Second Opinion on RRD

16 years ago

I get some cases of RRD in my garden almost every year. So I am familiar with disease. This time I think my Konigin von Danemark got it. I am pretty sure that this is RRD, but because it is really sickening to think that I am loosing this 6 year old bush, I would like to ask for second opinion, hoping for some miracle. This bush covered itself in fragrant blooms every spring and never had a spec of disease (no spray) during these 6 years in my garden. It was really carefree.

I never use any herbicides in my garden and this bush is next to my driveway from one side and next to the public road from another side. I don't think there is any chance of any herbicide drift from my neighbors, they also don't use them, they actuall have part of their vegetable garden (beans) very close to my KvD.

Olga

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Comments (11)

rjlinva
16 years ago
Olga,

I'm following this thread too. I had picked up three Wildeves about a month ago...one was given to a friend and the other two were put into my garden. One of mine is sending out unusual growth, similar to yours, although there isn't the red on the prickles, I don't think. I'm hoping it's from too much fertilizer.

Robert
michaelg
16 years ago
As I recall, this rose does sometimes have those dense spiralling prickles. I take it the prickles have never been red before? The stem appears to have perfectly normal expanded leaves at the lower end of the area shown. Is there an abrupt change in the prickles at that point? If so, the growth point might have been infected a week or two ago. The only deformity obvious to me is the little leaf about fourth down from the growth tip. There doesn't seem to be any unnatural branching. I guess the new leaves being pale and thin is a bad sign combined with the red prickles, although I've seen shoot tips go weird with apparent deficiency symptoms when there didn't seem to be any basis for it in the soil.

I'm just talking to myself, I guess. Have you taken the cane out yet?
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anntn6b
16 years ago
I think I've gotten all the photos to open.
Some things:
How do these internodal distances compare with the internodal distances from growth in the spring? (Internodal distances are the distances between adjacent leaves. Really tight internodes lead to the name Witches Broom because the tight leaves look to be somewhat like a broom.)
Of the new thorns, are there the big thorns or just all the smaller thorns? I ask in part because I have had RRD on any of my damasks, yet, knock wood, and I wonder if there is a real difference here that we could use. Or not.
To tell this, count one or two inches of old stem and see how many big ones you could expect...and then do the same with the new ones.
From the photos it seems as if there are some new leaves (not the eaten one) that are asymmetric. (Esp photo three, the leaves at left.)
About the margins of the leaves. There's some variability on all roses, but there should be some pattern. It looks as if KvD's old leaves have a big dentition with about three (maybe two or four) smaller dentitions between big dentitions. I don't think that's what I'm seeing on the new leaves.

Re the colors...I don't see as much reddish discoloration on blatent RRD at midsummer as in spring or fall (and I've got a lot of RRD multiflora to watch on the 18 mile drive from Blaine to Knoxville.

Olga, is this on only one or two of the canes? If so, I'd cut them and their supporting roots out and try to save the rest. I think among the OGRs there's a tendency to have a sort of redundency in that a part of a bush can die (or be removed) and the rest can keep going.

I hope this helps.
Ann
olga_6b
Original Author
16 years ago
Michael, the perfrctly normal leaves are from the other branch and also from the mane cane. This is a side shoot and all leaves on it look abnormal. You are right that usually KvD prickels are not red. They can be pretty dense but look very different. I didn't take cane out yet, it is raining here now. I am plannig to do it tomorrow.
Ann, thank you very much. I am not sure about internodal distances on normal canes. There is not much fresh grouth on this bush now, except this one. All the thorns are approx the same size. I looked at the normal canes and there is a lot of bigger hooked thorns mixed with smaller sise thorns on each cane. These big thorns are not present on this one. The leaf you are reffering to is not eaten, it is just like that, all deformed. And you are right about leaf margins.
Oh, well, I gues this is confirmed :(

I am not sure I will keep this rose. Actually several years ago I had another rose very close to this position (approx 15 feet from this spot) and it also got RRD and was removed. I guess this is a bad spot in my garden, probably due to the winds. I am actually surprised, because this is my front yard and the place is opened from all sides, no fence or other barrier around.
I think I am going to put persimmon tree at this location. I was wondering where to plant it and this will solve it. I will order another KvD from Pickering for fall and find another place for it in my garden.
Robert, I sure hope, you don't have RRD. Every time this is sickening experience. I still can't get over the case when I had to remove mature bush of MAC ( I didn't grow it as a climber) that was 10x10', due to RRD. It was one of my favorite roses in the whole garden.

Thank you very much, everybody.
Olga
michaelg
16 years ago
So sorry, Olga.
zeffyrose
16 years ago
I'm so sorry Olga---I'm sure it is like losing an old friend.

Florence
rosyjennifer
16 years ago
So sorry Olga. : (

I'm still watching Lyda Rose and I haven't seen any weird growth since i removed the cane earlier in the year, but I'm not celebrating yet especially since several canes look a bit chlorotic(sp?) and i seem to recall that this might be another symptom...?
lori_elf z6b MD
16 years ago
I'm so sorry, Olga. KVD is one of my favorite roses. I just discovered RRD on my one my roses too and it's heartbreaking.

Remember when you saw the bad canes on my Amanda Paternaude this spring? Well, I took them out and hoped for the best, and all summer it looked like everything was going to be ok, but now there are 3 or 4 horribly deformed new canes since we got that little bit of rain, so I know I have to get rid of her now.
geo_7a
16 years ago
If a persimmon tree, thought you might want to consider one I was going to get (before opting for roses, instead of persimmon & paw paw): "szukis". It is supposed to be a smaller persimmon, self pollinating, and bearing large crops of small, sweet fruit. From Nolin River Nut Nursery.

George

P.S.- if you are still considering a fig, the most cold hardy, in my understanding, would be "Brown Turkey".
olga_6b
Original Author
16 years ago
Lori, I am sorry about your rose. I know you really loved it.
George, thank you. I alrady got a rooted fig cutting from a very kind garden web member. Persimmon tree is also already in pot getto. It supposed to be small and self pollinating, Ichi Ki Kei Jiro. My sister has Jiro (slightly different variety) and it is a very pretty tree with lots of sweet persimmons in the fall. Looks absolutely wonderful, especially when leave fall off from the tree. I got it from ediblelandscaping. Hope my will look at least half as good.
Thank you very much everybody for your support.
Olga
carolfm
16 years ago
Olga, I am so sorry. Believe me, I know how sick you must feel.

Carol