Madame Isaac Pereire vs. Souvenir du President Lincoln

10 years ago

I've wanted to grow Madame Isaac Pereire but my first try ended up with fried flowers despite a vigorous bush (west facing wall in intense desert heat). My second try in partial shade was a plant that refused to grow after two years, then died over winter. I've read that Souvenir du President Lincoln is similar, and I've read that he is more heat tolerant. Have you had any experience comparing the two? Should I give MIP another try? Or give up?

Featured Answer

AquaEyes 7a NJ

10 years ago

last modified: 9 years ago

I can't say much about it, since it came as a band only this Spring, but another possible alternative in a similar mold could be 'Mme de Sevigne'. I got mine from Long Ago Roses after my 'Mme Isaac Pereire' bit the dust from freeze damage. I emailed Linda asking if she had an extra MIP available, and she recommended I try MdS. It might not be the original rose, but whatever it is, I like the looks of the (few) pics of it on HelpMeFind.

Another long-caned fragrant Bourbon in a similar "look" would be 'Deuil de Dr. Reynaud' (which also might not be the original, and might be the same rose being sold as 'Philemon Cochet'). I've never seen it (nor PC), but I was looking into them when I was trying to pick out a long-caned fragrant Bourbon.

I did buy 'Souvenir du President Lincoln' (or, at least, the rose being sold as such), but I gifted it to someone back in Buffalo. This was its second year in the ground. I'll have to find out how it did there.

There's also 'Souvenir de Victor Landeau' but I don't think it'll grow to be as big and "climber-ish" as the others mentioned. Vintage Gardens gives it a different growth habit, and the one I have here is doing more of a "sprawling, self-pegging" type of growth habit -- canes grow up, grow long, then bow down from their own weight, and bloom all along their length the following year. It's been very vigorous for me, coming as a band in April 2012. It finally went in the ground this Summer, and also bloomed for the first time this year. I have some pics of it below (taken with an iPhone, so pardon the less-than-stellar quality).

August 2012 (four months after receiving it as a band from Vintage Gardens). Those upright canes in the pics below later bowed down on their own:

April, 2013...just leafing out, one year after receiving it as a band. That one cane shooting straight up arched down like the others during Summer:

Late May, 2013...first wave of blooms weren't fully double, but were fully fragrant:

Mid-June, 2013...with more buds about to bloom (this wave was fully-double). Notice the cane that was straight-up is already leaning to the left:

Just to the left of center, in front of the stones and behind the log edging, taken August 31, 2013, it's finally planted. It's hard to see against the leaf litter mulch, but SdVL has canes arching out to the sides and forward. In fact, the cane draping over the log-edging is actually the cane that was originally growing straight-up in the earlier pics:

Another shot of SdVL, here just to the right of center (look for the white name tag with two blue patches from the cardboard under the mulch sticking up), and you can see the long canes arching out from it. The "white" flowers in the pic belong to 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' behind and to the left of it. There's one cane shooting up on SdVL now, but by next year, it will also (likely) arch down on its own:

:-)

~Christopher

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Comments (9)

zjw727
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Well, I can't be much help to you regarding Mme. Isaac Pereire, because my climate is SO completely different. However, the subject of S. du P.L. is interesting to me.Heirloom Roses has a BIG healthy bush of it growing in their garden, and every time I've seen it this summer (4-5 times) it has been in bloom, quite notable considering the poor re-bloom of many Bourbons. We had several bouts of rain this summer, and while nearby plants of La Reine and Mrs. John Laing etc. had badly balled blooms, President Lincoln's were mostly open. Impressive! The scent isn't as gloriously strong as MIP's, but it's lovely and sweet nonetheless. It's foliage also seemed to be on the clean side, for a Bourbon. I don't hear much about this rose...it doesn't seem to be one of the more widely available Bourbons- I wonder why?
windeaux
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
SdPL is a vastly under-appreciated rose. It's hardier than most Bourbons -- performs well in a fairly wide range of conditions. Everything zjw727 said comparing it to MIP is correct. I'll add that SdPL's growth habit is much more graceful than MIP's, and it doesn't have those killer prickles for which MIP is so infamous.

It's widely agreed that the dark pink rose now grown around the world as SdPL is not the original. All early sources describing SdPL remark on its very deep red color, shaded with an even deeper -- almost black -- red.
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rinaldo
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
"Mme. Dubost" is similar in growth to MIP and copes with heat much better--though my heat is humid and not dry.
zjw727
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Mme Dubost has the most wonderful scent! Also, the color is much more like MIP than President Lincoln.

Windeaux: a very good point about President Lincoln being a more graceful bush. It's less tall, and more rounded, as opposed to the gangly, sprawling canes of MIP. You know, Rogue Valley Roses has President Lincoln in stock, at a price of $13.95 for a band. I'm going to order it, because I'm now very curious to see how it will perform in my damp climate, especially as a comparison to MIP, which I already grow. How exciting! Hahaha : )

Zachary.
professorroush
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I grow both. Of the two, I think there is no difference in sun damage and MIP is slightly more vigorous than SdPL. MIP also has slightly stronger scent to my nose.

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Musings.
noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque)
Original Author
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thanks for the feedback! I’d love to see Souvenir du President Lincoln as a full bush. I love the color of Mme Isaac Pereire so a lighter color would not be as exciting, and I love the fragrance of MIP so that might be disappointing. Still, if SdPL is easier to grow and more heat tolerant, a rose in the hand...

Madame de Sevigne looks very similar to MIP. Deuil de Dr. Reynaud looks gorgeous. Souvenir de Victor Landeau looks to be cut of the same cloth as the others, as does Madame Dubost. All are beautiful. In my garden, MIP formed a rounded bush about 5 feet high after 3 years, no gangly canes which is unfortunate because I love the gangly canes. What to choose? Alas, but I only have room for one! I am suspecting that none is more heat tolerant than the others.
luxrosa
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
We grew M.I.P. and Mme. Ernst Calvat, its' pink sport and had to get rid of both. Though they were seductive and beautiful and very fragrant they defoliated from b.s. and rust, and we have a no-spray garden.

I'm tempted to try another pink Bourbon.

Lux
lou_texas
10 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Can't help you with Souvenir du President Lincoln. MIP grows well for me in sun, but it isn't on a wall in intense desert heat. I'm sorry you lost yours. I don't know if I'd try a third or not. Depends on how determined you are to have those luscious fragrant blooms - which don't repeat too often (at least for me). I've gotten rid of some roses that weren't happy and some I'm trying for the third time - in a different location. Location might be the key to success for you. But life's too short to take much aggravation from an area of your life that should be providing pleasure.

I don't think I've been helpful, but I sympathize. Good luck if you try again with MIP. Lou