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lynn2112

Annie Laurie McDowell?

Hi, I am on the wait list for A.L.M. Does anyone have any insight or strategies regarding actually getting this beautiful rose? Are there any suppliers other than Burlington? I am just taken with it; and unfortunately, I showed an image of it to my hubby, and it epitomized what he likes in a rose; now I find it would be a really special rose to have.
To add a frame of reference, as far as he is concerned, the garden is my baby. He secures my trellises, digs holes when need be, and walks through gardens with me without any complaints. He has only commented regarding a handful of roses among many, one being Golden Celebration, so acquiring anything he really likes too is special.

Lynn

Comments (33)

  • bluegirl_gw
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Haha-- get on a waiting list. It's wildly admired & has been talked up quite a bit here--with lots of lovely photos, too.

    I'm on a list, too. I think several others besides Burling list it, but I don't know of anyone who can send it right now.

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I got mine this year from Long Ago Roses (see link below). The website doesn't seem to have been updated to include this among the inventory, but Kim Rupert told me to ask Linda if she had any this year -- and she did. I don't know how many (if any) are left, but it's worth shooting an email.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

    Here is a link that might be useful: Long Ago Roses

  • fogrose
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just so people don't get disappointed, Long Ago Roses does not ship to the these states any more...CA, OR, WA, NV, AZ, ID , or UT.

    Diane

  • annesfbay
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I tried to order ALM from Burlington this past fall but she was out so I ordered Renae instead. I believe ALM is a seedling of Renae. You might want to look up Renae and see if you like it. My two Renae's are very vigorous so far in their pots.

    Anne

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I saw Renae at a local nursery and would have bought it on the spot except that it was shaped as a tree rose, long skinny stem with a tuft of flowers on top. I did think the flowers were very lovely, although different from ALM. It's supposed to be a really excellent rose in every way.

    Ingrid

  • roseseek
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Renae is a great rose. The flowers are more single, so they don't last quite as long and the scent isn't quite as strong. The wood is a bit more limber, so it's a little easier to train as a rambler, as opposed to a "large flowered climber". They're both as shade tolerant, healthy and prickle free. I've admired Renae for twenty-five plus years which is why I raised the seeds which led to Annie Laurie McDowell. As far as I know, only Burlington and Long Ago Roses are offering it at the moment, but I don't know of any currently available plants. Here it is this past weekend at a friend's house in Torrance, CA, just down the hill from South Coast Botanical Gardens. It's also budded as a weeping standard. Because of Renae also being slow to mature, "the majors" have only offered it as a budded weeper for some years. Week's was the last one to sell it of the major producers. Kim

  • Lynn-in-TX-Z8b- Austin Area/Hill Country
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you all for the input. Unfortunately I am in Nevada, my family members reside in California so one of the two suppliers is out.

    Renae is a beauty. We were drawn to everything we saw, what I read, but especially the coloring of A.L.M. Strawberryhill posted the image and that was IT for me. My hubby took one look and described ALM as the epitome of what draws him to a rose visually.

    It will be a special rose for us so I shall wait for it.

  • strawchicago z5
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Lynn: Annie prefers a slightly ACIDIC, fluffly like potting soil, and some calcium for root growth.

    I have 2 Annies: One bought last year, which didn't grow until I put used lemon to bring down my pH of 8 hard-well water. I also put acid fertilizer for azaleas in the pot, which made her rootball grew to be 2-gallons for survival in my zone 5a winter.

    Annie is a heavy bloomer, so keeping her root ball moist helps with blooming. I achieved that by planting her 4 inches below ground level, plus more mulch. Own-roots are wimpy ... it's best to plant her in good potting soil in a few hours of morning sun. When the root ball reaches 2-gallon size, then plant that DEEP below ground level, so it won't dry out.

    This year with the second Annie in the pot, I tried a different approach: I put cocoa mulch, acidic at pH 5.4, NPK 3-1-4 on top. It doesn't work as well as my previous Annie. Pots require more nitrogen due to leaching out, so I'll put some acid fertilizer NPK 10-5-4.

    With the Annie in the ground .. she's really short with just cocoa mulch. This month I pushed Jobes' tomatoe spike, only 1, at NPK 8-16-8, deep down to the root zone. She doubled the growth in a short time, which confirm that for a heavy bloomer like Annie, fertilizer is a must.

    Since I bury all my roses 4 to 5" below ground for winter survival, fertilizer on top doesn't work ... even chemicals have a hard time passing through my heavy clay to reach down below. Phosphorus for blooming stay put where's applied, one experiment showed it moved max. of 1 inch. below soil per year. Jobes' spike driven down with a wooden post helped to put fertilizer deep where the root zone is.

    My sister e-mailed me from Southern CA, stating that her Annie doesn't grow whatsoever ... she re-potted in twice in different potting soils, she tried vitamin B, etc.. I told her to put vinegar in her tap water, and it worked. Dry and hot climate tend to have alkaline soil or water, which bind up phosphorus and potassium, essential for root growth.

    It helps to put gypsum in the pot or mix with your soil for Annie. Last year Annie balled in the pot, but after I put gypsum (calcium sulfate), she doesn't ball whatsoever, even with our constant rain. Calcium also helps with root growth, and that's vital for tiny own-roots.

    Below is 2-month growth of Annie, after I pruned down to 4 inches due to snow and hail in April. I'm in zone 5a.


    This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Mon, Jul 8, 13 at 10:30

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the tip, Teresa; I'm going to try the vinegar in the water suggestion since my soil is alkaline. Annie is making some slight progress in her pot, but of course the extreme heat right now doesn't help matters. I would be devastated if anything happened to my precious plant, especially knowing how difficult it would be to acquire another one.

    Ingrid

  • annesfbay
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I hear you. It's better to wait for what you really want. I hope the wait isn't too long!

    Anne

  • Lynn-in-TX-Z8b- Austin Area/Hill Country
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Strawberryhill...you are a "holistic plant doctor". My soil is weird as the front yard is the typical sandy soil and the side yard has clay. Many of my backyard roses are in a 2ft raised planter of which the landscapers filled primarily with sand. Everywhere in my yard I have to amend, amend, amend. I have used a lot of compost, in the spring, an organic cocktail that was recommended by the local rose society years ago, and will shift to integrating well rotted manure. My herb garden actually has worms as there is nothing visibly alive anywhere else except for the Rollie Pollies. Our soil is high in gypsum/calcium sulfate, but it is very alkaline. My plants have iron deficiency issues and phosphorous is often unavailable to the plants. The calcium carbonate in the soil makes changing the high ph an issue.

    I made a big mistake... Blanked out and bought a huge bag of potting mix instead of potting soil. I have no indoor plants...any suggestions regarding use of it?

  • strawchicago z5
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I checked on how much vinegar to add. One site, WikiHow had it way-too much. I reduce to 1 tablespoon per gallon for my tap water pH of 8, any more plants wilt in the heat.

    Other hands-on experience:

    From ChicagoJoe: 1 to 2 Tablespoon per gallon to bring pH of 7.8 down to 6.5. Another person posted 1 tablespoon of vinegar per 1 gallon of water for his 7.4 pH.

  • Kippy
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My new this winter band of Renae has finally decided to take a break from attempting to bloom instead of grow. I thought it was sulking from all the nipping off buds, but I found 3 foot tall cane that I am going to send up the arch made for her.

    I am on the list for ALMcD too, but not holding my breath for one any time soon.

    Kim, are they all budded or rooted? Is that because it is slow to take off?

  • roseseek
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    MANY roses are slow to take off. Try own root yellow Tea-Noisettes and many yellow Teas. Renae, ALmD, Rosarium Uetersen follow suit. Expecting any of these as small, own root plants to grow in a few months is unrealistic. They AREN'T radishes! Put them in a pot with decent potting soil and leave them alone! Repeatedly messing with the roots and repotting them sets them back. Patience! If you don't have the patience to allow them to develop, grow something else. Rose trials allow climbers three years to develop for a reason. Bush roses are only tested for two, and those are traditionally budded plants, which almost always push faster.

    Renae was dumped from many majors' lists for various reasons. It was originally produced by Armstrong until they had their Cl. Pinkie ready. They introduced Cl. Pinkie and dumped Renae. They owned the patent on Pinkie. They paid Ralph Moore royalties on Renae. Week's was the last major producer to offer Renae as a budded climber. Some years ago, they limited offering it as only a budded weeping tree rose. Part of the reason was the size of Renae's buds works better with the thicker standard stocks. Her growth habit suits being permitted to hang downward and can be an issue when and where a more upright habit is required for production. I've heard some dumped Renae because of the urban legend which became gospel about her being "insufficiently cold hardy". It's sad how misinformation so quickly becomes "truth".

    All of these slow to mature types benefit from warm (not hot!) situations where there is good sun (preferably morning), with protection from the hottest afternoon conditions. A good, moisture retentive potting soil which doesn't dry out quickly and won't remain soggy after watering, helps, too. But, they are going to take their own, sweet time maturing. It just their genetic nature, very much like Reve d'Or and others of that type. There is just so much you can do to push them faster. Providing optimum conditions, feeding and watering well and not permitting them to flower are the best method to speed them up. But, continually messing with their roots, either by constantly checking their development or by repeatedly repotting them will slow them down. It will interrupt and slow down the development of any plant. Perhaps you can speed them a bit by playing with the pH. I don't know. That's much too much effort and wasted time for my plate and patience. I just give them what I've found works for me in my conditions; put them in the optimum spots I have; keep them watered and leave them alone to do their things. It works for me.

    Once they've developed the root mass they require to support the top growth they are programmed to produce, they will quickly show you they're ready. Until then, be patient!

    None of the producers for Renae and ALmD bud them. They're all own root. I sent bud wood to K&M this summer for them to test it in their gardens. If they like it, they may bud it to Fortuniana. I've heard nothing yet. Kim

  • roseseek
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lynn, you can use potting soil in the ground. Just not as much as you might planting mix. If you can't return it for what you want, just mix it in with all the other stuff. Organic material is organic material. Potting soil is just more of a soil replacement so it can get gummier in the soil. Or, as one friend did, add it to the mulch. She liked the look of Miracle Gro Moisture Control potting soil, so she mulched her planters with it. Worked just fine, it was just expensive. Kim

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Excellent advice, Kim. I wouldn't dream of taking a plant out of its pot to check the roots; I'm just glad to have gotten it into the pot in the first place. Having the roots poke out of the bottom of the pot seems like a pretty good indicator to me. I did just water with a tad of vinegar in the water. The next time I'll put in a very small amount of fish emulsion and that's as daring as I'll get.

    Thanks for the info on why Renae is used as a weeping tree rose. I personally don't care for that look in my informal country garden and would have been thrilled to have seen a "natural" Renae instead. Of course the big companies know best what their customers want....

    Ingrid

  • roseseek
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, they'll generate what people will buy. Discontinuing Renae as a climber was more of a production issue than what would sell. She sold. She was just a more costly climber to produce in that form due to time to maturity, growth habit and cane breakage. It's much more difficult to send out Grade 1 plants of a climber which wants to lay down instead of grow bolt upright. Kim

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kim, I think I managed to beat the odds and get a yellow Tea-Noisette to grow fast. It's all based on your premise of TPN (Total Parental Nutrition) and disbudding. See the last post in the thread below for an update on my 'Jaune Desprez', showing two and a half months of growth in a 2-gal pot with a rich soil mix, placed in full-sun and receiving ample rain. It's still not the biggest in the bunch, but I'm pleasantly surprised at its rate of growth.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

    Here is a link that might be useful: Some before and after showing growth so far

    This post was edited by AquaEyes on Mon, Jul 8, 13 at 14:40

  • roseseek
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Congratulations Christopher! That's often what it takes, particularly in a harsher, colder climate. You want as much bulk and momentum on the plant as possible before the real "winter" kicks in. That's definitely not an issue here, thankfully. We need those for the plant to endure being baked in 'summer'. Kim

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm hoping "the treatment" works for ALmD. It was tiny when it came last month, but has new shoots from the soil line already. All the bands are "baking" in the heat and sun right now. We're not as hot as where you are, but temps in the low 90s with high humidity seems to be enjoyed by most of my bands -- but I'm also not letting most of them flower now. I also wonder if all the organic matter in my potting mix is generating extra CO2 as it decomposes, giving an extra growth injection. It certainly attracts the mosquitoes....

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • Kippy
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you for the info Kim!

    I am looking forward to Renae, but as long as she is growing, I am being patient. I have other plants that were supposed to flower after a year and the ground that I am still waiting on..... (I can hardly remember what they were supposed to be-but there they sit)

    I am with you on letting happy or holding their own plants be. First I have too many other things to do to worry about them and second, I figure messing with them is more likely to kill than help.

  • roseseek
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That's what the treatment appears to do, Christopher. Whatever all the various actions which take place are, they WORK. That's the bottom line. Kim

  • ms. violet grey
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Who was Annie Laurie McDowell?

  • roseseek
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago


    Annie Laurie McDowell as a gracious, vivacious (and terribly funny!) lady who came to Los Angeles in the mid to late 1940s from Colorado to "become an actress". She studied and performed at The Pasadena Playhouse, was "discovered" and became the nightly personality on KTLA Channel 5, our oldest, earliest television station. It was her job to introduce the nightly guests and present the commercials. The station felt her name was too 'stilted', so they changed it to Candy McDowell. She and her producer fell in love and eventually married, with Candy 'retiring' to raise their family. She had quite a few fun, interesting stories about her years at Channel 5, with Dean filling in from his forty years at NBC.

    After retiring, they moved to Chatsworth, buying a condo adjacent to Chatsworth Park South and discovered The Homestead Acre there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnie_Hill_Palmer_House She, and her wonderful husband, Dean, joined the Historical Society and took on the restoration of the gardens at "The Acre", as their retirement project. It was there, I met them in 1983 at one of their open gardens, which were held monthly. Rather quickly, they had me joining them, volunteering at The Huntington Library in their rose gardens. My earliest 'funny colored roses' came through Candy, primarily from Peter Schneider (American Rose Rambler editor) who imported many and dedicated his rose, Eden Ellen, in remembrance of their daughter who was killed by a drunk driver. John MacGregor, Clair Martin's predecessor at The Huntington, donated a number of old and rare roses to help jump start the garden restoration. Several were already growing in the garden when Candy and Dean began their efforts.

    The Acre hosted an annual Rose Festival, featuring old, rare and unusual roses Annie Laurie propagated. It wasn't long until their festivals also included roses which had passed through my Newhall garden which were decent roses, but not exactly what I had thought, or hoped they would be, with cutting grown and seedling roses added to the mix. They spent "winter" here in the San Fernando Valley, escaping the summer heat at her grandfather's "cabin" in Beulah, Colorado. Each return brought something new and exciting for the garden from their summer exploits. The rose, 'Pike's Peak' was one find. The Pike's Peak seedling, 'Beulah Belle' was my 'thank you' to the member of The Belles who supplied the cuttings. The Beulah Belles was their ladies civic organization, though the self proclaimed purpose was to "get together monthly to celebrate birthdays and get sloshed". R. Arkansana "Peppermint", the stippled Arkansana, was another. Many came from Denver Botanical and most still grace my garden.

    There were many shared dinners, garden tours and visits and much local exploration over the years. Roses and a lot of laughter were the main themes. I'll let the entry in Comments section I posted to Help Me Find pick it up here.

    A number of years ago, Mel Hulse, of the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden, along with others from that garden, visited my garden in Southern California to obtain cuttings of my collection for their garden. One rose Mel was particularly struck by was Annie Laurie McDowell. At that time, it was simply referred to as Renae Seedling. Mel and others in San Jose began referring to it as "Super Renae" and Mel continued singing its praises. Along the way, I lost the original seedling to flat head apple borers. Mel maintained Annie Laurie McDowell and two or three other Renae seedlings he had collected from my garden.

    I wanted to name a rose for a very dear friend who was responsible for introducing me to The Huntington Gardens and Library and encouraging me to become a volunteer there. Super Renae was the obvious choice. I emailed Mel and asked if he could bring me as many cuttings and bloom spires as possible as we were to meet in Visalia at Sequoia Nursery to film a documentary about Ralph Moore.

    Being the kind gentleman he was and the loyal friend I'd grown to love, he not only brought me cuttings, but a large, foam ice chest FULL of blooming material! All were carefully wrapped and placed in ice to maintain them for the four days it would require before they could be taken to their potential namesake. We spent the time at Sequoia and accomplished our mission. I brought the ice chest home and called my dear friend, who invited me to join her for breakfast the following morning. I brought the ice chest and spent well over an hour cleaning and recutting the stems under water while she prepared our breakfast.

    When all stems were finished, I'd filled a large antique water pitcher with many dozens of bloom clusters in prime condition. The pitcher was her grandfather's, and we placed it on her grandfather's secretary desk. He was a doctor and the case was full of his instruments and medical books. We enjoyed our breakfast while admiring the pitcher full of Annie Laurie McDowell sitting on her grandfather's desk. At that time, Annie Laurie was about 71, so you have an idea of the age of the desk, equipment, books and pitcher and water bowl.

    Annie Laurie had sought the old Hybrid Tea, Annie Laurie, for years. It was an early Twentieth Century sport of Ophelia. The rose is extinct.

    Had it not been for the keen eye, dedication and kindness of this fine gentleman and loyal friend, Annie Laurie McDowell would have become extinct years before finally accepting the name of my dear friend. And, Annie Laurie wouldn't have had a rose she loved bear her name in her last years of life. I sincerely miss them both.

  • lou_texas
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks, Kim, for taking the time to tell us the history. Lou

  • roseseek
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You're welcome, Lou. My pleasure. Kim

  • cath41
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What a lovely story, Kim. It choked me up. (I will have to stop admitting this or you all will think that I blubber all the time. Not true.)

    Cath

  • portlandmysteryrose
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kim, a question: how is Annie in dampish, cloudy spring and drought summer Portland? I'm assuming she's as wonderful here as she is in California--disease resistant and such. My native soil is slightly acid--I used Strawberry's inexpensive test--but my beds are pretty neutral. I don't spray for fungal diseases (or other diseases) or pesty things.

    Comment on potting soil: I have accidentally dumped expensive potting soil into my rose bed native soil mix oh-so-many times over the years due to rushed prep, waning daylight or night gardening conditions, etc. or due to sheer laziness and no other amendments on site. My roses adore it and respond with extra gratitude.

    Strawberry: your home-made test revealed that I have naturally slightly acid soil, but my beds are almost neutral. I puzzled over this mystery until I researched the acidity of ash tree leaves. I use them to create amendments and to mulch the beds. Apparently, they are alkaline. Mystery solved?

    Carol

  • ms. violet grey
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I want to add a thank you too. The best part of the story is that she lived to see the rose. I bet she's smiling at the thought of people getting on waiting lists!

  • portlandmysteryrose
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kim, thank you for the detailed instructions and feedback. I'm going to try Annie after (a) she's available and (b) I plant most of my current potted roses in my redesigned beds. Your background description was a wonderful read! My daughter will hear it repeated after I plant Annie. She has learned the names of most of my roses and has memorized accompanying stories. Carol

  • bart_2010
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've bookmarked this thread so I can read it when I have time.I'm interested in what Kim has to say and am looking forward to hearing the story; now, if only I can manage to get a plant of ALMcD....
    I'm glad you're back, Strawberryhill! Your experiments are fascinating and I want to try some of them myself. Alas, however: I'm finding it impossible to even keep up with watering my pot ghetto, let alone follow a fertilizing scheme! Bad, bad and busy bart!

  • roseseek
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hopefully, things should improve dramatically soon! Burlington has received two large loads of material this year. Long Ago and Angel Gardens have both received decent sized boxes of material. Heirloom has it in production for 2015 release from what has been written here by others. Keeping my fingers crossed! Kim