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| Hello everyone! Its planting and obsessing time again. I finally worked up the courage to eliminate most of my front lawn. Thank God I have no HOA. I have 66 roses on order. They will be interspersed with several perennials. There are several colours. Mainly pinks (my favourite), but also reds, apricots, lavenders, yellows and whites. The roses are a mix of moderns, antiques, floribundas and hybrid teas. All of the 66 roses will not be placed in this bed only some of them. They will be planted with respect for their heights and mature size. The bed is huge. I am not good at averaging but it is at least 40 ft X 20 ft and will be square. THE QUESTION IS: SHOULD I PLANT BASED ON SIMILAR COLURS GROUPED TOGETHER INTERSPERSED WITH THE WHITES AND PERENNIALS? Because the bed is so huge I don't want to shock my neighbors with a riot of colour since I am already rocking their world with the lawn removal. All suggestions will be appreciated. I start planting in a couple weeks. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Too late! You've already shocked them by removing the obligatory lawn. Congratulations! Whether you should attempt to group colors or not is a personal taste choice. If you like the more formal, planned look, then group them. That CAN be a bit boring, though, particularly when different varieties resemble each other too closely. If you want to study the differences between closely resembling types, then planting them together is easier. But, there are many times you won't see a whole lot of difference between many of them and that might lead to less interest sometimes. A "riot of color" is what you're going to have, anyway with all those roses. It's completely your taste how you arrange the colors. I would suggest keeping plant sizes and shapes in mind as a possibly more convenient method to use. Some are likely going to be tall while others will be much shorter. Keeping the taller to the rear of the beds with shorter, narrower ones to the forefront will make your maintenance easier and a whole lot more fun. You'll need to figure out which is the main view side. If you want the neighbors and those walking/driving down the street to have the nicest view, then the taller ones go toward the house and the shorter ones toward the street. Personally, I'm more of the opinion that it's my yard, my water and my labor, so I want the favored view to be from my windows and door, so I would plant the taller things toward the street with the shorter ones facing my view points. Those traveling down the street are going to see color, but will seldom be able to just stop and study it, where you are frequently going to study the view. But, it's all up to you, what looks better to you and pleases you more. Either way, you'll love it! Enjoy! Kim |
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| What a wonderful project this is! You must be so excited. You are going to have fun with this. BTW - I will agree with something you said. Thank goodness I don't have an HOA either. That would be my first criterion if ever shopping for a new home. The second one would be how high the Walk Score is, and the third, how close is the public library? My personal approach would be to start by separating the roses into two groups. The first group is the yellow-based (warm) colors such as apricots, yellows, coral pinks, and scarlet (hot) reds. The second group is the blue-based colors such as whites, lavenders, cool pinks, and crimson (cool) reds. If you had two beds, I would suggest putting the cool colors in one and the warm colors in the other. Since you have one large bed, I recommend graduating the colors starting with cool, moving to neutrals as a resting place for the eye in the middle, and ending up with warm as you progress, the kind of approach garden designer Gertrude Jeckyll might have used in her day. Use a generous amount of green to unite the colors of the roses. It could be a narrow dwarf conifer repeated several times in the bed or an evergreen border framing the edge to tie it all together. This will also give structure in contrast with the forms of the roses. I would also consider using a lot of perennials in a single color family to provide unity - say, lots of gray green or lots of soft blue or lots of white. You could even keep repeating the same perennial, or same few perennials throughout. Do avoid mixing cream with white, though. The cream can sometimes end up looking dirty next to the clear bright white. If, after you have placed all the roses you find that one or two just don't look happy with the rest, you can always dig them up and move them at a later time. They could become features in a new location. The young roses won't become unmanageable for transplanting purposes for some time. And do have fun! Rosefolly |
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| I see that Kim and I have given you quite different responses. I will agree with two things he said. First of all, it is your garden. You should please yourself. Second, you do want to pay attention to the ultimate sizes of the various roses. Those of us who live in warm climates generally find that roses grow bigger for us than the stated size - sometimes a LOT bigger. If you space your roses closely together, you are going to end up moving a lot of them in a couple of years. This you will not enjoy. This first year your garden ought to look empty. If it looks as though you have planted enough roses, you have actually planted too many. If that bothers you and you want it to look fuller, plant lots annuals to fill in the empty spaces. Rosefolly |
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| Of course we did, Rosefolly! Are you really surprised? It is a personal taste, personal choice decision and the "correct" answer is the one which pleases shopshops best. So, we are actually in almost complete agreement. We just provided the flip sides of the same coin for her (his?) consideration. Kim |
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| Oh Rosefolly and Roseseek ! You have both made my day! Your advice has been so easy to understand and visualize. Now I feel more comfortable mixing the colours, but graduating from warm to cool. I will anchor each corner of the bed with some evergreen yaupon hollies which form little meatball shapes and thrive here in Texas. I will now group the perennials en-masse by colours. Using salvias, rudbeckias and dusty miller. Thanks guys. I am excited all over again. You"re both right . Within reason a yard should be enjoyed by the owner without worry about what others think. |
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- Posted by mad_gallica Z5 Eastern NY (My Page) on Thu, Sep 4, 14 at 13:56
| From a different viewpoint, how confident are you that these particular roses will thrive? Around here, a fairly common problem with color-coded beds is replacements. The empty spaces are in the red bed and the lavender bed, but the roses on the buy list are white and yellow. If the roses aren't obviously in some sort of order, it is a lot less obvious that some spots are on their third or fourth plant. |
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| LOL! Although you both gave differing advice I was able to pull a lot from both opinions. It's almost like the light bulb came on after I read both posts. You both should do a rose Q and A in a magazine. By the way I'm a rose loving gal. Much thanks again. Ill be posting next year in gratitude to you both and to all who will post in future. BY THE WAY IT WOULD BE NICE IF SOMEONE WITH A FRONT YARD FULL OF ROSES AND PERENNIALS WOULD POST SOME PICS. |
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| Good point! I can see where that might result in multiples of several varieties when they turn out to be the more successful. Wow, shopshops, you're getting great advice here this morning, even if we do say so ourselves! LOL! Enjoy! Kim |
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| Mad-Gallica.........wonderful. Duh!! I never considered replacements. Texas rose fans can get a little cocky because soo many varieties tend to do well here. Kim you're spot on about the quality of advice on here. I could not afford to pay for this advice otherwise. |
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| Shopshops I don't have any advice except have fun! How wonderful to have a blank slate to plant roses in. I'm terrible at putting colors together but souunds like you got some great advice. I would have a anxiety attack trying to figure out what to do with 66 rose LOL. I can't wait to see pics in the spring! |
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| There are some gorgeous photos on HMF of the roses in full bloom at Eurodesert. From what I saw there, the roses seemed to be planted mostly by class, and within the class, alphabetically. Melissa |
Here is a link that might be useful: Eurodesert--Cliff Orent's garden
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| I never group colors. I usually work to not put two of the same color next to each other. I just think it makes each rose stand out on it's own then. My feeling is if you are going to group all of one color together then you might as well just buy all the same rose. |
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| Shops, you requested pictures so I hunted up a few (or not so few) for you. These are taken over a period of years during which the ficus tree was chopped down and roses and other plants came and went. Since I live in the hills with native scenery all around me I didn't want a riot of colors to stand out, but rather wanted the garden to blend with the background. I do have some bright seasonal accents such as daylilies and irises, but have kept the roses themselves to a palette of white, pale pink, darker pinks, lavenders and purples. I personally dislike red and orange so those were never an option, but do have a few apricot colored roses on the side in an area I call Tea Row, and since these are all large bushes with lots of green leaves the pinks and apricots blend in well. rosefolly has given you superb advice and I have nothing to add. Just keep in mind that what you envision in your mind at first may not look the same once it's planted and don't hesitate to move, remove or otherwise deal with a picture that doesn't work for you. I don't think there's one of us who's gotten everything right the first time around or hasn't had to make adjustments as the plants matured and grew whichever way they wanted to. My only hesitation would be your choosing to plant this time of the year when it's hot and small plants especially will be stressed by the heat. The optimal time for me in my hot and dry garden is autumn, after it's begun to cool off. That way the plants have the winter and spring to grow before the heat of the next summer. However, you live in a different zone and that might change everything. Good luck! Ingrid
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| Everytime I see pics of your garden Ingrid I am in awe of its beauty. Thank you for sharing:). |
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- Posted by ArbutusOmnedo 10/24 (My Page) on Thu, Sep 4, 14 at 17:33
| This sort of question comes up quite often and it really boils down to personal taste as Kim says. Like many of the posters I would mix different colors together to avoid too homogenous of a look. Unless you were designing a white or other strictly themed garden color palette, I would spend some time drawing out a plan to play around with placement. That is actually a great observation, mad_gallica. I think a lot of rose growers (and gardeners on the whole) are drawn towards a particular color or spectrum (pastels, vibrant colors, pink-mauve-white, et cet) and will end up either buying or considering purchasing disproportionately more of that color/group. If a bed "depends" upon a certain color, make sure you can find a similar, reliable replacement if your preferred pick doesn't pan out. Have fun! I think you'll get a lot more joy out of a perennial/rose bed than lawn. Jay |
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| THE QUESTION IS: SHOULD I PLANT BASED ON SIMILAR COLURS GROUPED TOGETHER INTERSPERSED WITH THE WHITES AND PERENNIALS? yes. I'd skip the interspersing with whites, though. Put the whites together as well and graduate from one color to another--white to yellow (via ivory), yellow to orange (via peach), and so forth. Keep cool pinks (blueish cast) well away from warm pinks (orange cast). |
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| I agree with all of the above about it being a matter of personal taste, etc., etc. Something you might want to do is play around with photos of the roses to get some idea of how their colors will combine before you plant them. You could do this pretty easily with a Pinterest board which would be less messy than cutting out photos from rose catalogs and shuffling them around, but the concept is the same. Good luck with whatever approach you take, and congrats on getting rid of so much lawn. Virginia |
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| Just wanted to say wahoo for you !! You are going to have a traffic stopping yard . How awesome for you ! Cannot wait to see pics , even of your dirt yard ! lol I myself am gettin started on a brand new garden and it is exciting ! Can't stop buying roses . |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Thu, Sep 4, 14 at 20:02
| What a fun project. I wish I could share a friends photos she just had done with a local to her photographer and her girls. The background is an incredible wall of green rose leaves peppered with roses that are all different colors. They are in the Fresno area and this gal uses a lot of the ranches/orchards for her photo business. Guessing this is some ones privacy screen for a very old farm house. It must have been a row of ramblers or something similar. I would love to take photos just of that wall of rose. I find that I get a lot of inspiration from rose books that I have picked up at book sales and rummage sales. Just the other day I found just what I could see in my mind in a Peter Beales book, Visions of Roses (if you are going to San Jose later this month and want a copy let me know.....seems I liked that book so much I have two) I totally agree about knowing the color tones when you place them....the hard part is depending on the weather some times the tones vary from what you expected. And some times you get surprise oops roses from what you ordered. General heights and sizes are good to know, but you might want to double check on how they do in your area. And we are going to need photos and a list of what you are getting. |
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| The best laid plans...Here's the rub in all of this. After your initial 60 roses, you will find a few more you can't live without. About #67, you will run out of planned space and it will have to go just where there is space. Then there will be a few who get bigger than you planned on and a couple who die and by now you've found even more you want and they can go where the dead ones were except the color doesn't fit but oh well. Ditto with perennials: a few live too flamboyantly, others die, leaving space for the wonderful one that you just saw but doesn't really fit it but where else can you put it. And so it goes. Eventually, you just have roses and perennials all over the place. |
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| Wow guys. I thank you all for your suggestions. I am also excited with this lawn elimination project. With severe drought everywhere in North Texas and around the country it seems wrong to pump resources into a lawn. Roses and perennials do so much more for the environment. I am so pleased with all of this great, free advice I have received on this forum. I am able to learn something new from each post. This is my 6th year rose gardening and I enjoy learning new tips and tricks. Will definitely be posting pics. Thank you my rose buddies. Rose people are the best! Here is most of the list. Some to be received not listing on here The Antique Rose Emporium From JP Roses From Rose Petals Nursery (Florida) Devoniensis shrub form From Angel Gardens (Florida) From Rogue Valley Roses From Heirloom Roses Chicago Peace Wild Edric Heirloom.. replacement for Rose that died Sophie's Rose X2 to replace one that died David Austin |
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| Thank you boncrow. I wish the garden looked this good now, but there's actually a chance we may get some rain this weekend courtesy of Hurricane Norbert. The roses would love that. |
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| I destroyed all my grass a number of years ago except for the dogs' yard. In the front I have two white crape myrtles -- Acoma. One is in the center of the yard, and one is to the right near the garage. I have a small area outside the front of my home with about 5 roses. That is where the hoses are, and a few statues. After a path, I have the largest bed with the crape myrtle in the center, and roses in a circle around the crape myrtle. The roses form a circle around the outside of this bed, and in the center I have 2 or 3 large stones, and different annuals and perennials. Towards the front I have 3 SDLM, St. Anne, and a total of 14 roses. I have whatever color I want. The color does not seem to make a difference, but my roses are all on the smaller side except I have two Cramoisi Superieurs - one on either side of the path to blur the view of the house, and draw attention to the garden. I do not have my other large roses in the front, and I do not have modern roses or David Austin roses. Along the side of the large bed, I have a bed of 4 roses (Puerto Rico, Papa Gontier, Blush Noisette, Odee Pink), In the front beside the mailbox, I have 3 SDLM (across the sidewalk from the other 3 SDLM.) In another corner I have 2 Ducher roses. I have a similar structure at the side and back of the house. The larger roses are in their own beds, and I have a few beds of roses that are alike. It is important to give yourself and others a path, and room for water. I am trying soaker hoses this year, but have not put mulch over them. I will remove them soon for winter, and next year will mulch them so they cannot be seen. Little by little I have put down paving stones in the paths. There is no grass. Modern roses tend to get black spot here, and I do not grow them. David Austin is a "dramatic rose" in my opinion for my yard, and takes away from the older roses. Even though I have reds, (Cramoisi Superieur, Square Dancer, Splendora, Archduke Charles) they sort of fit in, and contribute the garden effect that I like. I do not have bright yellow. In the spring I cut my crape myrtles down to about 4 feet. That means that they are never as huge as they could be, and I think they blend in with the other roses. I hope this helps a little. About David Austin and so many modern roses: they are beautiful, but so many are larger than my older roses. I used to grow Veterans Honor, and many beautiful roses, but I wanted the texture to be that of older ones, and feel more comfortable with what I have. If I were to put a Veterans Honor into this mixture, it would have its own drama. I hope this is helpful - it sure is long. Sammy |
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| Thanks Sammy. Boncrow, Hoovb, Ingrid , rose folly, Roseseek. And all who chimed in. I especially wish to thank Ingrid for sharing her beautiful garden pictures with me. Ingrid. I wish I had as much room as you do. No lawn would be safe in my path! Ingrid Your pictures have inspired me to dig out some day lilies from my backyard and add them to the garden bed. Many thanks Desiree |
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| Congrats on pulling out your lawn. I did so a few years ago and haven't looked back. I even have a homeowner's association and did it! Now the city and others are asking me about drought tolerant landscaping, etc. City has me up for an award for my front yard. Don't think I will get it as anything that could go wrong when they came to inspect it, went wrong! I have a teeny, tiny postage stamp yard. You wanted pictures, I will post some. Here is the yard when I first purchased the house Here is the latest after My crape myrtles look at bit riotous here due to the heavy blooms. Here is another angle. Nothing from the former front yard (other than the hardscaping) still exists.
This is the view from my driveway looking towards my neighbor's house. My crape myrtles don't look so crazy on this one. Here is the walkway from the front door of the house looking towards the crape myrtles. This is where my roses are in the front along with iris, day lillies, penstamons, laurentus (I think that is how you spell it and I am totally in love with this plant), pink muhly (another plant I absolutely love) sage, etc. So go for it! I live vicariously through all of you with big yards, so post away. I love it! Back before (when I bought the house) Back after (nothing has remained the same in the back either--thank goodness!)
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| Mustbnuts, you created an oasis from a desert! Simply gorgeous. |
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| This is a dangerous thread. Between Ingrid's and mustbnuts pictures and sammy's description, a lot of lawns may be endangered. You make it look so tempting... |
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| I love all the pictures and gardens! So many beautiful and creative ideas! I do think though that catrose hit the nail on the head. We plot and plan and stew and fret and in the end we're just putting the roses and perennials we fall in love with in what ever spot we have available at the time of purchase. That's not to say that later on we don't move everything around but... |
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| "This is a dangerous thread. Between Ingrid's and mustbnuts pictures and sammy's description, a lot of lawns may be endangered." Thank Heavens! Imagine how much water would be saved and how much fewer fertilizer pollution would be spewed if "turf" and "lawns" were eliminated. No joke. Kim |
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| mustbnuts, your additional pictures are the greatest advertisement for having a "garden" instead of a lawn. You've made a wonderful place out of your backyard too; that is so impressive. It boggles the mind how much healthier the planet would be if everyone did what you have done. Ingrid |
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| Mustbnuts, can I say ...........swoon! How beautiful! Thank you for sharing your garden pics. Your roses and other plants are such an improvement on a water guzzling Lawn. I am so excited to get started. |
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- Posted by muscovyduckling Melbourne, Australia (My Page) on Mon, Sep 8, 14 at 2:47
| You guys make me want to rip out my lawns! I won't, because mine stay green without irrigation or fertilising, plus the birds love eating the worms and insects that live there, and the bees like the flowering weeds that grow in it... But gee whiz, these gardens are great! |
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| Thank you all for the nice words. I look forward to seeing and hearing about your gardens every day. |
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- Posted by muscovyduckling Melbourne, Australia (My Page) on Tue, Sep 9, 14 at 6:19
| Mustbnuts - on a side note, what is that pretty pale peachy-pink DA-looking rose under your wind chime? It's lovely! |
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| What fabulous pictures! I think one should group things by colors -- sort of -- that is, not in too rigid, or obvious a way. I myself have found that colors I that used to think "clashed", I now no longer do. It is more a matter of choosing what will enhance neighboring colors, even if it means some "clashing" colors that will liven things up. Think of the backdrop of other things you will have in your garden, as well, since the roses won't be at their best all the time. |
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| Muscovyduckling, the rose under the windchime is a David Austin rose, Ambridge Rose. It is a little workhorse. I am going to replace it this winter. It is not on its own root and it is reverting back to rootstock. I have had that rose for about 15 plus years. The first five years it lived in a large pot and the last 10 have been in the ground. It really is a nice little rose with an old fashioned rose scent (I think it smells like sugar free cherry bubblegum). All in all, it is a very nice rose but I don't think I am going to plant it again. However, I do recommend it as a nice David Austin. |
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- Posted by melissa_thefarm NItaly (My Page) on Wed, Sep 10, 14 at 5:59
| I'm coming in late to this discussion to mention something that I haven't seen said yet: it is that combining roses of similar colors doesn't mean that those colors will go together. There are all different kinds of reds, for example, which can clash horribly; diverse yellows; a surprising range of whites. My personal preference is to combine different colors in ways that look good to me--I won't go into the vast question of what looks good to me--while you might want to group colors together. And that would be fine, but don't fall into the trap of thinking that there's safety in sameness. Good luck! Melissa |
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| Thanks Melissa, I see the wisdom in this counsel. I start planting in a week or so. I will be spending the time in between. Planning different colour combinations |
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- Posted by prettypetals GA 7 (My Page) on Thu, Sep 11, 14 at 22:03
| I agree to just have fun no matter what you choose to do. I have to say I jumped in and went rose crazy at first. Now that I've been growing them for 6-7 years I've realized what I love the most and am changing some that I really don't care for for ones I love. They grow huge here too so all the advice to give them plenty of room is true especially if you like to stroll around in your beds to see each and every plant from every side like I do. Lol. I can't wait to see your pictures. Take care and have fun!! Judy |
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| Thanks for the great advice Judy. I enjoyed seeing your flowers in vases. That post where you stuck your face in the flowers. Will definitely post pics Shops. |
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