, General Schlablikine, Clementina Carbonieri, Angel's Camp Tea, Monsieur Tillier (is he a China)? G. Nabonnand, Francis Dubreuil (whatever he is).
But I have no idea how similar our climates are.
Etoile de Lyon is growing verrrrrry slowly. Couldn't get Perle d' Jardins to grow.
Mrs. BR Cant is a gorgeous rose that gets huge. I wish I had the space to grow it.
Mutabalis is a china (so is Comtesse du Cayla, I think), but they would go great with these colors and contrast nicely with the "lushness" of the big tea blooms.
How much fun you get to have!
Susan


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RE: A Tea Garden

I have had Rosette Delizy in my shopping cart so many times and some how, I still do not have her! My fault of course changing my mind or having eyes bigger than my wallet. I will keep watching for when she comes back in stock.

I have G. Nabonnand planted recently, once it is big enough, i will try a cutting but it is a baby now so that will be awhile.

I also have Archduke Joseph who is also taking off like gang busters. Another one that could donate cuttings in a while

I am thinking of moving Lady Hillingdon, new thread for that question. I really want a climbing version, but it seems that is harder to find. Someone had mentioned that the climber is more vigorous.

I have Safrano "near" by Mutabalis, they looked further apart before Mutabalis. I think Mutabalis likes our gardens, it looked like a pretty miserable plant for the first month but now it is busy on the Safrano side and I love the color of the new growth.

Not doing well in my propagation box is a cutting of Belle Portugaise, no gasping how lucky I am that it is not looking good. Linda said it is probably from an early import from a local botanist so it would be kind of neat to have a rose of his and besides, I have far too many persimmon trees so it can have one or two.

Any thoughts on these not being good picks? I can not pick all but any thoughts on some being too similar or fussy? Any sizes different than listed?

Baronne Henriette Snoy (mildew?)
Catherine Mermet
Dr Grill
Duchesse de Brabant (mildew?)
Francis Dubreuil (Barcelona right, not an actual Tea?)
Le Pactole
Madame Lombard
Monsieur Tillier (big boy right)
Papa Gontier
Rubens

This will be a fun project, the bottom part of the property has always been ignored and had very little regular use.


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RE: A Tea Garden

Kippy,

Regarding DdB, how bad is mildew where you live and does it carry on all year long or is it a seasonal thing? In my area we do get quite a lot of it but only in spring and fall. This year has been a perticularly bad year for PM since our humid spring lasted for ever (Late Feb to early June). Yes DdB gets mildewy. My young grafted rose still in a pot did get a severe case of it in spring but this never stopped her blooming. It seems to have shaken it off now with the dry summer onset. If you are the sort of gardener who cannot tolerate any leaf disease then you might want to stay away from it. However you will be missing out on a very impressive Tea rose, a blooming machine which seems to be blooming more the warmer it gets! I would give it a try if I were you. Keep in mind that you will need to provide her with lots of water to help her resist PM and look her best. Definitely not a drought tolerant rose as far as I can tell although this may change once it is established which I understand can take a few years.
Nik


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RE: A Tea Garden

Nik

We are north of Jeri and Jay but on the southern California coast where fog is called May gray and June gloom and often does not really break til August plus we are in a drought since my list is bigger than space I don't want to put really fussy or sick plants in. But if they are more like Iceberg who also mildews but does not care then it is a different story. Especially if they bloom consistantly and have a nice scent


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RE: A Tea Garden

DdB is definitely a bloom machine. You may or may not be able to detect a fragrance. Certainly not a strong smelling rose but the transparency of this shell-pink colour and the airyness of the blooms is something one can readily appreciate.
Nik


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RE: A Tea Garden

I've just added Mme. Antoine Mari because of its supposed "drought and disease resistance"; Mrs. Dudley Cross because of her relative lack of prickles and Louis Philippe because of its supposed disease resistance and how incredible it has appeared when I've seen it in old cemeteries. Of course I added them with an eye toward their use in breeding for those stated traits. I can highly recommend Ping Dong Yue Ji for scent, ease of propagation, heavy flowering, beauty and ease of growth. It is also fertile and has crossed with some interesting things. If you can provide shade from the hottest sun so the flowers can last longer, Purpurea has some of the most wonderfully beautiful foliage imaginable. It is bullet proof here in Encino with absolutely no mildew nor spotting of any kind, very low prickle count and it roots easily. The flowers fry in the hot sun, but Comtesse du Cayla grows and flowers without issue here. It also propagates fairly easily. Kim


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RE: A Tea Garden

Thank you Kim!

Mme Antoine Mari is on my Burling list and Comtesse du Cayla is on the list too.

Ping Dong Yue Ji is very nice too

When do you have the best luck with Mrs Dudley Cross? She is the other failing cutting in my box. One looks like a no-go but will wait and see cause I have given up too soon in the past and pulled up what I thought was dead just to ruin a nice root. The other pot is borderline but hoping

Plenty of shade down there Purpurea would like it there

Your Lamarque is down there on the upper side of the gate looking very happy and busy hiding buds as fast as it can. Not growing tall but spreading out.

Sorry for any misspellings trying to catch all the auto correct changes but hard with rose names!


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RE: A Tea Garden

I've not tried rooting Mrs. Cross until now, Kippy. Fortunately the cuttings came with a very well rooted, two gallon plant so should these not take, there will be more to play with. Until hitting upon burying pots of cuttings up under the Apostle Plant foliage in the over crowded front planter, I'd never had any success rooting roses this time of year nor in these conditions here in Encino. But, it appears the high humidity from the over crowded, jam packed area is making the difference. If you try Purpurea, give it LOTS of room. Jimofshermanoaks' plant was easily seven by four feet! It grew in the shade of a citrus tree and seemed determine to overtake it. Ping Dong I wrapped and it took quite easily. Kim


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RE: A Tea Garden

Baronne Henriette Snoy (mildew?) -- Dunno.

Catherine Mermet -- CAN be mildewy.

Dr Grill -- DUNNO.

Duchesse de Brabant (mildew?) -- Some clones mildew. Some not.

Francis Dubreuil (Barcelona right, not an actual Tea?) -- Yes. It apparently IS Barcelona.
Like many fragrant reds, it can be mildewy here. And it was a weak grower for us. Get it budded???

Le Pactole -- Will mildew when immature or stressed. Otherwise clean. Great bloomer. Will be BIG.

Madame Lombard -- Will mildew when immature, and a little bit when mature. But it's such a bloomer, I don't care.

Monsieur Tillier (big boy right) -- Yes, big and beautiful. And clean. And prolific.

Papa Gontier -- DUNNO.
Rubens -- DUNNO.

YOU NEED: Rosette Delizy, General Gallieni, Licorice Tea, Marie van Houtte (BIG!) Archduke Charles, for sure.


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RE: A Tea Garden

I've heard quite a few negative reports about Rubens and took mine out a long time ago; really not that attractive. Mrs. Dudley Cross unfortunately does mildew for me during the cooler seasons. Rosette Delizy is excellent for me and always has blooms. It's a little taller than wide but still a shapely bush. William R. Smith has not done well at all for the past two years of drought and has no blooms at all. Mme. de Sombreuil is fabulous, especially for such a young rose, with lots of buds all the time and no disease at all.

Ingrid


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RE: A Tea Garden

thanks Jeri.

I have Archduke Charles. He is doing pretty good but something munched the leaves off one side of him

If I take out the orange tree I will have room for an extra large rose down there. Do all of these dislike any pruning at all or are they okay with minor touch ups?

If Mme Berkeley is a VW what do you think Marie VH, Mons Tiller and Le Pactole time will be? I think i can park a few VWs down there. I'll

What I should do is have a garden day and have you all visit for ideas


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RE: A Tea Garden

Ingrid

Good to know about Rubens

I forgot to list Mme we Sombreuil, I was going to put her down there too. It might be a ad cooler down there and damper

I did cover the soil with a thick layer of horse manure and woods chips so the soil should be pretty good by the time I put anything in the ground


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RE: A Tea Garden

FWIW I think that Rubens might be an excellent tea near the coast if it blooms with more regularity when it's mature. The plant itself is very clean and is growing at a slightly slower rate than Rosette Delizy. It may be one that doesn't love intense heat, but only time will tell.

Jay


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RE: A Tea Garden

Thanks Jay. I found Rubens in a 5g so it would start out bigger

It seems wetter down there than one would expect considering the lack of rainfall. On the other hand. Some of that might be due to the damp migrating from the top of the hill and veggie garden. That was a nice surprise when I was digging the other day. Not garden moist. But not bone dry either. I have heard that the area was more seasonal wet lands before the city pumped that aquifer decades ago. I remember the townhouse lot having a little lake in rainy years and the boathouse dock


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RE: A Tea Garden

Mind, I am ONLY speaking for what we have experienced in OUR coastal garden.

Kippy, it's hard to compare Mme. Berkeley and Marie van Houtte, as their habits are so different. MB is twiggier and denser. MvH is definitely taller and wider, but far more open.

Like Ingrid, we had severe mildew trouble with Mrs. Dudley Cross.

As for Duchesse de Brabant -- some clones seem to mildew badly, others don't.

Kippy -- There WERE wetlands here and there across the Oxnard Plain, and further up. Most of them seem to have been efficiently drained -- with a resultant loss of wildlife. :-(


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RE: A Tea Garden

Thanks Jeri, I think our conditions are both very similar and kind of different. But generally similar. Some day you have to visit and you can see what you think for yourself. I think Marie Van Houtte might be good to put on the street side of the Tea garden. It will have a hedge one day, hopefully, of Cl Cecile Brunner behind her, I would like to keep room to walk between the roses. So I guess I will have some measuring and planning to do.

We have coyote and a bobcat that visit from the other side of the fence. I just hope they stay on the other side of the fence. We still have the hawks, variety of birds, raccoon, and of course more skunks that anyone needs and they all seem to visit nightly. Hoping I can keep the bunnies-gophers-moles on the other side of the fence.


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RE: A Tea Garden

I'll tell you -- gophers are the big danger. When you start putting plants in the ground, and watering, the gophers may migrate in. They sure did here, and they refuse to leave.

And nor, we won't poison them. I HATE that.

Our creep of a neighbor does use poison, and we periodically find dying gophers staggering across the street toward our place. I really fear that some of them may make it through our fence, where a dog may eat them, poisoning the dog.

We don't have skunks tho! :-) Good for us!


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