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| SOOOO I have read and read all the nay's and yeasss and I made a decision. When I look at my two Austins they both are less Blackspotted than most of my other roses. Since I live in the cool PNW and my street is pretty shady with lots of pine trees I decided that for me I am going to make my own decisions on these roses and quit reading. It gives me a headache. LOL. My Lady Emma is a site to behold this year. Last year I overfertilized..and she was floppy..but this year she is much better and it is her third year in the ground. I do see however what people say about the fading blooms..when it gets hot here..that is about 75-80ish the blooms do fade..so I can see where is hot climates Austins are not going to do well. I am going to replace my Julia Child with Charles Darwin. I just ordered a Tea Clipper from Heirloom roses. For me, for now it's Austin. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| I'd GUESS that in the PNW, you have the right conditions for Mr. Austin's roses. And as I've said all along, the secret to making roses work for you HAS to be choosing roses that are good where you are. For me, for the most part, Austins don't fit those guidelines. But then, the roses that are "right" where I am are probably all wrong where you are. And that OK! Jeri |
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| Austins really are not created equal. They have a varied heritage and some of them like the heat more than others. Sophy's Rose, Pretty Jessica, The Dark Lady, Sister Elizabeth and Cottage Rose seem to do quite well here. I'm sure there are others that won't. Charles Darwin, for instance, which was beautiful the first year, has been a disappointment ever since. It's very much a matter of trial and error. Some roses will surprise you by doing well when you thought they wouldn't, and vice versa. Having to replace roses will keep the smaller on-line nurseries in business and that's a good thing. We've already lost so many and some are on the brink of closing. Ingrid |
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| Ingrid, Yah that's true..it all depends on your climate. |
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| Yes, let's not generalize too aggressively. Austin roses have diverse parentage and each one is different. DA senior's original goals were pretty broad: (a) shrubby habit (b) flower styles other than HT (c) fragrance (d) repeat bloom. Lately, disease resistance has been a consideration. Trying to generalize about horticultural qualities of the whole set of them-- Most are at least slightly hardier than HT in zones 7a-5b and so have found favor in those zones. They are not particularly well adapted to hot summers, but I'm sure there are exceptions. As a group, the earlier ones are no more disease-resistant than typical HT. Most of the recent ones (last 10 years) are more resistant than typical HT. Few if any are highly resistant to blackspot. Some of the earlier ones give little repeat bloom and make excessive vegetative growth in summer. |
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| Some English Roses, usually the ones DA himself has discontinued, do thrive in hot, dry climates. In CA, central valley with water restrictions, I had good success with Golden Celebration--made a spectacular free standing shrub Radio Times--disease ridden, but worth fussing with, IMHO English Garden Symphony (or is it Allux Symphony)? The Dove The Nun--here the fading tendency is a good thing, parchment became soft white Eglantyne--north exposure English Elegance Evelyn--easy care, really, rapid repeat bloom, and flowers of breath taking beauty at every stage. The Prince All of the Mary Rose family. Othello--I rather liked the thorny growth habit. OTOH, Bow Bells had weak stems and too many flowers for the bush. I think it needs a wet climate. Glamis Castle was a mildew ridden disaster. Geof Hamilton didn't bloom at all, nor did Kathryn Morely. |
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| I had to say tho -- Kathryn Morely, while she didn't bloom much, certainly had handsome (and completely clean) foliage in my garden. It bought her 2-3 extra years of existence. Jeri |
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| I've seen many Austins over the years that do well in hot, sunny Southern California. The Austins at the Huntington are magnificent, and I've found that roses that do well at the Huntington also fare well for me. Interestingly enough I was at Eurodesert Roses last year in the blazing heat of summer (and Eurodesert really is in the desert where it is like a blast furnace in July) and his Austins were magnificent too--the whole Austin area was a mass of blooms and healthy green foliage. I'm a little closer to the Huntington than to Eurodesert (in Morongo Valley) and so a bit hotter and drier than the Huntington but not quite so much as Eurodesert. I have several new Austins this year (last year too), and I like them ALL! Wild Edric is a fantastic new rugosa, very vigorous with particularly fine foliage and the most beautiful fragrant flowers that look like a watercolor, as if someone took a brush and swirled the colors around. It is very hard to photograph that color as the blooms practically shimmer in the sunlight. I bought it from Pickering this year in March. It has been doing so well that I ordered 2 more Austin rugosas, Snowdon and Mrs. Doreen Pike. They recently arrived as baby bands from Heirloom but both are growing quite fast and look very healthy. Huntington Rose is also a March newbie from Pickering. HR is a lovely thing and has already bloomed in a somewhat difficult spot in semi-shade. Definitely a keeper (I saw it in January at the Huntington and was so taken with it that I zoomed home and ordered it from Pickering). This is a picture of Wild Edric. I tried taking pics at night as the camera just couldn't capture the subtle color swirls in the daylight. But even at night the camera wasn't able to handle the lovely shadings. Melissa |
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- Posted by henry_kuska z5 OH (kuska@neo.rr.com) on Thu, Jul 19, 12 at 17:23
| Every once in a while some of the parents that Austin was/is using are "leaked". He certainly had some interisting ideas about "new blood" to try. On the negative side the thread linked to below questions whether they are keeping their plants virus free. Are there any updates on this question? |
Here is a link that might be useful: Earlier thread
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| I've always admired Wild Edric but thought in my hot spot of a garden it wouldn't have much of a chance, given its rugosa heritage. I had Mrs. Doreen Pike but the blooms proved to be very fleeting in the heat. Melissa, I'd love to hear how your Wild Edric fares over the summer since we may have somewhat similar conditions. After seeing your gorgeous photos it's certainly a rose I'd consider if it can tolerate the heat. Ingrid |
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| I try not to get hung up on one type of rose, either Antique, English or Austin. There is lots of roses that by appearance could fit the label "Austins and old Garden Roses", and strictly speaking being neither of them. I feel I'm being taken over by clever marketing tricks and a rather narrow definition of both new and old rose varieties. |
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| I have a little bit of info on the virus front. I wrote to David Austin in Texas earlier this year and asked about the virus status of their roses (will have to check my sent mailbox to quote exactly how I posed the question). All I got back was a short message from one of the staff to the effect he or she was asking someone higher up to answer my question. I never got that additional message, so the issue is unresolved as far as I'm concerned. Aha found it! The message was sent on January 28, 2012 to US@davidaustinroses.com: "Hi, Can you tell me which of your rose varieties have gone through either the virus indexing program at UC Davis or the heat treatment program at Florida Southern College? I can find lists with many old and new roses Thanks, Melissa" On February 4, 2012 I received a reply that thanked me for my email and was told the person was, "checking with our stock manager on the correct answer for you and will be back in touch with you very soon!" I haven't received any additional contact up to now. Melissa |
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| Melissa, you have been patient enough. Send that same email back to them and politely inquire again about the subject. And refer them to the previous "conversations" you had with them in the copies of the email at the bottom of your current email. Will be interesting to see what they say. Myself, I've had no more or less problems with Austins, in all respects, compared with all the other types of roses I grow. Kate |
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| Kate, you are right. So I just sent off a reminder to David Austin Roses. We'll see if I get an answer. Just out of curiosity, has anyone else contacted David Austin regarding the RMV status of their roses? If so, did you get a response? Melissa |
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- Posted by rideauroselad 4b/5a Ont (My Page) on Mon, Jul 23, 12 at 20:54
| The Canadian Nursery, Pickering Nurseries grows Many Austin Roses, including Sharifa Asma among others. Many of my roses come from Pickering and I also suplied them with budwood for three of the Griffith Buck varieties that they now offer. Prior to budding and selling the varieties I supplied the wood for, they wanted to know the origins of the mother plants, they took two years to observe the plants that they budded and I know for a fact that they sent the wood I gave them for virus indexing. If you want virus free Austin varieties, they are a very reputable supplier. Below is what they say to the frequently asked question: Q: There's a variety I want but I'm concerned about Rose Mosaic Virus? I've heard that Canadian roses are virus-free, can I be sure? A: "We are absolutely sure that we have no virused plants in our fields. The budwood we receive from our sources is Virus-indexed and therefore virus free. Aside from that, we cover many miles walking our field inspecting the plants for issues such as mislabeled/ stray plants and disease/ pest infestations. New varieties are heavily scrutinized. We want to make sure that the variety is a good one and to be sure that it is healthy and lives up to Cheers, Rideau Rose Lad |
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- Posted by kittymoonbeam so. CA sunset23 (My Page) on Mon, Jul 23, 12 at 21:48
| All my roses from my 2010 order have shown RMV and most of the ones from 2011. I did not order in 2012. It took a few years to see the markings in some cases. I think Kathryn M. is as good as any Bourbon I grow and just as pretty. My favorite bush in the spring flush. |
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| As re. Melissa's query to Austin, re. Virus . . . I had two horribly virused plants of The Dark Lady, which were started from a mother plant obtained by Heirloom directly from Austin. Testing told the Heirloom people that I was correct, the plants were virused. Thus, I would not automatically assume that roses "directly from Austin" were virus-free. Jeri |
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| Well, this afternoon I received a response to my questions from David Austin Roses. I was thanked again for my inquiry and given an apology for the delay in replying. Apart from those pleasantries described above, below is what I was sent. Melissa
"I can confirm that our varieties have not gone through the virus indexing program at UC Davis or the heat treatment program at Florida Southern College. The major problem is that the Rose Growing Industry does not have a clear understanding of how the Rose Mosaic virus is spread. A lot of research has been carried out in this field but no substantive conclusions have been reached. Our decision not to use these two above treatments is that there is no proof that they eradicate Rose Mosaic Virus. We see many rose growing fields in the United States throughout the course of a year. It is true to say that we have seen evidence of Rose Mosaic Virus in all of these crops. We find it most effective to rogue out any virused plants in the field to keep the virus to a minimum." |
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| I don't think Pickering is justified in being "absolutely sure," but they do have exemplary virus control. I've never received a virused plant from them or from Heirloom. I'm sure Heirloom destroyed the virused stock plant from DA USA. They have imported budwood of many varieties directly from Europe to bypass the bad practices used by western USA growers. |
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- Posted by lavender_lass WA zone 4 (My Page) on Tue, Jul 24, 12 at 13:12
| Of course your DAs will be beautiful...you have an English climate, for the most part, right? I would imagine English lavenders would be a nice accent plant. I try to find plants that will do well in my area, based on where they do well in other parts of the world, too. I found that for me, any of the 'tougher' old fashioned roses and the hardy shrub roses stand a good chance, as do some floribundas. Canadian roses and some rugosas are also very dependable. Mountain plants are really the best choice for our region, so I try to find any plants that like hot (but short) summers and long, cold winters. Always a challenge...but we also avoid a lot of the bugs and blight that much of the country seems to fight, due to those long, cold winters. So, when it is sunny and beautiful...the flowers are all happy and healthy. When do we get to see pictures of your garden? I think DAs are beautiful, but the only one I'm trying is my new Cottage Rose this year, since it's a much older DA and is supposed to be quite hardy. Probably has lots of 'tough/hardy rose' in its background :)
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| Pat Austin is a Gem in my garden sometimes it has black spot so what. When I look at roses like roses like Munstead Wood I am in awe if they were once blooming creatures that were covered in foliage crud after they bloomed there would still be rapture for form & fragrance. As so called reproductions of old garden styles they succeed on a number of levels fragrance form color & the a bonus they repeat. |
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| The right rose in the right place is certainly a truism and Austins are the WRONG ROSES for my place. Every one I tried (all in the shade tolerant category) failed miserably and were disease ridden messes so alas no more Austins for me. I'll have to enjoy all of yours vicariously. Diane |
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| Re Austins in the heat, we've had Lilian Austin for 10+ years in front of a hot retaining wall, in all-day (sun up to sun down) sun and hot summer temps in upper 90s to low 100s. She does very well as long as we keep her well-watered as roses should be. |
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- Posted by kittymoonbeam Sunset 23 So CA (My Page) on Mon, Aug 27, 12 at 13:46
| The best DA rose in our warm summers for me has been Tamora. After that I would say Ambridge rose ( the color lightens considerably but it still blooms) and Charlotte. Sceptred Isle is looking very promising as well. If you don't mind a big bush try Pomponella which is pretty like a DA rose. |
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