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Fertilizing Roses in Pots

landperson
12 years ago

Okay, okay, I probably always will be confused about something, and even more probably I'll continue to be a bit confused about this thing, but....talk to me some more about fertilizing when roses are in pots.

This year I have accumulated several HT's and Floribundas and I am keeping them all in 2.5 and 5 gallon pots for a while. I am interested in seeing them put on some good size and knowing better what they are really going to look like before putting them into the ground. So, I'm wondering about balancing the fertilizing for them....

It seems to me that fertilizing roses in pots is a totally different ball game than fertilizing roses in the ground where they can seek out what they need and stretch farther for small bits that might be missing right close to them. Also their need for more water must mean they need more constant replenishing.....right?

So, how do you approach your potted roses that differs from how you approach your in-ground roses?

And, yes, in spite of all of my previous protestations to the contrary, I will even use Miracle Gro if you make an argument on its behalf.....

Susan

Comments (35)

  • landperson
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You betcha !!!

    I get the idea. A few more questions, though.

    When you say "organics" does that mean compost and/or alfalfa pellets etc., and/or does it include things like the Frog Hollow "organic fertilizer"?

    And, what are "pelletized water soluble" types ? Is that what the Florikote is?

    Susan

  • roseseek
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Organics means anything categorized as "organic fertilizer". Alfalfa, Frog Hollow, etc. I wouldn't use "compost" in a pot as it probably wouldn't drain properly. There are sufficient "organic potting soils" out there to fill every need. "Compost" COULD be used to mulch or top dress the pot, but not to plant the rose in the pot with. It may well sour due to insufficient drainage.

    Pelletized water soluble types would be the monthly feeding Bandini, Best and all the other pellet types which are not "organic" and feed approximately monthly, not time release. Florikote feeds for several months, doesn't it? That would be time release. Kim

  • seil zone 6b MI
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've had a lot of potted roses for about 6 years now. They are probably in bigger pots than yours because the pots are their permanent homes but I don't think that would change what you'd want to do that much. All of the information Kim has given you is excellent. I don't use dark colored pots because they got too hot and I don't use terra cotta ones because they dry out too fast. Glazed ceramic ones are just too heavy when filled with wet soil and a full size rose! The thinner plastic pots are OK but eventually crack from UV exposure. The newer foam ones I like best. They are light weight and very durable. Make sure what ever pots you decide on have a lot of drainage holes. The worst thing you can do is have the rose's roots sitting in water collected at the bottom of the pot because it couldn't drain properly. I also suggest putting them up on pot trolleys to help with drainage as well. Sometimes even a pot with lots of big drainage holes sitting on the ground or pavement can collect debris under it that clogs those holes and prevents drainage.

    I do water and feed my pots more often than my ground roses as well. Because you have to have all that good drainage they do dry out faster and the nutrients gets washed away quicker. I give them a good time release fertilizer in the early spring and try and scratch it well down into the soil. On the ground roses I'd use a cup per large rose and 1/2 cup for a mini. In the pots I cut that to 3/4 cup and 1/3 cup. After that I start using Miracle Grow or Peters...or what ever is on sale at Home Depot. I also use Spray N Grow and their fish emulsion called Bill's Perfect Fertilizer. I try to give them something every 3 or 4 weeks throughout the season. Since most of these are foliar feeds I just use the standard package mixing directions. I spray the entire plant, up and down, head to toe, getting the undersides of the leaves, and then once around the top of the pot's soil. And I do agree with Kim, water well the day before so they are well hydrated to start with. You also need to be careful not to use foliar feeds if the temperatures are very high or it will burn the leaves. I try to do it in the early morning if possible or wait until evening. Never at high noon or the hottest part of the day. Oh, and not when it's windy! For one thing you'll waste a lot of it and for another you'll end up covered in it! Not good, been there, done that, lol.

  • buford
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've been using the same alfalfa/blood/bone/cottonseed meal mix in my potted roses that I do in my inground roses. Just less. Just make sure you water well.

  • landperson
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks everyone for the input. Here in CA we don't get any rain at all during the growing season, so watering comes with the territory.

    I water all of the pots every day; it's when I get to walk around and look at them all, tell them how pretty they are, cut off their spent blooms, and generally be glad....

    I had no idea, however, tha they should be watered before fertilizing, and that feels like a hugely important piece to have added to the pot puzzle.

    My potted roses thank you
    Susan

  • organic_tosca
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Susan, THANK YOU for this thread!!! Kim has laid it all out beautifully, and I have always wondered if I was doing right by my own roses, all of which are in pots. I have only been at this for a few years, and am never sure if what I'm doing is right. After advice on this forum, I did put my roses in light-colored plastic pots, since they get the worst, most intense sun of the day. I used Black Gold for my potting soil, and I use MaxSea for my fertilizer (a bit expensive, but I only have 3 roses now, and I always use less than recommended). I also mix some alfalfa meal into the soil at the top in the spring and use a good mulch all year. So far, so good, although I always worry. I'm clipping Kim's post, because it seems to have all the answers!

    Laura

  • roseseek
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sounds as if you have all the bases covered, Laura, congrats! One thing I can't stress highly enough is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! If what you're doing works to your satisfaction, it's the right way for YOU to do it where YOU are. You're mileage is always going to vary from mine and most others. The effects of a change may, or may not be as dramatic as reported, so if something isn't working quite as you'd hoped, experiment but when it works, leave it alone! LOL!

    As has already been stated, there are MANY right ways to grow roses and there is no way any one person can see them all, try them all nor do it in every location. We can give suggestions of what's worked for us, as well as attempt to explain the how and why something works the way it does. It takes you to put it all together and tweak it to fit your conditions. Sounds as if you've done it! Great! Kim

  • Betty Samson
    6 years ago

    I am a new rose grower because I'm building a new house. Roses give such pleasant energy when out at the front of your property. I see what I could be doing wrong, thanks to such wonderful advice! Some of my roses have yellow leaves at the lower part of the plant. Does that mean they're burns? I spray feed them 2x a week.

  • roseseek
    6 years ago

    Welcome, Betty! Congratulations on beginning to grow roses and on building your new house! "Spray feed", as in something like Miracle Gro Liquid in the feeder? That type is recommended to be used every two weeks, not twice a week. I can't think of anything you should feed (or spray) roses twice a week. It is common for the lower leaves on a rose to yellow. It doesn't have to mean anything is wrong. As they grow, the lower (older) leaves get shaded by the new growth. Most plants, including roses, are perfect "communes". Every piece of the whole organism has a part to play and as long as each plays its part, the plant retains and uses it. Once a part stops performing its function, the plant recycles then sheds it. As that older foliage gets shaded by the new growth, it stops producing food (or slows down until it drops below the threshold the plant requires to maintain it), so the rose sucks the chlorophyll out of it, turning it yellow, until it finally falls. Very often, As it yellows, the immune system is reduced and it often contracts black spot (or other spot diseases) and/or rust, helping it to fall even faster. As long as the yellowing foliage is at the bottom and/or inside the plant where the light really isn't good enough to enable the foliage to generate food, everything is functioning as it should and there is nothing wrong. It's when the newer foliage, on the canopy of the plant begins to spot, rust or otherwise turn odd colors you need to inspect and diagnose what the issue may be.

    Most fertilizer is the salt forms of the nutrients you're "feeding" the plant. Nature demands balance. The sap in the plant is usually the same salt concentration as the water in the soil the roots live in. To get the "salts" (nutrients) into the plant, less salty water is drawn from the plant and replaced with the saltier water either in the soil or on the foliage and canes. Foliar feeding works quite well and yes, you can burn the foliage by applying too high a concentration of the "salts". It is a very wise idea to water everything well at least several hours prior to applying any fertilizer, then feed the recommended amount or concentration if it's a liquid, to prevent burning the plant. Burning is when the plant is already water stressed (or nearly so) and salty water is applied to it, pulling too much water out and replacing it with too high a concentration of salty water. If in doubt, water well and feed less than the recommended amount and wait to see how the plant responds. If, after a week or so, it appears to require more, water well, then feed lightly and wait again. You can always add more, but it's extremely difficult to remove salt from the plant and soil and very easy to burn the plant with too much.

    I have pushed seedlings and small own root plants by feeding "weakly, weekly". If the recommended dose is a table spoon per gallon of water every two weeks, I reduce it to half strength and apply it (AFTER watering several hours or even the evening before I apply it) every week. It can make quite a difference in weak or small plants, but it isn't generally necessary for established or mature plants. Whatever you are using, you and your roses will be much happier and successful if you follow the instructions as if you were taking any medication. Except with a fertilizer, you can safely use less without adverse effects. Of course you wouldn't cut the dose of a medication without first getting it cleared by your doctor.

    If you're concerned about the yellow foliage at the bottom of the plants, please post photos here and I'm sure you will get many responses about whether anything is amiss and what to do about it. Good luck and enjoy your roses!

  • Betty Samson
    6 years ago

    Thank you Rose! I foliar feed 2x a week because the gardener at the store told me so. Now when I think of it, maybe she wasn't a gardener. Just the store clerk? The plants look so good at the store, though. So many flowers! But after I bring them home I can't seem to make them flower as much, thus the 2x a week feed. Do roses go through a rest period? When? I don't want to push my roses to exhaustion with my bloom accelerator feed. A new problem I'm having now are little black ants! I have certain rose species I see collecting ants around the buds or even the flowers. I'm very possessive of my roses and don't want to spray a chemical insecticide. So I blast 'em with detergent dissolved in water! Seems to kill them but the next day there is a new army of them working on the buds. I have a how-to book on how to care for roses but they say nothing about ant infestation!

  • roseseek
    6 years ago

    Hi Betty, you're welcome. Presumably, the foliar feed you use has a label with instructions. Follow THOSE, not what the person in the store told you. Twice a week IS too much, period. The usual instructions given on liquid fertilizers say to use every other week, twice monthly. Sometimes, you can find very weak types (such as Eleanor's VF11) which says you can use it all the time, every time you water. That depends upon the guaranteed analysis, the guaranteed percentages of nutrients (salts) in the product. Eleanor's VF-11 has .15% Nitrogen, .85% Phosphorus and .55% Potassium in the applied mixture of 2 tablespoons per one gallon of water. Miracle Gro All Purpose crystals (water soluble) has 24-8-16 from one tablespoon in one gallon of water. The liquid Miracle Gro All Purpose used in the liquid hose-end sprayer has 12-4-8. You can see from the concentrations above why something like Eleanor's might be able to be used every time you water. The chances of over dosing the plant with too much salt are tremendously lower than with either of the two types of Miracle Gro. This isn't meant as a recommendation of either of the products I've mentioned above. They happen to be what I have on hand, and what I can easily provide the information on. Pretty much any fertilizer out there will work, IF applied per the label instructions. Would I apply any of them twice weekly? No. There are too many variables of evaporation, temperature, water stress, hardness (saltiness) of the water, etc. I do traditionally apply a weaker concentration than the labels suggest. I can always apply another feeding if the plants' responses aren't what I sought. You can't take any back if you apply too much.

    Ants aren't generally attracted to roses. What they are attracted to are the sucking insects which attack roses. Aphids, mites, and other sucking insects suck out the rose sap and convert it to sugar, which they secrete. That's called "honey dew". If you have ants on your roses, it's because you have some sucking insects providing honey dew for the ants to eat. Ants farm aphids just as we farm cows (and other animals) for food. Inspect your flowering stems and buds for those insects. Wash them off with water and your fingers, not with detergents or insecticides. Most can be eliminated with plain old water, without damaging the plants or soil. (OR YOU) Detergents contain surfactants which can damage the cuticle (skin) of rose foliage, causing them to yellow and fall. They can also build up in the soil, causing other issues with the plant. As long as drainage is sufficient, water is much more difficult to damage the plants with than any detergent. If there isn't any honey dew to eat, the ants will go away. If ants have taken up residence in your rose pot (or in the soil around your roses) you can usually flush them out with water several times and they will move. There are insecticides you can use on the soil around your roses if you desire to kill the ants if there are too many to encourage moving with heavier waterings.

    Too heavy feeding can result in soft, sappy "water growth" which is much more attractive to aphids and other sucking insects. That sappy growth is also much more susceptible to fungal attack and freezes. More reasons you don't want to over feed.

    Yes, all plants rest after heavy flowering. Flowering is ovulation. Seed set is pregnancy. Everything in Nature is genetically programmed to reproduce itself to perpetuate its species. Flowering plants bloom to ovulate, to encourage a pollinator to pollinate the bloom and induce pregnancy (seed) so those seed will germinate and produce more of the plant. We tend the roses in hopes of inducing them to ovulate, then we practice "birth control" on them by removing the spent flowers to prevent hip/seed formation (pregnancy). Most organisms don't ovulate when pregnant, which is why you so frequently read to remove the spent flowers to encourage more flowers.

    Flower production requires resources. Floral research in the 1970s, funded in part by the American Rose Society, determined florist roses generally required 35 perfect leaves to produce one perfect bloom. Modern roses produce flowers on new growth, new stems. After heavily flowering, most will need to produce many new flowering stems to produce new flowers. That requires time, water, food, heat and light. That's called the "rest". It's also when you usually notice the older foliage toward the inside and lower down on the plant beginning to yellow and fall, often expressing symptoms of black spot and/or rust which both attack old foliage. Roses, and many other plants, pull the sap from the older foliage and recycle it upward to support the new shoots required to support the new flowers.

    I would look for aphids on the under sides of the flower petals and flowering stems, then wash them off with a small, strong stream of water and your fingers. I would keep the roses appropriately watered for your weather conditions and soil type. I would NOT fertilize them more frequently than every other week with a liquid food. If you're using a solid such as an inorganic pellet type or an organic meal, do what those labels tell you to do, AT MOST. Feel free to use less if you want. Using less can never hurt. The worst case is the rose won't respond as dramatically as desired. Too much can injure or even kill the plant. If you don't get the desired results from half strength, you can always add the other half later if you want. Put too much down and it's virtually impossible to pull it back.

    Of course the plants were gorgeous in the store. They had been professionally pushed, groomed, so they would be "retail ready" to be put out for you to buy. If it was from a nursery, once those flowers have faded, they will be pulled back, fed, groomed and allowed to recycle, producing new growth and bloom until they're again retail ready. If it was in a store, very often, once they look "spent", they are either marked down and sold off, or even thrown away. You wouldn't be interested in a tired looking potted plant with no color on it, so why would the store want to dedicate sales space for them? The cost of "damages" is figured into the price you paid for the plant, like the spoiled fruit and vegetables in the produce department. You just never see the spoiled, spent stuff in the store or sales area of a nursery. That's what you're now seeing from your roses. Get rid of the sucking insects and you get rid of the ants. Keep them watered appropriately, feed them per the label instructions and you should have more flowers in a while. How long depends upon the weather. Good luck and enjoy!

  • Betty Samson
    6 years ago

    Hi Rose. Do you see the ants?
    Here is a photo of a rosebush in a pot with yellowing leaves. Does this look normal to you? And yes, I've learned clay pots are not advisable. These plants face the afternoon sun. Give me time to make the change to plastic.

  • roseseek
    6 years ago

    Hi Betty, the buds appear as if there are aphids on the peduncles. You will see the dried aphid skins left after they molt. They secrete the honey dew which the ants eat. If there isn't a hose available where those pots are, you can either use a squirt bottle to blast them off or obtain a one gallon pump sprayer from your local big box store or garden center. Not to advertise them, but Home Depot carries one by HDX, their own brand, for about $10. Fill it with plain old water, pump it up then blast all the bugs off those flowering parts and new growth tips. You may have to do it several times over the course of several days (once a day, usually) for them to get the idea this isn't where they want to live. Is that pot on a patio or on a balcony? Can your pets (if you have any) gain access to that area? You can obtain ant sprays of many kinds to use on the surface the pots sit on and spray under the pots, even on the pot sides, which will work to kill and repel the ants. If there are no pets, you don't have to be as judicious with where you spray the insecticide because there won't be animals stepping in it then licking their paws.

    The other issue I see (other than your clay pots, which I agree, should be swapped out for something which insulates, like foam pots) is how close the pots are to that wall. You describe it as "facing the sun". That wall reflects light and heat as well as absorbing some of the radiant energy as heat, which it further radiates back out from its surface long after the sun moves from shining against it. You have multiple heat types (direct sun, heated pot, reflected heat/light from the wall, radiated heat from the heated wall surface, and that from the surface upon which the pot rests which reacts like the wall surface does). Anything you can do to reduce those heat amounts is going to improve the condition of your plants. Switch to a foam type pot which functions like insulation in your walls, dual pane windows, roof, etc., and move the pots out from against the hot wall to reduce the reflected/radiated heat. It's often surprising just how hot the air along a heated wall can be, even for short periods. I realize it's an extreme example, but years ago I had a nursery client who lived in Agua Dulce, north of the Santa Clarita Valley. He complained he couldn't get anything to grow along the southern facing, white stucco wall of his house. I described to him what I explained to you above and he went home to do some exploration. He reported back that on a 101 degree F day with the sun shining directly on the wall, the air a foot from that white stucco wall was nearly 130F! Where you live and where your pots are may well not be as extreme as that example, but smaller, thinner plant material of a smaller mass, in a smaller soil mass (the larger the soil mass, the better it insulates against temperature extremes), particularly in a much more efficiently heat absorbing/radiating pot can result in greater temperature extremes. It doesn't take very long for a heat (or cold) spike to damage tender plant tissue.

    It's the same issue with patios, drive ways, side walks and stone and rubber mulches with lawns, flowers and ground covers. The fashion now is to switch to "xeriscape" landscaping, using much more decomposed granite and stone mulches. Those get hot in the direct sun! Many years ago, Descanso Gardens installed stone mulch around the roses in the Rose History Walk. It dramatically reduced their labor needed to weed the beds, but it also cooked the surface feeder roots and plants. The bushes looked terrible before they ripped Dr. Lammerts' Rose History Walk out and redesigned the garden into the form they more recently removed and replaced. I see the same issues all over every community I drive through today. Plants which require less water in general, require greater water when planted in hot positions. Anything that increases the heat around a plant, increases its transpiration (sweating), raising the amount of water it requires to simply exist, much less thrive. And, it is so easy to demonstrate. You may not be thirsty standing in the shade; standing in the sun on a lawn or wood chip mulch, but go stand on a paved surface, a stone mulch covered area or against a block wall or stucco house wall and see how much hotter it is and how quickly you get thirsty. You may not believe how often I have received inquiries about why someone's ground cover won't grow against their stepping stones, drive way, side walks, etc. It's just fine out in the "middle" but the close it gets to the hardscape, the more it burns. Well, yeah! The sun reflects off large windows, even those not "mirrored" and melts plastic car bumpers, mirror housings and other trim. There have been cases of sun reflecting off large, treated windows and melting, even igniting patio furniture upholstery. Our living room windows in the Encino house were "mirrored" to reduce the light damage to the interior and the heat transfer. Where the southern sun reflected off those windows and struck the ground, NOTHING would grow. Not even weeds. That area was completely free of any plant growth. I didn't even have to mulch it to prevent weeds and grasses from germinating there. Until the sun reflection was sufficiently direct, weeds would germinate, but as soon as the sun moved around that side of the house to focus the reflection, everything fried and the area remained bare dirt.

    We don't generally think of such things when we plant. We frequently have what we want something to look like in our "mind's eye" and set about trying to make it look like it. But there are frequently mitigating conditions which make it much more challenging to accomplish. And, it often doesn't require much temperature variation to cause real issues.

    How much longer must you keep those roses in pots? Are they miniatures or larger types? Will you be able to plant them in the ground in the near future, or do you wish to continue growing them in pots in that area? If you're waiting for construction to be completed so you can begin creating an in-ground growing bed for them, you may not need to increase the pot size, but if you intend to continue growing them in pots where they are, you probably want to use at least a 20", foam type pot and move them out from against that wall. If they are larger type roses, such as standard HTs, floribundas or even English types, and you desire continue growing them there in that hot position, obtaining even larger, perhaps up to 24", would be best. What are the plans for where and how you wish to grow them?

  • Lisa Adams
    6 years ago

    Hi Kim! I opened my laptop this morning to the post above and read all about the cycle of bloom, ovulation, deadheading to keep blooms coming, etc. I had no idea at the moment who had written it,( I must have just closed my laptop a few days ago w/o exiting). I thought, this I the most clear and easy to understand explanation I have ever read. This guy or gal really knows their stuff! I should have known it was you:) Thanks. I'll be bookmaking this. I've often tried to explain this to "nonrose" people, and you've just made it much easier for me! Have a great day! Lisa

  • roseseek
    6 years ago

    Good morning, Lisa! Thank you! I'm glad it helped and you enjoyed it. Welcome back! LOL! Kim

  • nikthegreek
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    May I just make a sweeping statement here that may sound counterintuitive, controversial and superficially in contrast to what has been said above but, in fact, it isn't: In my climate and soil conditions which are, generally, not particularly suited to rose growing, I grow roses in pots which perform much better than if they were in the ground.. It takes some effort, resources and experience but it can be done.. It all has to do with being able to exercise more control..

  • Betty Samson
    6 years ago

    Thank you again Rose. I must admit all the data you gave overwhelmed me at the start. I moved some of my roses to the back of the house to observe. They seem to do better there. These face the morning sun this time. But there are glass panels behind them so I try to set them as far as I can -- without their falling off the step. in front of them is my lawn so that reduced the heat bouncing around them. They have lesser yellowing leaves now. Yellowing leaves (I sent a photo earlier) bother me in the roses placed at the front of the house to the point some of them are leggy by now. Give me some time and soon I will get them all transferred to the back.

    i thought roses at the front of your house -- under the windows -- would make a welcoming impression to visitors. Now I'm trying to figure out what I can grow there now instead of roses. Sigh. Am disappointed. Ground orchids, maybe?

  • roseseek
    6 years ago

    You're welcome, Betty. I'm glad it helped. Can you plant in the ground in front, or must you put everything in pots? How much room is there where you want to plant something welcoming to visitors as they enter your home? Can you take photos of that area to show how large the space is to help give us some ideas to suggest?

  • Betty Samson
    6 years ago

    Hi Rose. I'm back! I plan to keep my roses in pots. I don't know yet how to plant on the ground. Potted roses give me flexibility. I can move them around. Here's a variety that does well in the tropics where I am

    How'd you like them? My roses are growing well now since I moved them to the back of the house where they face the morning sun. I'm still at a loss what to plant in front of the house and you're right, the roses don't grow there well: too hot. I need heat-loving flowering plants to grow under the windows in front of the house. Don't mention bougainvilleas: they're planted by the dozen at the front of the property. Not blooming now because they're young but summer next year I will see the flowers.

  • roseseek
    6 years ago

    Hi Betty! I'm glad you were able to move them around back where they aren't cooked as easily. That should help you get to enjoy them better. It seems you need something like the real heat lovers. Bougainvillea would be an excellent choice...if the area were large enough. Are there plants like leucophyllum, or Texas Ranger? With any decent drainage, they will flower incessantly with some water and blistering heat. Some of the most magnificent examples I have encountered were in parking strips behind Mimi's Cafe on Hwy 111 in Rancho Mirage, CA where they exploded in the blast furnace conditions. Slow growing, but able to be literally cut to the ground and recover well. They withstand being tortured with hedge clippers and pruning shears and respond by literally smothering themselves with flowers which completely hide the plant when there is some water and real HEAT. They can be rather "rustic" looking for many applications, but their tolerating severe pruning/shearing helps make them more acceptable for more "refined", "formal" applications. They exist in very arid, blistering conditions, but respond to some summer water by exploding into long periods of flowering. What types of plants are there in your area which respond similarly (other than Bougainvillea)?

  • nikthegreek
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    This Texas Ranger plant, which I was not aware of, looks and sounds ideal for my climate and soil... Only problem is I can't get it here..

  • roseseek
    6 years ago

    Perhaps there is a related species in the genus? Surely there is SOMETHING similar where you are? Eremophila, Emu Bush, is related and might suffice. Are there any south African, New Zealand or Australian plants available there? Westringia isn't as showy, but may easily work and there are dwarf and variegated forms.


  • nikthegreek
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    A somewhat related genus is Polygala (milkworts). Polygala myrtifolia, a southern Africa native, is widely available here but, while it isn't thirsty, it is much less draught tolerant. I think that eremophila is available over here, I will have to look it up, but I think these do not bloom in summer.

    Of drought tolerant natives blooming in high summer I know of none other than oleander. Lavenders also bloom well into summer but require a bit of irrigation in order for them not to die in my local climate.

    Texas Ranger might be available somewhere in Europe, I don't know. The problem with importing plants other than ones that can be shipped bareroot is that shipping is too expensive between european countries for any plants larger than a few inches.

    PS

    I should learn to speak after I do a thorough research. Here is a link to a page of an upscale nursery in Athens..

    https://horomidis.gr/product/plants/leucophyllum-frutescens-%ce%bb%ce%b5%cf%85%ce%ba%ce%bf%cf%86%cf%85%ce%bb%ce%bb%ce%bf-1071/?lang=en

    Can they really get that large?

    Kim, thanks a lot for the pointer. I will check this plant out.

    Btw, if anybody wonders why some plants are called -phila and others -phyllum, the reason is that these two suffixes, though sounding similar, come from different words in greek. The first comes from the word for 'friend' or 'loving' and the other comes from the word for leaf...

    Sorry for hijacking this old thread.

  • roseseek
    6 years ago

    You're welcome, Nik! While they may attain that great a size, after a LONG time of never being pruned, they are rather slow growing and they do take very well to harsh pruning. Unless you plan to leave it to its own devices forever, don't worry about them becoming huge. They're not like bougainvillea where they will grow behind your back and eat your yard in a season. They will remain alive without the supplemental water (ONCE established), but like any other "chaparral plant", they won't look good without it.

  • daisyincrete Z10? 905feet/275 metres
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Nik, I was about to post to let you know that Leucophyylum is available from garden centres in Greece, but you found one anyway.

    I have one on the village bank in the front of my house. Unfortunately, I planted Mutabilis in front of it, so I can only see it from the side. It is a very easy going plant and looks after itself entirely. The bank is lucky if it gets watered once a month in the summer, but that doesn't bother it. Here it is 2 years ago, before Mutabilis obscured it. It has also grown well and is about the same height as Mutablis, 5-6 feet now. Sorry, it is not a very good photo.

    Daisy


    Photo won't load, I will try again later

  • Betty Samson
    6 years ago

    What do you do when your rose bush is infested? The pink polyanthas seem prone. The joints have white spots on them. Is that mildew? They also have scales and some joints at the base are brown and swollen, as if they have a tumor. Do you really have to spray chemicals on them? My book lists an array of chemicals I don't know if I can find that around here.

  • roseseek
    6 years ago

    Hi Betty. Whether or not to spray depends upon what they are infested with. Some sharp, detailed photos would definitely help diagnose the issues. Many of the more "fragile" insects can be controlled by washing the plants with a strong stream of water, while others may require more toxic, chemical measures. The "white" could be almost anything from mildew, mealy bug to bird poo. I have a number of my more root bound pots under the protection of the liquid ambers in back and they look pretty awful. There are ring neck doves nesting in them and the crows which strip the walnut in the back neighbor's yard frequently rest on them, so all of those plants are "decorated" with their guano. Some of it sort of looks like mealy bug but it isn't. The "swollen joints" could be the natural growth habit or it could be gall, but there isn't a way to tell without seeing clear shots of some of them.

  • Betty Samson
    6 years ago


    Hi Rose. Here are the "white spots" I was talking about.

  • Betty Samson
    6 years ago


    About the leaves is this normal? The black spots are like dust. Gets on your hands when you rub a leaf.

  • Betty Samson
    6 years ago

    By the way, what do you do with rose hips? I used to cut all spent blooms right away until the book I was consulting advised me to wait till all the petals fall off and then you can get rose hips. Okay, so what do I do with the hips?

  • roseseek
    6 years ago

    Hi Betty. OK, the white looks like mealy bug, a sucking insect. The foliage appears as if you may have spider mites, another sucking insect. The black could well be what is called "sooty mold". Sucking insects secrete "honey dew", which is their "urine". It's processed plant sap and is basically a sugar water, a substance very attractive to ants, which may or may not also be present. That sugar water is "processed" by a mold, which turns black and sooty. There are a number of methods of dealing with all of it. Those insects are often attracted to plants in hot, dry conditions. Changing the conditions can often help control or even eliminate them. Thoroughly washing the plants with plain old water will help remove the sooty mold and drown some of both insects. Literally take cotton swabs with rubbing alcohol and try scrubbing off the mealy bugs. Once it appears you've removed what you can, then take a sponge, or just your fingers and, with water, wash the foliage to loosen and remove a good bit of the mites from the under sides of the foliage and the sooty mold from the upper surfaces. Then rinse the plant well with a strong stream of water. It doesn't have to be a full strength hose stream. You can either use your finger over the end of the hose with a weaker stream to increase the pressure or a nozzle which will allow you to adjust the strength. Will this call ALL of the insects? No, but it WILL remove much of the mold (preventing it from becoming nastier from the addition of the neem oil) and knock down both insects significantly so a smaller amount of the neem mixture would be needed to control them. Do you HAVE to take the above steps? No. You could just spray the plant and leave the sooty mold on the leaves to get gummy and nasty with the oil and the dead, oily mealy bugs stuck to the canes. Eventually, with time, ultra violet, heat and rain, much of that will wash off and those leaves will become old and fall off. Take whichever route you have the interest, time and energy for. I would watch the strength of the neem mixture to insure it isn't too strong. It is an oil and, under hotter, drier conditions, it CAN burn foliage. Yours may or may not currently be right for that to happen, but being aware of the possibility helps take care of the shock of seeing it should it occur. Good luck!

  • roseseek
    6 years ago

    Oops, sorry! I forgot to answer about rose hips. Flowering is ovulation. Hips are pregnancy. Everything in Nature is programmed to reproduce to perpetuate its species before it dies. When a plant flowers, it's simply trying to perpetuate its species. We dead head, cut off the spent flowers, to encourage the plant to continue ovulating in its attempt to reproduce. Most organisms won't continue ovulating when pregnant. What you want from the rose depends upon whether you let it form hips or not.

    Though I have no personal experience with this, it's often written that in more extreme climates, you permit the plant to form hips to help "shut it down", become more resistant to harsher, colder weather. I've been fortunate (at least to me) to not have lived and grown roses under those harsh conditions. Some write that allowing them to form hips during extremely hot conditions should help slow them down, reducing their water needs, during that extreme heat and water stress. Maybe, but hip formation also increases their water needs to form all that "fruit". It is fruit, distantly related to apples and some other stone fruit, and the hip flesh can be processed and used as people food. Ever notice teas and vitamins which contain "rose hips"? Yup, those. If you desire them for culinary purposes, do not use any systemics on the plants. There are enough toxins out there trying to poison you without your helping!

    If you want your roses to continue flowering as heavily as the conditions and their genes will allow, just remove the spent flowers as soon as they form and you are able. Allowing them to remain and begin setting hips would have no "benefit" that I can think of and the only down side would possibly be a reduction in their "beauty" to some and a possible slowing of their repeat flowering. If the rose is one whose hips are particularly attractive and you desire them for floral work or landscape ornamentation, let them form. If you want them to help feed the birds or other wildlife over winter, they're great for that purpose, too. Except, hips are VERY attractive to rats, mice and squirrels. If they are an issue where you are, be forewarned.

    If you are interested in raising new roses from seed, of course you want the hips as they contain the rose seeds.

    This is one of my seedlings. I have harvested the hips containing seeds from crosses on it I have deliberately made. I want to see if it makes decorative hips to add longer seasonal interest and perhaps provide self set seed to possibly raise to explore what else it may create. Knowing that helps provide information to possibly market it if it's found worthy, as well as direct me whether it is a worthy breeder.

    This is Basye's Legacy, a thornless, very healthy species hybrid which I've used for breeding. It is primarily once-flowering, though in this climate, it can provide later blooms. It is deciduous, leaving its autumn colored canes with its colorful hips. They look great in Thanksgiving arrangements.

    Gina's Rose, a Ralph Moore hybrid from Basye's Legacy. Gina repeats but she's also so outrageously fertile, she sets hips all over the plant which require frequent attention to prevent her from fruiting...if you want to prevent them.

    These are on one of my R. Minutifolia hybrid seedlings. They're pretty and it's rather remarkable it even sets hips and seed. I will raise some of them to see what else is possible from the cross.

    This is a sister seedling of the Minutifolia hybrid above. This one flowers all spring through fall and sets copious hips, containing very fertile seed. It is the seedling which has permitted second generation Minutifolia hybrids.

    These are some out back right now and they can be quite pretty. And, yes, you do see spider mite issues in some of the photos because they are an issue here. My conditions will not permit the use of oils of any kind or strength without high levels of foliage and cane burn. Add there are five small dogs of varying ages whose domain is shared by my roses and you can imagine the mess of oily, dirty dogs. Not to mention they eat everything. They LOVE rose hips as to them, they are tomatoes, their FAVORITE treat! I could wash the plants more regularly, but that also makes mud for them to run through, sit in, lay in and definitely walk into the house and on the furniture. If a plant contracts something worse, such as mealy bug, it is moved to an area I can keep the critters out of to be treated by more thoroughly washing until it's clean, when it is returned to its spot.

    So, if you want something from the hips, let them form. If you want more continuous flowering, remove them. Neither is "wrong" nor "harmful". It just depends upon what you want from the plant. Easy, isn't it? Enjoy!


  • nikthegreek
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Good account, Kim. Just a pedantic correction, mites are not insects scientifically speaking, they are...mites. Also mealy bugs and various kinds of soft scale are encouraged by shady conditions. Having the plants in full sun and often removing old, unproductive and dried canes will help the sun penetrate deeper into the shrub.

  • roseseek
    6 years ago

    Thanks, Nik. I try to keep it simple, until deeper discussions are requested.