There is some shade if needed. A couple of climbers up posts/rebar arches might be nice. And there are places for taller and shorter. I would like to define a couple of entry points. It is visible from the street gates, I am not trying to completely block the view but would like to direct the view It would be a nice place to sit and visit with the neighbors as well. The house has a nice view down there too

Judging from the out of stock listings, I have some time to work on the layout, elevations and hard scape .

Any suggestions as better Teas or ones to skip?

Since the two teas in my propagation box both look pretty sorry, when and how have any of you had success in starting them? Shameless request for cuttings if you think they will start. I figure I will keep in large pots for a bit while I decide if the layout works and decide about the three marginal fruit trees in the general area. A sickly orange mom wanted out, the pear with the fireblight issues and the odd shaped peach we already replaced and decided we like others better

Thanks!!

Safrano, Comtesse Emmeline de Guigne, Susan Louise (What I suspect is this rose gets huge here at a nearby home), Souvenir de Pierre Notting, Marie Van Houtte, Puerto Rico, Mlle. de Sombreuil, Devoniensis, Miss Atwood, Lady Roberts, General Gallieni, and DdB (at least from Jeri's experiences with it here) seem to be a bit more mixed in their reviews, but generally liked.

I have a few and have planted around 8 teas for my mom in the past two years. Adam went and croaked a few weeks ago. I really wanted that one to succeed, but I'm now trying Souvenir d'Elise Vardon from RU. Rosette Delizy is definitely the best so far. Rubens has been hesitant to bloom, but healthy. General Schablikine recently arrived, but General Gallieni has been very healthy even though it arrived instead of Gilbert Nabonnand which also came recently during the RU summer sale. The others are Madame Berkeley, Lady Hillingdon, Madame Lombard, and a Puerto Rico that's coming in the fall.

I'll let you know how these cultivars fare, but I'm sure Jeri and others have a better sense of which varieties do best in the long run in Coastal So Cal. I would guess that there are some that people just don't report about in these conditions that are worth growing, but it would take some experimenting to find out. I have no idea how Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux would do here, but it seems worth a shot to try it. Same for Baronne Henriette Snoy and many others.

Jay

Marie D'Orleans is similar to Madame Lambard, the flowers are a darker pink. She can get huge and has big thorns.

I have G. Nabonnand planted recently, once it is big enough, i will try a cutting but it is a baby now so that will be awhile.

I also have Archduke Joseph who is also taking off like gang busters. Another one that could donate cuttings in a while

I am thinking of moving Lady Hillingdon, new thread for that question. I really want a climbing version, but it seems that is harder to find. Someone had mentioned that the climber is more vigorous.

I have Safrano "near" by Mutabalis, they looked further apart before Mutabalis. I think Mutabalis likes our gardens, it looked like a pretty miserable plant for the first month but now it is busy on the Safrano side and I love the color of the new growth.

Not doing well in my propagation box is a cutting of Belle Portugaise, no gasping how lucky I am that it is not looking good. Linda said it is probably from an early import from a local botanist so it would be kind of neat to have a rose of his and besides, I have far too many persimmon trees so it can have one or two.

Any thoughts on these not being good picks? I can not pick all but any thoughts on some being too similar or fussy? Any sizes different than listed?

Baronne Henriette Snoy (mildew?)
Catherine Mermet
Dr Grill
Duchesse de Brabant (mildew?)
Francis Dubreuil (Barcelona right, not an actual Tea?)
Le Pactole
Madame Lombard
Monsieur Tillier (big boy right)
Papa Gontier
Rubens

This will be a fun project, the bottom part of the property has always been ignored and had very little regular use.

Regarding DdB, how bad is mildew where you live and does it carry on all year long or is it a seasonal thing? In my area we do get quite a lot of it but only in spring and fall. This year has been a perticularly bad year for PM since our humid spring lasted for ever (Late Feb to early June). Yes DdB gets mildewy. My young grafted rose still in a pot did get a severe case of it in spring but this never stopped her blooming. It seems to have shaken it off now with the dry summer onset. If you are the sort of gardener who cannot tolerate any leaf disease then you might want to stay away from it. However you will be missing out on a very impressive Tea rose, a blooming machine which seems to be blooming more the warmer it gets! I would give it a try if I were you. Keep in mind that you will need to provide her with lots of water to help her resist PM and look her best. Definitely not a drought tolerant rose as far as I can tell although this may change once it is established which I understand can take a few years.
Nik

We are north of Jeri and Jay but on the southern California coast where fog is called May gray and June gloom and often does not really break til August plus we are in a drought since my list is bigger than space I don't want to put really fussy or sick plants in. But if they are more like Iceberg who also mildews but does not care then it is a different story. Especially if they bloom consistantly and have a nice scent

Mme Antoine Mari is on my Burling list and Comtesse du Cayla is on the list too.

Ping Dong Yue Ji is very nice too

When do you have the best luck with Mrs Dudley Cross? She is the other failing cutting in my box. One looks like a no-go but will wait and see cause I have given up too soon in the past and pulled up what I thought was dead just to ruin a nice root. The other pot is borderline but hoping

Plenty of shade down there Purpurea would like it there

Your Lamarque is down there on the upper side of the gate looking very happy and busy hiding buds as fast as it can. Not growing tall but spreading out.

Sorry for any misspellings trying to catch all the auto correct changes but hard with rose names!

Catherine Mermet -- CAN be mildewy.

Dr Grill -- DUNNO.

Duchesse de Brabant (mildew?) -- Some clones mildew. Some not.

Francis Dubreuil (Barcelona right, not an actual Tea?) -- Yes. It apparently IS Barcelona.
Like many fragrant reds, it can be mildewy here. And it was a weak grower for us. Get it budded???

Le Pactole -- Will mildew when immature or stressed. Otherwise clean. Great bloomer. Will be BIG.

Madame Lombard -- Will mildew when immature, and a little bit when mature. But it's such a bloomer, I don't care.

Monsieur Tillier (big boy right) -- Yes, big and beautiful. And clean. And prolific.

Papa Gontier -- DUNNO.
Rubens -- DUNNO.

YOU NEED: Rosette Delizy, General Gallieni, Licorice Tea, Marie van Houtte (BIG!) Archduke Charles, for sure.

Ingrid

I have Archduke Charles. He is doing pretty good but something munched the leaves off one side of him

If I take out the orange tree I will have room for an extra large rose down there. Do all of these dislike any pruning at all or are they okay with minor touch ups?

If Mme Berkeley is a VW what do you think Marie VH, Mons Tiller and Le Pactole time will be? I think i can park a few VWs down there. I'll

What I should do is have a garden day and have you all visit for ideas

Good to know about Rubens

I forgot to list Mme we Sombreuil, I was going to put her down there too. It might be a ad cooler down there and damper

I did cover the soil with a thick layer of horse manure and woods chips so the soil should be pretty good by the time I put anything in the ground

Jay

It seems wetter down there than one would expect considering the lack of rainfall. On the other hand. Some of that might be due to the damp migrating from the top of the hill and veggie garden. That was a nice surprise when I was digging the other day. Not garden moist. But not bone dry either. I have heard that the area was more seasonal wet lands before the city pumped that aquifer decades ago. I remember the townhouse lot having a little lake in rainy years and the boathouse dock

Kippy, it's hard to compare Mme. Berkeley and Marie van Houtte, as their habits are so different. MB is twiggier and denser. MvH is definitely taller and wider, but far more open.

Like Ingrid, we had severe mildew trouble with Mrs. Dudley Cross.

As for Duchesse de Brabant -- some clones seem to mildew badly, others don't.

Kippy -- There WERE wetlands here and there across the Oxnard Plain, and further up. Most of them seem to have been efficiently drained -- with a resultant loss of wildlife. :-(

We have coyote and a bobcat that visit from the other side of the fence. I just hope they stay on the other side of the fence. We still have the hawks, variety of birds, raccoon, and of course more skunks that anyone needs and they all seem to visit nightly. Hoping I can keep the bunnies-gophers-moles on the other side of the fence.

And nor, we won't poison them. I HATE that.

Our creep of a neighbor does use poison, and we periodically find dying gophers staggering across the street toward our place. I really fear that some of them may make it through our fence, where a dog may eat them, poisoning the dog.

We don't have skunks tho! :-) Good for us!

I now have a nice berm/swale for the upper part of the Tea Garden that has a nice 1/4 circle shape of about 30' At the street side I have 'Pink Gate' next to a persimmon, the space beyond is another 25 feet.

I am going to make an arch of some sort and move 'Alister Stella Gray' to one side to climb and put 'Barrone Prevost' on the other side (not a climber).

This leaves:

Safrano that I will move
G Nabonnand that I will move

I need to save room for Rosette Delizy

From Burling I have ordered

'Sunset' (any info on this one?)
'Madame Anton Mari'
'Mrs B R Cant'
'Smiths Parish Tea'
'Comtesse du Cayla'

I still have a few others I would like including:
Mme we Sombreuil
General Gallieni
Licorice Tea
Anna Olivier
General Schablikine?
Miss Attwood?
Lady Roberts?

Of all of the ones listed above, what 5 do you think would all be aprox 5' wide or bigger?

Which would be closer to 4 feet wide?

Any have fewer thorns? I know some are listed as nearly thornless but I have to wonder....

Are any short? I figure most roses in CA are not the sizes listed but it is hard to keep track

I think I will plant Marie Van Houte and Mons Tillier next to each other on a different level as a screen for the screen (once I can get them) And Madame Lombard to be across the "bay" from Madame Berkeley

I thought I had a plan and then decided to alter the lay out. I like this much better and I can add a couple of extra plants. I did end up taking out the orange tree and severely pruning one peach tree to make easier to pick. I like what I have much better now than what I thought I had figured out before. Plus it makes two sides of the tea garden, one public and an area that will be more private from the street and just for us to enjoy with the added benefit of any fence crashers finding themselves with one way to go or get caught in thorns (easier for a game camera to catch them) I guess mom climbing my berm and my need to fence it does have a benefit.

Comtesse du Cayla is the mass of twiggy growth with the Jack and the Beanstalk cane pushed through the center out in the middle by the huge Manetii. It's flowers fry pretty quickly in the hot sun here. Now you've endured it, you can compare it to your conditions and translate what I write into how it might do for you in yours. Kim

Ingrid

Jessica

Comtesse du Cayla simply refused to live here, so I never saw her mature here. But she is IMMENSE in the Sacramento City Cemetery.

If I ordered Cl Lady Hillingdon and Belmont Yellow, what should be the third? Something not available on the west coast preferably

Maybe if should put Belmont Yellow and Schmidt's smooth yellow on either ends of that not yet designed arch and see how they look a few yards apart in similar conditions. They are both climbers right

Jeri. What do you this was comtessa du Cayla's issue with your garden? Soil fog heat shade cool. What might make her happy? With Kim's comment I think I will place in a mid day shade spot out of the blast furnace wind zone I have been obsessively checking Safrano since yours all grew backwards for either new growth or dying canes. I think I will move her because the new spot will be easier to watch her

Do some teas do better budded than own root? I seem to have little success in rooting them but maybe that is the time of the year for them.

I need to figure out a mist table using a suspended bucket for water since we shut down our lines most of the time.

Suggestions and ideas welcome!

I have seen my wimpy-even-when-budded Crepuscule suddenly double in size, and cover itself with blooms -- in the weeks of horrible, unwelcome heat. She LOVED it! (I hated it!)

So, I just think that's the crux of the matter.

Tricia

Sorry for butting in Kippy!

Tricia

Anyway, back to GG; It was well over head high - at least 7or 8ft from memory, and maybe around 6 ft wide... I'm guessing it had been left pretty much to its own devices for a few years. It was in full sun, and always appeared to be in perfect health, happy as Larry and blooming profusely. I then saw it had been severely cut back - maybe by about half, but I'm not sure how it fared after that. They used deep straw mulches, but fertilised I believe, with artificial rose fertiliser, which IMO may have contributed to the declining health of the entire garden, under stress conditions. But then, I'm not a rose expert.

The General Gallieni I saw two days ago at the SF Botanical Garden was pruned like an HT and probably not representative of mature GGs that just get minor shaping and dead wood removal. The blooms were lovely and normal, but I've seen some monstrous pictures of GG from Australian HMF posters in particular. I would give it serious room.

The only thing I know about Sunset is that it's supposed to be a sport of Perle des Jardins -I looked it up after finding a local Santa Monica nursery that carried it at the turn of the 20th Century- but the rose in commerce today as Sunset is allegedly a different rose. The pictures on HMF aren't quite the orange, apricot hue described but more pink. PdJ isn't the most reputable Tea, but it is lovely and I hope Sunset works out for you, Kippy. I hadn't noticed Sunset on Burling's list, thanks for sharing that.

I'll let you know how General Schablikine does as it matures at my parent's house. It came as a gallon plant from RU during the Summer Sale. I have yet to see a bloom from it, but the plant has been clean in the month or two there. It has a pretty hefty spot allocated to it.

And yes, DO save room for Rosette Delizy. It's been a terrific rose for Coastal So Cal conditions just as Jeri recommended.

Jay

The plant is from ARE, but it only really takes on the coloring that Jeri's beautiful picture shows when the blooms are more open. RD has really been putting on growth of late and the blooms are getting more vivid in color as the plant matures. The color is lovely one way or the other, but it is nice when RD exhibits a wider band of pink tones.

Jay

I really think DH needs to do some cuttings, come fall, of our plant. OH, and I THINK the Sacramento City Cemetery has our 'Rosette Delizy.'

Jay, the color of my blooms are stronger, even in the bud stage -- except in scorching hot weather, when they do fade some.

(JERI)

yugo, VW bug, VW Bus or greyhound bus?

That Mons. Tillier next to it was a monster, too.

Thank you for the photos, they make the rose seem smaller than my mental picture

Here's my MOns. Tillier at its height, when water was plentiful, and cheap.

Jay

She has been found all over Northern California, and has been collected under many study names -- because she is often not recognized.

The Madam is a prolific bloomer, and a joy in the garden -- but if conditions permit her to do so, she can mildew just enough to annoy you. I forgive her that sin for the joy of the blooms.

If I was looking for roses that could tolerate some drought, and keep performing, this would be one of my first choices. She has survived through truly tough conditions.

Here is where my plant came from:

I am looking forward to getting a madame Lombard

WHY -- Because, for me, Tillier has a handsomer plant habit, and healthier foliage.

And, I really love the blooms, which like most Teas, can differ in color, and even a bit in form, as the year goes on.

(Below: 'Mons. Tillier,' w/"Roseville Noisette")

Disease resistant Teas; notes from 3 no spray gardens in the s.f. east bay area.
Lady Hillingdon, very clean foliage. In another garden closer to the s.f Bayay other plants of L.H. showed mild p.m. during most of the year, but one was planted against a wooden fence and watered with a sprinkler which left the foliage damp making it easy for p.m. to spread in cool weather and at night .
Le Pactole clean foliage.
Monsieur Tilliier' clean and along with Mrs. B.R. Cant by far the fastest growing own root Tea rosebushes.
Most of the other bands of Tea roses I've grown have taken 5+ years to grow to a mature size, (Le Pactole being the slowest to grow) while Monsieur and Mrs. took only two years to grow to be 6'+ ' tall.
Etoille de Lyon; mild p.m. during spring and autumn, I ignore it as it does not affect bloom and is not heavy enough to detract from the beauty of the bush and bloom.
Marie Van Houtte very clean.
Comtesse du Cayla. China-Tea. mild p.m. in spring an autumn, disease resistant the rest of the year.
Le Vesuve China-Tea very disease resistant most of the year. a wonderful rose, very rapid re-bloom with attractive foliage. smoky fragrance, makes me wonder if it was named after Vesuvius?
Souvenir de Victor Hugo only mild p.m..
Rubens: only mild p.m. but It \does bother me that the blooms never open fully, it keeps me in a state of mild apprehension.

Reve d'Or' Tea-Noisette grown as a self standing bush of c. 5 and 1/2 feet tall by the same width: very clean and outstandingly beautiful especially in filtered shade allowing the color to be more saturated.

In my neighbors no spray garden, closer to the s.f. Bay where conditions are worse for the growth of p.m.:
Tea-Noisette: Crespescule mild pm.. usually clean most of the year. If it isn't well fed with good soil and fertilizer the blooms can appear sub-standard, the roses on well fed bushes are far superior, with more petals and a shapelier bloom form. Nice fragrant.
Mme. Lombard; often is covered with a light layer of p.m. but there is never any defoliation, or loss of bloom production from foliage disease.
cl. Devoniensis: a little worse than Mme. Lombard for p.m.
Alliance Franco Russe was given away to a gardener in a dryer microclimate (walnut creek, ca) because the young plant was thickly covered with pm. I saw an A F-R in Oakland that was a mature plant of c. 8' by 8' growing in a property that had been deserted for 5+ years, it never was irrigated and we get 3-4 months of consecutive drought in summer, and the foliage was clean or nearly so all through the growing season.. When I saw a budded plant for sale at the OLd Rose Celebration this year I snatched it up for 5 bucks!

Tea roses that are disease resistant
In my no-spray garden, closer to the san francisco bay where conditions are even worse for the growth of powdery mildew:
Mme. Berkeley is the most disease resistant Tea in my garden.
Westside Road Cream Tea, very disease resistant. a wonderful white Tea,
Monsieur Tillier, very d.r..
Clementina Carboinieri rarely shows any p.m. and its foliage is a wonderful contrast, blue-green, against the colorful blooms which arel the color of a tropical fruit punch; rich pink, apricot, gold, and the hue of orange juice flushing through all as the bloom matures. Luannes is more than 8' tall, mines still a baby.
Souvenir de la Pierre Notting: light p.m. and the blooms hang on the bush a long time with the outer row of petals crumpled and brown, I prefer Etoille de Lyon for its fragrance.
Rosette Delizy, squeaky clean most of the year.
Celine Forestier Tea-Noisette, light p.m. easy to ignore.
Marachel Niel' T-N . light p.m. (weak on its own roots, mine gave up the ghost last year after I pampered it for 3 years) I love it so much I was going to learn how to graft roses to graft it on rootstock, but it didn't leave me even enough for chips. sigh. I adore that rose.
climbing Kaiserin Auguste Viktoria. I list this because it was sold as a Tea-Noisette long ago and it is evergreen in my garden, of all the Tea-Noisettes I've grown the only one to never lose its leaves in winter.
Reve d'Or very clean when mature.
Mme. Franziska Kruger; light p.m., when foliage is damp from irrigation or rain.
Mrs. Dudley Cross; very disease resistant, a beautiful Tea rose.
Le Pactole very clean. Many Teas grown from a band size as own root plants, can take 2 or 3 years to show the full beauty of the bloom and bush, this is one. I almost gave up on it, but in its 3+ year in my garden proved to show it to have an "exquisitely delicate" style of bloom. An exquisite beauty, deserves the name of "The Goldmine" though mine blooms more usually white, than lemon-gold.

Tea I wish I had;' Anna Olivier' I asked a woman where she got her bouquet of Anna Olivier that she was putting in a vase at the Old Rose Celebration a few years ago and she said "There' s a bush growing by the highway near Santa Cruz" Never irrigated, and the foliage was clean of disease.
The most heavily perfumed Tea rose I've ever put my nose to.

Mild p.m. if foliage is sprayed with water:
Lamarque' otherwise quite clean as a mature bush.
Mme. Antoine Mari : my neighbor grows hers in partial shade where it gets covered in moderate p.m. most of the year but doesn't defoliate or lessen in bloom production:
I grow mine in full sun, where p.m. is much less of a problem
Alexander Hill Gray; mild p.m. as a young plant.

Too much p.m. to recommend under the same conditions;
The absolute worst two for p.m..in my no spray garden in Oakland, ca;
1. Ducher , had more than 70% defoliaton from P.M. and never produced more than a half dozen roses at a time and was shovel pruned, a much more healthier choice for resistance for p.m is W.R.C.T. it grows to be c. 4 and 1/2 feet tall by about the same width and has a delicious fragrance.
2. Georgetown Tea defoliated from p.m. and never produced more than 3 roses.
These are covered with p.m. most of the year, but do not defoliate and bloom production is not affected. The foliage does appear as though someone frosted these plants with icing. .
Mutabilis
Mme. Alfred Carriere

Good luck,
Luxrosa

Printed that list out and clipped it too.

How is your Alliance Franco Russe doing? I look at that rose every time I consider options on Rogue Valleys website just wondering if it even survives here or just for other people.

Do any of you think there are some of the teas that just do better budded than own root? Which?

For an example, most of us have seen how slowly Teas tend to grow as new, own root plants. My Moser Striped grows between Secret's Out and where you and I dug Aptos out of the ground, under the walnut where it gets a bit of shade. This is the new growth so far this summer.






That's four stems, with four to seven buds per stem. Taking cuttings would require the removal of all of that growth with all the foliage (food producing tissue) and wood (nutrient storing tissue) with no guaranty of success. For most of us, each stem would provide one, perhaps two cuttings each and leave the plant set back where it was at the beginning of this summer.

Contrast it with this. These Pink Clouds stems were wrapped and rooted January, 2014. Pink Clouds is MUCH easier and faster to root than Moser Striped. I know, I've done it. These buds were inserted June 14, 2014. One maiden (first growth of a newly budded plant) is forming a flower bud. No, I am not going to disbud it. Reading the Victorian "rose bibles", supposedly the maiden bloom of a newly budded plant is often the best the variety can produce. I want to see what the best of Moser Striped looks like. Once I do, I will disbud it until it produces the plant I want.

Each of those previous stems contains four to seven buds. That is the potential for generating four to seven individual plants from EACH stem. However, the budded plants out front were created from buds I harvested from the own root Moser Striped plant without cutting any material off the plant. I laid on the ground with my single edged razor blade and a cup of water, slicing out the buds I wanted to use, leaving all the other wood, leaves and buds on the mother plant. You can't do that taking cuttings.

You can use one bud per stock, or multiples if you want to both hedge your bet for success as well as produce a fuller plant, faster. If nothing else, once there is a budded plant of it, there will be many more cuttings available, faster than there would be with only the own root plant. If you use a stock known to not express symptoms of any virus, whether it's an indexed type or one which has been maintained as clean as possible for its life, such as Pink Clouds, your chances of infecting the budded rose (as if these older types which have been passed around from one producer to the next, usually budded, for the past century actually stand a chance of NOT being infected) are every bit as good as rooting cuttings of the rose.

So, since you haven't been able to root Teas, and since they push a whole lot faster budded, and since you can harvest buds from a plant without removing lengths of canes, and since you can literally visit someone's garden with small containers of water which you can seal for travel to harvest buds or damp toweling to wrap harvested bud wood, you would be able to visit friends who grow what you want, collect what you want to grow and go home to produce the plants you want for your gardens. Seems like a win-win to me. Kim

From the rootstock cuttings you gave me, I hope to have 2 sets of mother plants to put in the ground in 2 different locations plus have a back up. With extras to share or just use as rootstock, I do have a friends son with cloning experience and an ag school degree who might just enjoy working with roses instead (and a with fence to cover)

It does seem like one of the classes of roses with many usually listed as unavailable are the teas.

We rarely water our old citrus trees, but often about this time of year they are screaming at us "hey bring that hose over here" But oddly this year, only two were doing that. One is in the main garden so it gets water consistently...but that other one...hmm must be looking good because the hose bib is just up the hill a couple of yards. Oh no...it is because the "T" rusted out and finally made a big enough hole to blow out. Thank goodness for that shut off we use. But now this means we have 0 irrigation water other than one 1920's hose bib on the back of the house.

So a fun day of gluing and running pvc lines, with lots of new shut offs sort of where I wanted them found me finishing up after dark at moms (she was not making things easier) and what could happen next? How about shocking the skunks that visit? Thankfully they did not spray me, but I must have surprised them in the dark that night. And they sprayed a couple of yards away.

The broken part of the line is still broken, but at least I can water the veggies that remain, the baby fruit trees and the roses. PVC to hose to hose to the house bib...lol

Ugh (plus work issues this week too)

So, back to more fun things to think about.

With the big tea row, I would like to put Salvia Greggii on the dry bank offset with the teas, any ones you think would look better with softer colored Teas? I checked today and they have 2 different purple shades plus a pinkish one. I think I would like the pink but that will be less contrast than mixing in the purples and mom does like the purples.

None of them fight each other, nor to they clash with the surrounding Teas and Noisettes.

I too have a Clevlandii hybrid (probably 'Allen Chickering') in the vicinity of a tea. Just two days ago I planted Lady Hillingdon "next" to it. There's plenty of space between them occupied by filler for now, but when mature they should look terrific. Lady Hillingdon came as a band from Burling in the Spring and it was getting root bound in its two gallon container so I opted to plant it without any five gallon containers on hand. I remember you mentioning your Lady Hillingdon was somewhat stagnant in its growth, Kippy. I hope that turns around!

Jay

In dank periods, she would fail to open. But if you removed the [rather stiff] guard petals, the blooms would then open normally.

And, if picked tightly, she had a good vase life.

Rose show judges absolutely loathed her, as she never even pretended to aim for pin-point centers. Their loss.

I have made lists, spreadsheets, X's in the dirt.... and am still having a personal debate with my self who goes where but for now I am planning or have:

Baronne Prevost on one side of an entry arch (TBD) and am going to move Allister Stella Gray to climb this arch on the other side 'Sunset' from Burling (guessing the Climber) and then in some order making a large C shape:

Smiths Parish
Safrano
Mrs. BR Cant
Mme Antoine Mari
Rosette Delizy (ARE)

For the lower level (hope they are all the sizes listed):
G Nabonnand
Comtesse Festetics Hamilton
Anna Yung
General Gallieni
General Schabilkine

Noelle Nabonnand for a pillar at the lowest level.

I have a few other spaces open for other roses, but going to start with these.

Now to find a place for Marie Van Houtte, a big one :)

You mentioned Mrs. Oakley Fisher in the other thread and I actually just added one to an ARE order of Mrs. Bosanquet. My mom will be getting the Mrs. Oakley Fisher, so I'll let you know how it does for her. Every plant I've seen has been just beautiful. It reminds me of a single version of Lady Hillingdon.

Jay

My Lady Hillingdon has put out a 2 foot cane!! I decided, prior to the new cane, to leave her in her spot since she was doing better this summer and my cherry tree will be bigger next year for a bit more cool

Sorry to her about your experience Kim. Do you think it is just too dry here?

Lady Hillingdon was slightly mildewy most of the time till I planted her. She's been very happy since going in the ground in a very sunny spot.

Jay

Smiths Parish -- STAND BACK! Huge! But always in bloom.

Safrano -- Weakling, here

Mrs. BR Cant -- Grew indifferently for us.

Rosette Delizy (ARE) -- GREAT rose here!

For the lower level (hope they are all the sizes listed):
-- I WOULDN'T COUNT ON THAT!

G Nabonnand -- Plant of generous size, rather open, Blooms A LOT, Disease-free.

General Gallieni -- Still in a pot, poor guy. Totally disease-free.

Jeri

Jeri

BELOW: 'Gen. Gallieni' in cool weather.

You're right, Maria. There is an enormous amount of knowledge on this forum. Imagine how many plants we're all had to kill to learn so much about them! LOL! Kim

We went through the stubborn period, in which we insisted upon trying to grow things we were told by others would not grow here. (The others were right.)

We went through the period in which we had to have the newest introductions. Particularly the newest Austins.

It's all been a hell of a learning experience.

On that note, Lady Hillingdon has put out a 24" cane and a couple of blooms. Crepuscule is still about a foot tall, but looking fairly happy. And Safrano has gone from sitting and doing nothing since mid June to exploding with new red growth.

Still no planting holes, but lots of fence post holes are in and some garden wire fencing, should keep mom from scaling the berms and funnel the access to areas we can keep an eye on.

Since I started this idea, the use of the garden space has flipped. What was going to be open for the chickens to free range and the chicken free zone are now opposite. I now have some roses to protect from chickens, but even more I do not have to worry about.

Anyway, another few Sundays and the fencing/arches/gates will be done and painted and ready to put those roses in for that first real rain....when ever that is.

The rose and nursery industries thank you! Kim