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aimeekitty

Help evaluating what I need to do this fall

aimeekitty
12 years ago

Hey folks, I took a lot of photos this morning of my backyard. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed...

this year I've had very little time to garden and I've had a fair amount of plant failures, thankfully MOST of the roses have been fine.

This garden was started from scratch in Dec 2009, so I guess next year will be it's third year?

I really want to try and make some improvements this fall when it starts to cool down a bit.

I pretty much have NO IDEA what I should do because I'm still a beginning gardener.

This is partially about roses because I have like 80 of them, but I know some of you garden (or have gardened) in similar areas to mine and I was hoping you might point me in the right direction.

I try to ask my local nursery, but I'm feeling like I'm taking stabs into the dark as to why certain plants have died. I don't know if I amended too much, or not enough... or if I'm fertilizing enough. I'm just very confused. :(

Please see this post here for more explanation and photos. I'd be extremely grateful for any directions you can give me to get me started back down the right path for improving my garden for next year.

http://aimeesroses.wordpress.com/2011/08/23/state-of-the-garden/

Here is a link that might be useful: PHOTOS AND EXPLANATION

Comments (22)

  • zaphod42
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi! First off, I'm from Wisconsin (so way out of your area) and am only a five year gardening veteran, but am constantly looking at my garden trying to figure out what the heck I'm supposed to do with everything as well.

    Two ideas for you -

    1 - From the pictures, it looks like you're a bit thin on mulch. Not sure if you use it over in your neck of the woods, but a good thick layer might help cool roots and hold moisture.

    2 - Have you looked into dry prairie plants? We have an alkaline clay soil here so I try to be conscious of the clay busting plants that are often classified for prairie environments. Link below to good site.

    3 - Since your Walker's Low is doing well, you might like and have luck with Six Hills Giant Nepeta. I planted some this spring and immediately neglected it, but its has thrived without any special watering...at all.

    Hope some of this helps!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Plants in Prairie Communities

  • User
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Aimee
    you are trying to do an awful lot at once but I think your major issue is filling in with stuff until your permanent plantings expand into their full size. This is an infuriating stage in any garden but there are a couple of easy things you can do right now to get started - firstly, you need to find a list of annuals which will do well in your area - and I would be looking at Californian poppies (Escholzia), platystemon (cream cups), gaillardia (I grow this really hard - no food, little water- in pots - unlike growing in the ground, the leaves are sparse and the stems remain upright) callirhoe,sand verbena, limonium, south african daisies such as osteospermums, gazania, arctotis.... you get the picture. There are websites which will list native plants according to your postcode....or your local agricultural college will be helpful here. You can broadcast these annuals between existing plants - you will need to scrape some of the mulch away (or better still, turn it into the top layer of soil) and run a rake about to create a fine seed bed between plants. Water in and forget - they will germinate over the next couple of weeks, grow very slowly over winter into strong early plants in April/May. If you are likely to get a lot of weed seedlings coming up, sow the annuals in small rows so you can easily differentiate between those you want and those you don't - the lines will not be visible once the plants have grown.
    You could also do another bulb order for species tulips and some of the many South African/south american bulbs available (these grow in hot, dry regions and need baking over the summer so you would want to plant them along edges or in dedicated areas to avoid over watering when your perennials are blooming.
    Aimee, I am, of course, totally unfamiliar with your region and growing conditions but I would also guess that you are going through a periodic feeling of disatisfaction (sp?) which afflicts us all - hold your nerve - this is a very young garden still. However, you are allowed the indulgence of roses but you do need to try to grow plants which will easily grow in your conditions...so many choice US plants such as penstemons, echinacea, rudbeckia actually need a greater depth of soil and moisture than can be provided in what looks like a hot, hot garden.
    Another suggestion would be to concentrate on smaller areas, avoiding lots of gaps (I personally cannot abide this look so beloved by most gardeners in the US, of thick blankets of mulch - I see the point but I don't want to have to look at it) and getting a few plants which will act as ground coverers - and I have to come up with some of the obvious sedums for example. If you can split your garden into smaller areas and concentrate fully on what you can do without spreading yourself too thin, you may find it more fulfilling and satisfying.
    On the whole, from what I can see, your garden does look promising - it is still early days and you ought to allocate at least 5 years before you start to feel you are getting it to look 'completed' (not that it will ever reach that stage of 'done' but.....). I dunno if stipa gigantea grows well for you but this is a terrific accent plant - there are lots of plants all looking the same size at the moment) and you could definately incorporate a couple of architectural grasses such as the wonderful giant oats (stipa)
    Also, Aimee, there is a huge amount of local expertise out there - join a local club, check on the web - you have made a really good start but now it is time to start exploring gardening in some depth and variety (Yep, no more roses...resist, resist...you are going on an adventure)
    Sorry for rambling on at length - mainly, just carry on - the garden is growing and so is your knowledge and experience....just takes a little time.

  • mendocino_rose
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hydrangeas like some shade, humusey soil, and hate dry hot winds, which I bet you have there. I water them twice a week and give them a shower if there are hot winds.
    My penstemmons look pretty bad by the end of the season. I cut them back and they come back in the spring.
    I don't know why the crocosmias didn't bloom but I bet you could live without them.
    A friend of mine has a Crepe Myrtle that doesn't bloom. I wonder if they have to mature first.

    If your roses are happy, hurray!

  • hemlady
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I will only say that if your wisteria has died, you may have lucked out. Here in NC the Chinese wisteria is a terrible thug and escaped weed that strangles trees (even houses) all over the place. I have been trying to kill the evil stuff on my property for nearly 20 years. Still working on it! There are some native wisterias and they are fine, but if you don't have one of them, be careful!!

  • jacqueline9CA
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Aimee - You sound just like I did a couple of decades ago when i tried to plant dozens of new plants in several beds in our new garden. Here is just general advice that I learned the hard way:

    1) Plant more of the plants that have grown and thrived in your garden, and stop trying to grow/plant the ones that hate it!

    2) Look for volunteers - sometimes a perfectly nice plant will appear magically in your garden - these are usually very happy there. Let them bloom before you pull them out (not obvious weeds, of course) - see if you like them! If you do, plant more.

    3) Look around your neighborhood and see if you can see other plants that you like that are HAPPY in near-by gardens - then try them in yours.

    4) Mulch, mulch, mulch, and then mulch some more.

    5) Join a local garden club (local nurseries, unfortunately, are no longer a good source of advice) or rose society, etc., and meet people who garden in your conditions who can give you advice.

    Good Luck!

    Jackie

  • aimeekitty
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    this is PROBABLY what my zone is like:
    http://www.laspilitas.com/nature-of-california/communities/chaparral

    a lot of the plants they list as native, some say "no water after established" or require sharp drainage, something that my yard does not accommodate well.
    other plants in my garden need water, so it's hard to find something that is tough and will do well here, but will also tolerate some water.

    some penstemons ARE native to this area... and they're part of what I'm having trouble with....and like I said, if I get them in the right spot, they seem to do well... all summer, until they start to hate the winter rain? Another example is Margarita Penstemon, those are specifically listed as native to my area, but they were faster to die than the run-of-the-mill penstemons. I really think they got too much water or not enough drainage. But when I planted the normal penstemons., I'm wondering if they're getting good enough drainage. Maybe I could try again with more of a berm.

    ceanothus is native here, too... but they are HARD to grow in a garden. That was one of the first things to die when I planted it in '09.

    A lot of sages and salvias I think would do well, but I have very mixed results with them.

    I guess I'll just do more research and try more things.
    Basically, what I need are things that are relatively drought tolerant, but will tolerate garden water, tolerate clay, and don't require sharp drainage. And somehow magically are still pretty. :)

    ------- MORE WATER:
    I think you are right that I'm not watering long enough, more than one person has said that. I'll see if I can modify my watering schedule to do perhaps 2 separate days of 20 minutes each...? (instead of one?) and see if that improves? If that's the case, that might be why my cherry blossom tree died, it just wasnt getting enough water.

    I'd been hand watering the crocosmia more... maybe that was part of my mistake...? (ie they were getting too much water...?)

    ------- HELP WITH MULCH:
    Pardon my ignorance, but how exactly should I be mulching? With WHAT and HOW?

    ------- SULFUR:
    If I add some sulfur, how should I be applying it?

    ------- GARDEN CLUBS: where can I find a good one? I just have no idea where to start. I was thinking of seeing if my local community college had a gardening course that focused on this area? maybe that would help me feel less like I'm stabbing in the dark? I just feel rather idiotic right now even though some of my stuff has done fine.

    ------- YES, MORE HAPPY PLANTS and in MASS:
    I was definitely planning on trying to plant more things that have done WELL, and in mass.
    (don't worry I'm not planing more roses, I haven't bought any but one plant over the past year. I got a little mental at the beginning there) but thankfully the roses are doing well, otherwise I'd REALLY be discouraged!!
    Anyway... I'd like to get more of a drift/mass look going. That's what I was hoping to get with the crocosmia and the saliva, but nothing has grown enough or survived enough to get a drift going.

    Even lambsear are a little picky. Some of them do well and some outright die. It's like a spot one foot from another spot is different enough to make the plant die? It's very disheartening.

    But I'm having a lot of luck in multiple areas with certain plants like yarrow, so, for now, more of those happy plants so that I don't have so much bare ground would be great.

    ---------- PLANTS I NOTICED DID WELL IN NEIGHBORS GARDENS
    A lot of my direct neighbors actually had pretty poor yards (like they aren't even trying) but there were a few yards that were very beautiful, which gives me hope that I could have a respectable yard at some point. Most of these yards are probably about 5 years older than mine.

    Plants I noticed did well in other's yards:
    onions, lavender (some HUGE lavender plants around), rosemary, daylilies, various geraniums, ornamental grasses, kangaroo paw, dianthus, asparagus fern, hibiscus, heather, crape myrtle (just NOT MINE >:( ), flowering plum of some sort. and of course roses, but we already knew that.

    PHOTOS OF THEIR YARDS (not mine)
    {{gwi:303808}}

    {{gwi:303810}}

    {{gwi:303812}}

    Maybe I should think about some butterfly bushes?
    {{gwi:303516}}

    sea lavendar
    {{gwi:303814}}

    a few unknown plants that seemed to be doing fine
    {{gwi:303816}}

    {{gwi:303818}}

    {{gwi:303820}}

    {{gwi:303821}}

    {{gwi:303822}}

    {{gwi:303823}}

  • cath41
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One thing you might try for the plants that die in the Winter, presumably because they get too wet, is a gravel mulch. A number of plants, like lavender, do not like their crowns to remain wet. An inch or so of gravel mulch helps the drainage around the crowns.

    Cath

  • User
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    oh aimee, rambling on so much i forgot the most important thing - give yourself a giant pat on the back or get someone you love to administer a whopping hug - you have done brilliantly so far - keeping 80 roses alive in difficult conditions is no mean feat. I know you started with a terrifyingly empty space so relax and congratulate yourself fulsomely - the best is still to come and all. cheers, suzy

  • organicgardendreams
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Aimee, I am in San Diego inland and it sounds like that our growing conditions are similar. My soil is/was very bad and what really has helped to improve it is to mulch with compost. Ideally the layer of compost should be 3" high, which I don't get done in the whole yard, but at least in certain areas and it has really changed the original soil, breaking it up, helping to keep moisture and now there are even earthworms, which is a really good sign. The plants grow very well in the areas heavily mulched with compost. There is just one drawback: mulching with compost needs to be done repeatedly in my garden, I should do it at least twice a year, three times won't hurt, since the compost is breaking down quickly.

    I also grow Hydrangeas and I think that full sun is way too much sun for them in our climate. I have mine in a more or less shady location and they do well, but they need a lot of water, I would say even more than the roses to look nice.

    Wishing you good luck with your garden!

    Christina

    Here is a link that might be useful: Organic Garden Dreams

  • lavender_lass
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Aimee- Yes, try butterfly bushes! You have the right idea and mine don't mind a fair amount of water. I grow them behind the roses, to keep the deer out. My understanding is they practically grow wild in California, unlike my area, where they die back in the winter, yours should get fairly tall. I think of them as my late summer lilacs.

    Bee balm does very well in my garden, too. I have all kinds of colors and only the red ones (Jacob Cline) have turned into monsters! The pink, purple, light pink/white and burgandy ones are all behaving well and the purple ones, especially, are beautiful with the roses. They actually start out purple and slowly change into pink. The hummingbirds and bumblebees love them!

    I don't know if Hidcote lavender will grow in your warm climate...but if it does, it will take a LOT of water. I water all the time and the lavender loves it. They're in front of the roses (again, to keep the deer out) and I never cut them back or trim them at all.

    We have a shorter summer and they seem to be self cleaning and bloom all July, August and September. We usually have a hard frost in October, so no need to trim them. They turn a bit gray in the winter and then green again in late spring, followed by more flowers. The new flowers just push the old stems off. Trimming can kill lavender in our area (butterfly bushes, too) if not done exactly at the right time...due to our cold winters and late frosts. I don't think you'll have that problem, though :)

  • cath41
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Russian Sage, a large gray leaved, blue flowered perennial may work for you and its scented leaves should deter wildlife.

    Cath

  • landperson
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Aimeekitty, I just read your post and the thread and I have to second what Campanula said. You are doing a great job. My garden/yard project started 30 years ago and is still in the making. Time is something you cannot amend for. As impatient as we all get when we can visualize how gorgeous it is going to look when X, Y and Z grow up, and as annoying as it is to see the spaces between them looking barren, we really do have to .... wait a lot of the time.

    My approach in a lot of cases has been to plant stuff which fills in but can then be moved to removed when it gets crowded: lots of cannas for example, lots of montbretia, dahlias, Shasta daisies, even Buddleias. They grow fast and big and will fill up spaces until you later rip them out and give them away to someone else who is just starting out. I move all sorts of plants from the currently almost finished garden to the nowhere near full enough garden and just let them colonize there.

    And meanwhile, don't throw away a single thing that can be dug into the dirt: every scrap of food, every newspaper, every basket of shredded documents should be food for the future. Compost it and use it.

    Keep it up.
    You're doing fine.

    One last thought: even comfrey and mint which are a PITA have their place because they are great additions to compost. Every plant you pull up/out because it isn't where you want it can be composted and added back in to nurture your growing plants. I probably compost at least 1000 crocosmia montbretia every year, which makes them valuable way beyond the few that I let grow up as bright orange accents here and there.

  • aimeekitty
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks everyone! I'm definitely saving this thread to reread it for ideas. Thankyou!

    I thought you guys might find it amusing(?) that I found out that one of my problems was SEVERE lack of water, not just that I needed to water more than 20 min once a week... but...
    apparently TWO whole irrigation zones of my yard,... which includes half my back yard and almost my entire front yard were NOT WORKING and probably haven't been for several weeks and I wasn't aware because I was too busy. It's not the first time something like this has happened in the couple years we've had it, it's really irritating. We're going to replace the valves with something better and hopefully that will help.
    but, that much of my yard with NO water except the extra I'd been giving it by hand... during the HOTTEST part of summer! geez!
    I guess in a way it's a positive thing because it explains some of the plant failures.
    Like my non-blooming, non-growing Crape Myrtle... how long as it been without hardly any water at all? (I think it needed more than I had set for it anyway, but still!)

    I'm still going to use a lot of ya'lls advice though because I still think i have those problems even when the irrigation is working.

  • hosenemesis
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That happened to me last year.
    Renee

  • rosefolly
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I actually don't like butterfly bushes. They need to be cut back every year and I seem to be allergic to them. Also, I've seen them spread like weeds.

    Except for vulnerable new plantings, it is preferable to water roses deeply once a week, not moderately twice a week. That is good practice in a dry climate. Some roses can eventually get by on watering once every third week. There is a demonstration garden in my area that has 'Mutabilis' and 'Happenstance' on an every third week watering schedule. That is how often I water my established climbers and ramblers, too. The key word here is established. Probably this this kind of water diet suits all roses. IMO the plants need to be big and have deep root systems for this to work. My front yard garden is watered weekly by overhead spray for half an hour and deeply mulched with ground tree trimmings. If we get a run of hot days, I will drag out the hose and give supplemental water to new plantings. I grow roses with all sorts of companion plants there, many with average water requirements (peonies, lilies, clematis, and so forth). About a third of my garden is on this watering schedule, but the other two thirds are watered every third week. That part is fruit trees, established climbers and ramblers, and areas of mixed natives, succulents, and Mediterraneans.

    Like you I have a dry summer. Our yearly rainfall averages about 15 inches a year with a yearly variation of about 6-22 inches.

    When you are planning your companion plants, remember to group them by water requirements. For example, you can plant some lovely buckwheats, native sages, and drought-tolerant succulents together -- but don't place them with plants that want weekly water! Some of these plants can actually suffer from too much water, even rot.

    Rosefolly

  • strawchicago z5
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's good to do a soil test first. Rapidtest sold at HomeDepo in the spring is fine for a small yard, it's sold on-line pretty cheap. The County Extension will do a soil test for a higher price, like $20 - I can see it's worth it for a large farm, but not for a small garden.

    I won't do sulfur application unless there's obvious evidence of alkalinity such as: limestones, chlorosis, and iron deficiency in leaves. The safest way to acidify a soil is to apply peat moss, by mixing in 1" to 2" at the top 6" of soil. This will lower your pH by one point. See this website for more info:

    http://www.extension.org/pages/13046/raising-soil-ph-and-soil-acidification

    For mulch see this document from the U.S. government:
    http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn091.pdf

    The above site talks about the acidity of various tree bark mulches - pine bark is a good way to acidify the soil, but you have to add nitrogen, since decomposition of tree bark draws nitrogen out of soil.

    I look at pics of your neighbor's yard and see the same plants that do well in my alkaline clay soil - but it's good to do a soil test first. Alkaline clay soil tends to be deficient in nitrogen, and you will see tons of nitrogen-fixation plants, like clover, and those annoying stringly weeds on your lawn.

    If you don't need to fertilize your lawn and have zero weeds - the soil is pretty good, and there's no need to fix. Good luck with your garden.

  • aimeekitty
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I did a soil test when I first moved in, just a basic one, but it was definitely alkaline. Unfortunately I haven't found any place that sells pine bark mulch around here.

    We -do- need to fertilize the lawn and we have a fair amount of weeds but far less now that I weed them out before they send out seeds (but I still get a fair amount of blow over seeds I imagine from the bare lot next to us)

    The landscaping guy who is fixing our irrigation system said that longer than about 15 minutes with the sprinklers and I start getting standing water and run-off, so he recommended doing 15 min at one time and then again the next day. But then everyone online, etc, say, do it one time for an hour,...

  • lavender_lass
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Aimeekitty- You should have different zones for your lawn and garden areas. Sprinklers for the grass and a separate line for flowers. Many prefer drip irrigation, but try whatever does well in your area. Ask your landscaping guy about it.

  • aimeekitty
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The lawn is separate, but it would take a lot of heads to do the back yard... so I have separate sprinklers for the lawn and the back yard, if that makes sense.

  • rosefolly
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    He's making a good point for some soil types, especially for lawns, but you are not concerned with grass here. If you are getting standing water after 15 minutes, you can set your sprinklers up for 15 minutes, then an hour break to allow drainage, then another 15 minutes; repeat as needed to get a deep enough watering. I don't have this particular problem myself, probably due to deep mulch and lots of organic matter in my soil. You really want infrequent deep, deep watering and you will not get that with short watering sessions on separate days.

  • aimeekitty
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    yeah, I think my soil is so compacted right now that it's going to take a while for it to improve and be able to take water better, I'll try what you mentioned.

  • strawchicago z5
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I look at the pictures of your garden again - the soil look pretty dry. Adding lots of peat moss would hold the moisture and acidify the soil for the next 2 to 3 years.

    Here in Illinois with houses 15 years or less, the contractor put very little top soil (less than 10"), the bottom is filled with huge rocks and limestones.

    When I started my garden 12 years ago, the soil was pretty alkaline. I removed all the alkalizing limestones (at least 20 wheelbarrow of rocks), mixed in peatmoss and bagged compost, and started an acid-garden filled with rhododendrons & azaleas (they are doing great).

    I also planted 5 white pines. Even after removing all the limestones, the pines were yellowish at first. Then the pine needles fell, and the tree acidified itself. After a decade, they all are dark green. If you can get fresh pine needles, or fresh evergreen branches, they are the best source of mulch.

    I find that the more leaves and grass clippings I dump on the soil, the more moisture it holds. After digging a wide hole, I put in peat moss, and dig some more. The peat moss loosens the bottom of the hole, and I can fish out more stones. Peat moss works wonder in loosing up hardened clay, and is the best stuff to hold moisture.

    Rose Unlimited recommends this for any planting hole: 1/4 red clay, 1/4 peat moss, 1/4 compost, and 1/4 original soil.

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