I'd never heard of it, but if it still exists, I want one!

Jeri

Me too! (Like I really have room for another rose!)

Yeah -- but WHAT a rose!

It supposedly grows at the LA Arboretum. You might try contacting them for cuttings and see if they'll oblige. Kim

I - DON'T - THINK - SO!

There WAS an extensive garden of Old Roses there -- most of the old plants were put in place by Baldwin's daughters.

Some years ago, some complete fool of a "volunteer" got them to rip out all of those roses, and replace them with Austins.

He came and gave a talk to Santa Barbara Rose Society -- pleased as punch. Even the modern rose people were indignant. One man stood up and asked him how he justified removing historic plants that way. He had no answer. In fact, he didn't understand why they asked it.

But I admit, it would be very interesting to find out what they have, or think they have.

Last time (about a decade and a half ago) I was at the LA Arboretum's rose garden--we're talking about the one near the carriage house, right?--I noticed that a great many of the rose specimens I had been accustomed to enjoying there had been replaced with . . . 'Iceberg' . . . Those who know how I feel about that rose--or rather, about its omnipresence--can probably imagine many of the words--not all the words, but many of them--which sprang into my mind on that discovery. If 'Iceberg' or 'Climbing Iceberg' replaced a 'Climbing Archduke Charles', I have more words, and ones of great vividity, which I'd like to bestow on those responsible.

I understand and share your feelings. But, I've found that often Iceberg is used to replace those which have declined, for whatever reason, because they are a. easily obtainable; b. difficult to kill; and c. usually perform flawlessly without "professional" care. Kim

That's right Brent -- that's the garden. I was told, long, and long, and long ago that the roses were planted either for, or by, one of the Mrs. Baldwins (there were 4, but the first two don't count) OR for, or by, his daughters. If Daughters, I would say, practically-speaking, it would have been Anita Baldwin.

And -- not in this case, Kim. Not unless the Icebergs were planted to replace the Austins which had not worked out well there. I'd bet money that was it.

No, the old roses that were there were well-established and had been quite healthy, and that garden was lovely.

Brent, do you remember the HUGE Chestnut Rose? I know there were Hybrid Musks there -- and I really can't remember what-all. I knew that place best as a child, so I really didn't know about rose names.

I was fortunate, that evening when the vandal spoke to SBRS. I didn't have to lose my temper. Others present did it for me. It got quieter and quieter . . .

Oh, yes, Jeri--the Chestnut Rose, and I remember that there were Teas, though I can't quite recall which ones. It was an enchanting place with an atmosphere all its own in the 1960s and 1970s, when I knew it best. Usually, there was no one else there, as it was somehow a little out of the way, and somewhat hidden until you came upon it. I used to be very fond of the arboretum. But, as with so many places one knew as a youth, "the spirits have fled" with time; the magic is no longer there. Is it our eyes which can no longer see, or that the enchantment has been driven away from the place? The latter, I think.

The latter, Brent.

You know, when I was a child, the "jungle" was just wild. My grandmother just let me run wild through there. Now, it's a disciplined pathway you may not diverge from. Even in the 60's -- you're right -- it was still magic. And now, the magic has gone away.

Yes, and I can't remember the names of the Teas, either, but I know that they were still there in the 80's. Then, they were gone. I can't bear to go there, now.

I don't usually go around saying "Things were better in the old days." But in this case, they WERE. Better, before they "improved" it.

Jeri

The latter, Brent.

You know, when I was a child, the "jungle" was just wild. My grandmother just let me run wild through there. Now, it's a disciplined pathway you may not diverge from. Even in the 60's -- you're right -- it was still magic. And now, the magic has gone away.

Yes, and I can't remember the names of the Teas, either, but I know that they were still there in the 80's. Then, they were gone. I can't bear to go there, now.

I don't usually go around saying "Things were better in the old days." But in this case, they WERE. Better, before they "improved" it.

Jeri