Individual blooms are about 1" across and did have a moderate scent (keeping in mind it was 95 degrees and the middle of the afternoon at the time!) sort of like baby powder. I thought maybe it's a noisette, but I'm not very familiar with them and, it being either a very big one or a climber, all I can think of with my meager fund of knowledge is Aimee Vibert, which I've never seen in person that I can recall.... So, I would be grateful for help on the id -- it's a nice rose, I think.

Bigger cluster:

Faded flowers:

New leaves:

Prickles:

North side of fence:

South side of fence:

I'm going to donate it to the sale at the Heritage, because it doesn't open here. But here's what it looks like, if this is any help.

Jeri

Then there are the thorns. An entry in "The Old Rose Advisor" mentions sparse thorns for AV and you say the ones on yours are negligible, Camps. The thorns visible in the photos I took are not the worst I've seen, by a long shot, but I'm not sure they are "sparse" or "negligible". Again, I need to go make some observations of the plant as a whole on this specific point.

The HMF pages are something of a hash on this variety. It seems the compact bush form is something of an American anomaly with the "normal" (1828) form of AV being something of a climber but then there is a "scandens" form (1841), that is somehow different??? Vintage said the climber was reputedly a poor bloomer but that the clone they were selling as "scandens" was a good bloomer. However, the "normal" form is listed and rated as a prolific bloomer. I'm assuming, Camps, that yours is not the petite bush form, but more of a climber? Does it bloom well?

I can't say yet how good a repeater "my" plant is, since I've only recently ventured down into this neighborhood while going on walks as rehab after surgery last month. This property has certainly been an oasis to me, which is reached only after trudging along many blocks in the new development where Iceberg pruned with hedge trimmers is the main feature, with infrequent frissons created by relative bursts of color from "Flower Carpet" varieties.... It is a long fence, separating the house and other buildings in the center of the plot from a small vineyard. At various corners of the fence are either massive Fortunianas or Lady Banks and Cecile Brunners. Other kinds of climbers and shrubs along the fence have dried up, perhaps indicating that not much irrigation is going on in this terrible drought (the vineyard certainly looks that way) but the roses still look fine.

I have to add that if this isn't Aimee Vibert, I'm stumped as to other possibilities. On HMF, it is mentioned that AV is sometimes thought to be a sport of Felicite et Perpetue, but I'm familiar with that variety and this doesn't quite look -- or smell -- like that one.

I forget exactly where you are, (Livermore?) but a lot of rose folks will be at the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden on 9/27. I know some of the Sacramento City Cemetery folks are coming ... et al.

If you could bring cuttings, they could get a good look-over.

Do you know anything about the history of this property?

Jeri

I don't know anything about the history of the property, yet, but I'll dig around a bit. It's current address may not be the address it had in the past, due to new roads and reconfiguration of parcels because of the new development --- oh joy.

And I am so glad you are coming to SJ Catspa. Looking forward to meeting you

I wanted to put in in the same general area as where I have Cl Sdlm who is growing, albeit with some powdery looking leaves, but who is blooming well right now. I also have Simplicity over there who does well..but was unrecognizable as a rose in the main garden.

Blooms don't open here . . .

In cool, dank weather, they ball.
In hot, humid weather, they fry.

I know this rose opens perfectly in Sacramento.

Jeri

I went to visit it again today. My nose was in better order, I guess (and it wasn't so hot -- only in the 80s) and the scent is definitely like that of 'Little White Pet' or 'Felicite et Perpetue'.

I discovered that the property is that of the old Livermore Valley Cellars winery. Below is a photo I found of its original tasting room, which is one of the buildings that can be seen. LVC built a new tasting room further down the hill closer to its original address (before the new development road through the property) just a few years ago and then closed. I have yet to find any date of establishment for LVC, but the buildings on the property aren't ancient.

A few pictures from today. The amazing thing is that there are a bunch of buds just developing on it, so it will be blooming for some time yet. I've yet to find any bud with a pink tinge.

Old Livermore Valley Cellars tasting room:

But in the meantime, you might consider tracking THIS guy down:
http://www.sfgate.com/wine/article/Jim-Denham-the-Wine-Steward-Livermore-3797207.php

He might be able to put you in touch with former property owners. The question is, does the rose predate the winery?

I'll post leaves from our Aimee Vibert . . .

This seems quite different to me, from the leaves posted.

It occurred to me that the another rose I am familiar with that has a flower scent like this one is an Ayrshire I have, "Jekyll's Own Rambler", but that, of course, is a once-bloomer.

The blooms on this "Cellars" rose don't have the ribbony petals that "St. Leonards" seems to have, along with having more petals I think, Jannell, though the overall look is the same.

I'll definitely be moseying over to the Wine Steward to see Mr. Denham, if possible, Jeri, and yes, Kippy, it's a large, large plant.

I did find one cluster today with a bud with a small carmine spot on it (upper left), but as Aristotle said, "one swallow does not a summer make...". Note the ants -- they are all over these sweet flowers.

SEE BELOW:
This is a stipule from a Found rose, from the grave of a woman named Harriet Gill. It is argued whether this is/is not 'Laure Davoust.' See the resemblance?

You have LESS of this fringing, but this is no pure Multiflora.

It's REALLY NEAT!

OH YES! Anything you can bring with you to the Open Garden. There will be several people there who have more technical knowledge than I do.

And I think your "Cellar Rose" needs to be propagated.

I hope you can find that guy!

I will definitely work on talking to the owners. Fortunately I'm still on leave following surgery and have some time for this, for once. I'm hoping they know where it came from, or something about its history, not to mention that I will want to ask about taking pieces for cuttings.

About cuttings.

No one around? Go get them.
THEN ask!

This plant seems to be doing just fine but, if infected, probably not a good idea to bring material from the plant to SJHRG, I imagine? I did some reading on galls but am now more confused than when I started, since there seems to be benign variants of Agrobacterium tumefaciens as well as the pathogenic one that, on crowns of young plants, is the kiss of death. ??? Do they all make galls?

Well, anyway, Livermore Valley Cellars, was established in 1978 on a 33-acre existing vineyard bought by Chris Lagiss in the 1950s. He was a scientist at the national labs here; winemaking was sort of a hobby that sequed into a small business but the wines were well regarded. He died in 2008 at the age of 92 and the vineyard closed in 2010. Its re-opening is apparently awaiting things to be sorted out among the heirs. I made contact with one of them briefly, will talk more with her later, maybe find out some earlier history.

Final photo is a great one of the fringed stipules on a new cane. Yes, I would say those are fringed! It's still got some beautiful clusters on it, even after several days of temperatures over 100. Agree totally that it is a really different, very cool rose.

Fringed stipules:

It looks more like gall wasps. Check it out (see below) and run this by Baldo. If you don't know how to contact our resident "Bug Man," send me a private message.

And I have NO idea whether that is transmissible. Baldo would know. Maybe others here do.

Jeri

How Galls Get Started:

Bacterial galls are tumors caused by a critter called Agrobacterium.
Crown galls, those tumors which attack the root crown of the plant near the soil's surface, are produced by A. tumefaciens.

Cane and stem galls are produced by A. rubi.

Stem galls are the easiest to notice and remove. Prune away infected stems and canes and spray with A. radiobacter to prevent reinfection.

Note: A. radiobacter will not eliminate existing galls. It is a naturally occurring biological control bacterium - the natural counterpart - to A. tumefaciens and A. rubi.

Since it seems to be such a big plant and not all covered, maybe take some cuttings from the other side and try and root someplace that does not have a lot of susceptible plants? Also sounds like the cane gall is not as bad or the same and crown and root gall and can be trimmed and removed.

Baldo Villegas tells me he has seen this, long ago. It was tested, and it is his recollection that this is not agrobacterium tumefasciens. But he does not have details.

He recommends that it be tested.

Jeri

First I saw this:

then this:

and this.

Looking behind the hedge I saw this:

So here's the rose (or extremely similar, including scent) at a house that is less than 10 years old about 3 blocks away. It's planted as a ground cover, but a few long canes have escaped and become vertical in the Escallonia hedge and it was obvious, on examination, that the plants have been hacked back mercilessly to keep them as groundcover in a tight space and that their natural tendency seems to be climbing.

There were, of course, no tags on the plants that I could see. Searching the internet ("white groundcover climber cluster rose"), I came across a photo from "A rose garden in Sardinia" (morrisnoor) and that led to 'Alba Meillandecor' (1986), which is what I think it may be.

It looks like an old rose because it is essentially a hybrid of R. sempervirens x R. wichuraiana. The fringed stipules would be from R. wichuraiana, I guess, per a note on a photo by Patricia Routley. The scent would be R. sempervirens. It has been sold by Armstrong Garden Centers, one of which we have not far away and is also sold as 'Alba Meidiland', plants of which I think I have actually seen around here in nurseries.

The fence it sits on at the old Livermore Valley Cellars is not so old, within the last 10 years (very likely built when the development went in), so I can imagine this rose being planted when the fence was built (will ask). HMF describes it for beds or as a ground cover, but the photo of it climbing an oak tree in Italy shows it's a climber, not to mention its background.

I didn't see galls on the plants I saw today but, Jeri, looking back in Baldo's email about where he had seen galls like these (which are apparently rare) some years ago, he says that the name of the rose was "White Mellandina or something like that". (!!!!) That practically clinches it for me. What a convergence of clues all of a sudden.

As a number of people say in the comments section for Alba Meillandecor on HMF, it's a very nice rose.

Jeri

BTW, when I described the plant and the location to Baldo, he said he's pretty sure this is the same plant he saw 20 years ago!

Jeri

I'm confused about the galls, however. Wasp or bacteria? Fatal or just unattractive?

Thank you, Anne

It is his recollection that the state lab said it was not Agrobacterium Tumefasciens. That they did not, or could not, say WHAT it is.

It IS possible to submit a sample to the state for testing. Me, personally, if I didn't care to propagate the rose, I might not bother. But YMMV . . .

I do admit that NOT finding that out leaves the story incomplete.

Jeri

It's apparently more aesthetic than pathogenic I think, Anne. There are galls up to an inch across on some of the old dead wood of this rose along with galls on a minority of the living canes, but two roses it is tangled up with and growing through and around (Cecile Brunner and a Lady Banks of some sort) showed no sign of galls. This plant seems to be thriving -- lots of new, healthy-looking growth and buds -- looks better, in fact, that the sorry, hacked specimens in the mow-and-blow yard a few blocks away that have no galls!

It would be nice to have a name for the microbe (if science now has that capacity) but as I am neither owner or owner's agent, I would hesitate to send samples of it to the CDFA myself (the service is free, by the way, and I sometimes send specimens from my field work to their plant taxonomists to confirm and document noxious weed identifications). I do have a piece or two as cuttings and if they take it will be interesting to see if they develop galls also.

Jeri