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| I have long been a supporter of own root roses. Most of the time it makes sense to me, except in the case of roses that are too feeble to make it on their own. I don't grow many of those. However, I am weary of roses that spread enthusiastically by underground suckers in the attempt to take over large patches of real estate. My two worst offenders are the rugosa 'Dart's Dash' and the gallica 'La Belle Sultane'. I find myself pruning out suckers by the dozens, maybe even hundreds, every few weeks. It is a tedious chore, and one that is completely avoidable. Now that Pickering is once again available to gardeners in the USA, I have taken advantage of the opportunity to order grafted versions of these two from them, along with 'Maiden's Blush', 'Tuscany Superb', and 'Rosa Mundi'. TS is only suckering lightly so far but it is young and I suspect it will get worse over time. RM reverted to the Apothecary Rose and I wanted to replace it anyway. I keep saying that I will give up on the OB-OGRs. There are other roses better suited to my climate. (I grow them, too.) But I really do like the gallicas, albas, and damasks. Fingers crossed! Rosefolly |
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| That is one definite advantage to a budded versus own root plant, Rosefolly. If you have sufficient real estate and like them colonizing themselves, that's great. If not, either eliminating the offenders from your garden or obtaining them budded are the two recourses. I don't blame you one bit. Been there, done both. Kim |
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- Posted by mendocino_rose z8 N CA. (My Page) on Sun, Sep 22, 13 at 17:35
| I absolutely hate suckers. They are a huge headache in my garden. I took one Gallica out(I thought) but the suckers keep emerging. At this point i don't even trust a grafted plant. it's always possible they could take root. |
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| I agree -- but for me, the Multiflora rootstock was itself problematical, in my extremely-alkaline conditions. And ironically, the worst-suckering rose I have EVER grown was an Austin on Multiflora. That multiflora roostock suckered 6-8 feet in every direction. Jeri |
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- Posted by mad_gallica Z5 Eastern NY (My Page) on Sun, Sep 22, 13 at 18:21
| I don't think Pickering puts its gallicas on multiflora. Some things are budded on Laxa. I wouldn't mind having a list of such things, but that seems hard to get. |
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| Pickering's FAQ sheet states, "We bud the majority of our roses on R. multiflora and the gallicas, damasks and some odds & ends on R. laxa." As long as they do what they say they do, that should give you the information you desire. Kim |
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- Posted by cemeteryrose USDA 9/Sunset 14 (My Page) on Sun, Sep 22, 13 at 21:01
| We had two Therese Bugnet plantings in the cemetery. One was an extremely mannerly, gorgeous fountain-shaped plant. The other was thuggish and suckered all over the plot in which it was planted, obscuring the monuments and elbowing out the other rose that was planted there. The budded one finally began to sucker, too, and the lovely shape is gone. In general, I prefer own-root roses, but sometimes budding is the way to go. Also, some roses just need the extra oomph. We have a fabulous Kaiserin Auguste Viktoria that Burling budded onto Pink Cloud - and a very nice Blanche de Belgique that I believe in on Manetti - both of them are far nicer than they'd be own-root. Anita |
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| I don't think I've ever had aything on R. Laxa, but Dr. Huey is another rootstock that suckers, so I'm not sure how much grafting would help. And I'm very careful now with anything with multiflora because of RRD. I've no hard science to prove anything, but when RRD swept thru my garden three years ago, it took out everything with multiflora in its genes. Most of my gallicas, rugosas, and the Musk rose survived (the rest were hit or miss). I don't know how RRD would affect rootstock, or the grafts upon it. I'm lucky I have space for suckering varieties. I have to say the height of Belle Sultane threw me. She remained a modest 3-4 feet for years, with a few mannerly suckers. This year, we have had unending rain and she is suddenly nearly 7' tall and wildly suckering. I pot up a lot of my suckers and give them away or contribute them to local garden club plant sales. |
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| Having dealt with dozens of roses which sucker own root and literally thousands of all types on Huey, I'll take any suckering type ON Huey versus own root any day. Here, Huey mostly suckers where irrigation is too shallow, bringing its roots too close to the surface where any disturbance encourages them to grow. Often, it's been "cultivating" the area around the roses, breaking the feeders and larger roots coming up for air and water. But, that type of mis cultivation can and does cause any stock to sucker. Kim |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Sun, Sep 22, 13 at 23:08
| I have a couple of transplanted Huey roses I have to watch for Huey. And I notice Reine des Violettes has several new "babies". I am keeping an eye on a fat cane on James Galoway, it is either a new fat cane or Doc H popping up. |
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- Posted by kittymoonbeam 10 (My Page) on Sun, Sep 22, 13 at 23:46
| I would say don't give up on growing a rose you really love if you can try it grafted. Digging a zillion suckers out is hard and eats all the joy out of rose growing. Maybe if you have them in cages and Steve's deer are eating everything beyond the wire...otherwise it's a pain and gets old fast. I hope your grafted plant will behave. And Kim is right about cutting any roots. |
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- Posted by cemeteryrose USDA 9/Sunset 14 (My Page) on Mon, Sep 23, 13 at 1:16
| We have successfully used bamboo barrier in the cemetery to keep suckering plants within bounds. 24" wide PVC sheets. I had strong young people dig them into place thanks to Americorps. They left the barrier above the soil about 3". We have raised burial plots that are similar to raised beds - I've divided the plots with the barrier. I deal with Banshee and I don't think there's any rose that suckers more aggressively, and the barrier works. For most roses, I believe that 18" barrier would probably work, based on how well the cemetery plot surrounds keep the suckering plants in place. Anita |
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- Posted by mad_gallica Z5 Eastern NY (My Page) on Mon, Sep 23, 13 at 6:48
| Kim, it's the 'odds and ends' that I need to know about. I think they do spinossisimas on laxa, and quite possibly Kordesii Explorers. Anything else I should be interested in? I don't know. |
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- Posted by blackgavotte 5aNS (My Page) on Mon, Sep 23, 13 at 9:31
| Oh Lordy, I'm glad I saw this post... I have moved to the maritimes, with the rocks, fog, dew and wind, not to mention a very wet spring and this summer... am in the process of beginning to order roses that will do best here, most likely rugosas... on the top of my list was to be Dart's Dash, not I'm not sure about own root choices.. sure don't need a part time new job of pulling out suckers ! Here's the short list of what I was considering ordering, on their own roots, from Cornhill .... Dart's Dash, Parfum de l'hay, Marie Bugnet, Polareis, Wasagaming and possibly Queen of Denmark... does anyone know if any or all of these are really bad for suckers other than Dart's Dash? Will watch this post for a few days before ordering... all help is appreciated, don't want to waste money again ! |
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| I actually like roses that sucker. I order from Pickering because I like THEM and want to show my support. But I was hesitant to try their roses after hearing that multiflora rootstock doesn't like alkaline conditions. However, I have had absolutely no issues with any of my roses on multiflora, even with both alkaline soil and water. So there must be something else I have or don't have/do that is different than say Jeri has/does that accounts for why roses on multiflora (or with its genes) do so well for me. Pickering hasn't updated their website about using laxa as a rootstock. I called last year to ask which of the roses I bought from them were on laxa and which on multiflora. The lady who I spoke with said none of the roses I bought from them were on laxa as they hadn't grafted anything on it (for I forget how many years she said). I expected that some were on laxa (and thought maybe that was why they were so happy in my garden), including the gallica Aimable Rouge, the damasks Duc de Cambridge and Pickering Four Seasons, the spinosissma William's Double Yellow, and the rugosas Wild Edric and Polareis. Not only are they not chlorotic but also Wild Edric (not even fed) and William's Double Yellow have particularly deep green foliage. Melissa |
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| Melissa -- Salinity, and possibly a witches brew of other minerals may be additional factors -- but it is a certainty that roses ON Multiflora, and roses with a multiflora background, all suffer from recurrent bouts of chlorosis here. We are ancient seabed, and the aquifers that feed the wells from which our water is pumped, do pick up salts. In fact, desal plants have been added in this area, to make heretofore non-potable water, potable. Since that problem holds true for those roses, almost without exception -- and does NOT trouble other roses -- I now avoid them. Nor do I recommend them for others in my area. It's not JUST the water, of course. The land up here is: So, you see, our water is alkaline with excess salinity, and our soils are ditto. I doubt if you have that ancient seabed problem. Jeri |
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| I like grafted roses from Pickering a lot. Many of my roses do better with the vigor from the rootstock. Multiflora rose does extremely well in my clay soil here. I've never had one sucker on me, except those that are planted deep and sucker on their own roots. |
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| Most of my successful roses are growing on their own roots and the only one that has suckered extensively is Seven Sisters. Fortunately I have lots of room and a very informal "garden plan" so it matters not at all. Budded roses sold locally are mostly grown on Dr Huey which does very well in my slightly acid soil - even if the budded rose itself does not thrive. |
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| Most of my successful roses are growing on their own roots and the only one that has suckered extensively is Seven Sisters. Fortunately I have lots of room and a very informal "garden plan" so it matters not at all. Budded roses sold locally are mostly grown on Dr Huey which does very well in my slightly acid soil - even if the budded rose itself does not thrive. |
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| Ooops! Sorry, I didn't mean to repeat myself. |
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