Nessie
Annie Laurie McDowell
Darlow's Enigma
Aptos
Too Cute
Mary Rose

Kim

Marie Pavie
Rosa moshata, the true musk rose.

Both of these roses absolutely knock my socks off. Funnily enough, neither is particularly fragrant when you put your nose right into a bloom. Wafting is an entirely different quality.

I would agree about Darlow's Enigma since I no longer grow it here where it was subject to powdery mildew in my garden.

Rosefolly

Marie Pavie
Rosa moshata, the true musk rose.

Both of these roses absolutely knock my socks off. Funnily enough, neither is particularly fragrant when you put your nose right into a bloom. Wafting is an entirely different quality.

I would agree about Darlow's Enigma since I no longer grow it here where it was subject to powdery mildew in my garden.

Rosefolly

Kim, Too Cute is just too cute! LOL. What is the fragrance like?

Rosefolly, isn't weird how some roses are like that? I once had the Ralph Moore miniature called "Baby Austin." It had no fragrance when you smell the flower, but I swear it wafted the strangest scent.

Secret Garden Musk Climber. It, too, has much more fragrance at least several feet away from the rose than if you stick your nose into the flower. I planted it outside my bedroom window - lovely scent.

Gloire des Rosomanes has a fragrance that wafts, too.

And then there is eglantine foliage. Mmmm.
Anita

In my garden, Annie Laurie McDowell is more potent wafting rose than Marie Pavie. I have one bloom of Annie floats in a bowl, and it perfumes my entire kitchen. I have the same question as Belle: Kim, does your "Too Cute" and "Nessie" have the same musk scent as Marie Pavie, or does it lean toward Annie's scent. Marie Pavie smells strange if I stick my nose into her bloom, but she's wonderful wafting scent!

I would second rosefolly's R. moschata vote. In our garden, it can be smelled at at least 100 yards, early morning when the air is right. Some mornings it hits me as I walk to work, and I'm still across campus from the garden.

This thread is making me jealous. My husband and I don't like warm climates and are glad to be living near the ocean in northern CA where it next to never gets hot. It seems to me that roses need a warm climate in order to "waft." Am I correct in this assumption or is my nose out of order?

I do find that some roses that don't smell very strong in the garden really come to life once they're cut and brought inside. One that comes to mind is Excellenz von Shubert. I can smell that rose across the room.

Diane

Too Cute is a musk seedling. I raised many open pollinated hips I collected from Champneys and a handful of others I collected at The Huntington way back when. I don't know which was responsible for TC because the desert rats were notorious for stealing tags, but from the scent, foliage, growth habit, etc. it's definitely from that direction. Take those traits and slap them together with a polyantha plant and there you have it. Kim

Fogrose, I don't believe it needs to be hot though perhaps the scent wafts better on a warm day. Some of these roses are cold-tender and denied to people in severe winter climates. But if a wafting rose can live in your climate, I would imagine that it would still waft. How far north are you? Coastal California never gets colder than zone 8 as far as I can see looking at a USDA zone map, and right on the coast, zone 9. I would think most of these roses could grow for you.

Rosefolly

BTW - I have no idea how I made the double post earlier in this thread. Couldn't do that on purpose if I'd wanted to!

Strawberryhill, Annie is of a more complex breeding than Nessie. I am much more inclined to believe the documented breeding for Renae stated when it was patented than Mr. Moore's memory half a century later when he was rather advanced in age. Nessie resulted from Montecito, or the rose partially accepted as Francheschi's Montecito, and what I believe was Mlle. Cecile Brunner. I collected much Cecile pollen as it impressed me as being what needed to be crossed with the monster. Again, desert rats stole the actual tag for the cross. I battled them continuously the whole 18 years that garden lived right on the edge of the native chaparral. I destroyed MANY nests and sent many to their final rewards. I also found hundreds of plant labels in those nests. (Hmm, perhaps Jeri's dog who loves tags is also of "very mixed breeding"? LOL!)

Both are intensely sweet fragrances to me, but Nessie's has a very strong spice element to my nose, as opposed to Annie's more OGR sweetness. Too Cute, to me, is closer to Secret Garden, though quite a bit sweeter and less 'soapy' than SG. I would characterize them as...

Annie - sweet, more OGR

Nessie - sweet and intensely spicy

Secret Garden - classic "Musk scent", sweet and rather soapy. Not the bitter sweet smell obtained from Hybrid Musks which is actually multiflora, but the soapy-sweet real Musk scent.

Too Cute - some of the soapy element but much sweeter than SG

Aren't individual noses fun? Kim

The scent of Jaune Desprez is all over, front and back yards both, during a flush. ~Debbie

Albertine----Paul's Himalayan Musk-----Clair Matin are all in bloom at the same time and my side yard smells delicious-- the fragrance also wafts in through my French Doors so we enjoy the fragrance inside----Zeffy blooms earlier but she does a good job also-----

Florence

Diane -- Here on our Camarillo hillside, we can see the sunlight glancing off the sea, near Mugu Rock. Roses most-certainly "waft" here. Even I can detect it, and I am "fragrance-challenged."

The strongest "wafter" to me is one Kim cited: "Secret Garden Musk Climber."
Another, for me, is the Climber "Sombreuil" ("Colonial White").
Noisettes do it for me -- "Setzer Noisette," and the Tea-Noisette,.'Reve d'Or,'
And I have a little Musk thing here that I think now is a sport from another rose-friend's garden, which I think is going to be a champion wafter, when it grows up.

Jeri

Jeri, I believe that your garden is in full sun and that your temperatures are probably warmer than mine. Today we're at 65.3 F and that's because Indian Summer seems to have started here.

But am willing to admit that it's my nose although I still believe outdoor temperature plays a part. Clair Matin only has fragrance for me when brought into the house.

Diane

I think I'm going to have to give that Annie Laurie a try. It's looks and sounds wonderful!

Fogrose, I envy you Excellenz von Schubert. That one just did not want to bloom for me. Was it too hot here?

What a fun and interesting subject scent is. I was just rereading Gregg Lowery's article on it in the Fall 2010 Vintage Newsletter. He put Marie Pavie's scent in the same class as the Albas, and Clothilde Soupert among the Musks.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fall 2010 Vintage Newsletter

Everything plays a part, Diane. If it's too cold, too dry, too hot or too wet outside, scent either is lost or doesn't express itself. Each one has tremendously varying levels and components, each of which may be too imperceptible for individual noses to detect. Bringing the blooms in the house eliminates the wind issue, and generally raises the humidity so the oils and alcohols don't evaporate away so quickly. It may also either raise the temperature to the threshold needed for expression or reduce it to prevent too rapid evaporation. Gene Boerner checked for scent by putting blooms under his hat where the temperature from his head and higher humidity would enable him to better check for them. Initially, I hadn't perceived scent from Brown Velvet, but opened indoors, it was very nicely scented.

It's rather warm and humid out front this morning. There is a gentle breeze which helps, so I can tell Eyes for You and Sweet Nothings are in bloom many feet down the walk from where the pots sit. Even those which aren't usually "stinky" are smelling pretty good right now. Kim

Thanks Kim, I'm sure that the scent of a rose is a very complicated issue especially since some people can't smell certain roses etc. I have a Reine de Violettes that seems to have little fragrance for me yet I see everyone raving about it's fragrance. Sometimes I wonder if what I have really is RDV.

bellegallica, thanks for that link on Gregg's site. Will read it soo. I find it interesting the scent classifications he uses for the roses on Vintage's website. Many that he labels "intense" are not that for me. Marie Pavie scent certainly bears no resemblance to an Alba for me, much more a "green apple" scent.

Diane

bellegallica, forgot to mention...Burlington Roses has a waiting list for next spring for ALM. I'm down for 2.

Diane

Diane -- Open up your guest room!

If it's 65 deg. for you, today, I'm on my way. That's the sort of summer temperatures we USED to get.

Now -- It was 86 on my patio before lunchtime, and it is 80 in my living room. The humidity's up, too. The only good thing about the third straight week of abnormal heat is that laundry hung out on the patio dries quickly with no electricity used. (We're using all the electricity we can afford, to run fans.)

We'll be in San Jose on 9/29, for the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden Open Garden -- so if the Bay Area is heading for cooler Fall weather, I'm thrilled!

Jeri

Hi Jeri, it's 72F in San Jose today. I'll see you at the open garden on the 29th. I Plan on getting there early so I can be first in line for the roses I want.

Sorry for your increased heat. All in all, our weather has been beautiful here with a lot less fog than most years.

Diane

Thanks Belle, for a great thread (I wonder about the same thing). I grow roses for scent alone.

Thank you, Kim for your explanation of differences in scents of Annie, Nessie, Too Cute, and Secret Garden. I'll add Too Cute to my buy-list from Burlington (I already paid in advance to reserve 2 Ms.HOT-CAKE-ANNIE). Will let you know how "Too Cute" is like scentwise in my alkaline clay soil. I think it would be great in a vase with your purple Lauren polyantha, which won a medal in the cut-flower division.

Rosefolly, sorry I missed your post. Am just south of San Francisco right near the ocean in part shade so we hardly ever build up much warmth. Depending on whose map, I'm either zone 9 or 10. I'm limited to shade tolerant roses for the most part. Marie Pavie doesn't have a whole lot of scent for me.

But with today's sun I must admit I could smell Kathleen from a distance so that's a good thing.

Diane

I enjoy many strongly-scented roses, both in my garden and in those of friends, but the following are the roses that say hello the most to anyone in the vicinity:

Felicite Parmentier--I can find her in the dark without a flashlight, her scent is like a beacon, she may have the most and best perfume of all my roses
York and Lancaster--a massive bloomer that drapes over shrubs and small trees and all around the air is heavy with perfume
Rosa californica 'First Dawn'--a group of these at a plant sale drew me in from many feet away the scent was so strong and delicious, had to buy this one on the spot, and now I have a second
Rosa woodsi ultramontana--a super wafter seen at Eurodesert, no way to ignore this rose, the whole area around it smelled great!
Rosa blanda--another Eurodesert super wafter
Rosa eglanteria--Eurodesert again!--there was no way to walk on the road next to this rose without noticing the fragrance of the flowers and the leaves
Rosa primula--it's the foliage, mmmmmmmm citrusy incense
Paul's Himalayan Musk--when this rose cascades out of a tree, the sweet aroma permeates the air, divine!
Jenny Duval--every spring heavily covered in flowers, her scent floats across the path
Mme William Paul--right across from Jenny D, the Mme insures the walkway smells wonderful coming from the other side
Gertrude Jekyll--brought one home in the car with ONE open bloom and the whole car smelled TERRIFIC
Polareis--very distinctive and quite strong tropical fruit scent comes from the unopened buds, the scent shoots up the nose and lingers, pungent!

But thinking of wafting brings back memories of my first Paul's Himalayan Musk. It was very vigorous and had sprawled across and through several fruit trees near my patio. I'll never forget reclining in a lounge chair sipping a cup of tea in the twilight of a fine spring day and enjoying the gentle swaying of Paul's Himalayan Musk's canes, awash in pink flowers, with the heady sweet scent floating through the air. Mmmmm, wonderful.

But just to dash that idyllic picture--PHM is a tree-eating, house-eating rose. It throws out 30-foot canes like child's play. If you don't have the space, and/or don't like big, this is not the rose for you. But if you like to relax in the garden and inhale air redolent with floral pleasures, well this is a rose to reach those heights.

Melissa

Melissa--I love what you said about PHM-----you are so right---it is a fantastic rose if you have th e space---we had her growing up a tree-- it was doing well but we put an addition on our house and it had to be moved--my son was standing in the garden holding the roots and asked "where should I put this"?--had much on my mind and I said just put it over on the tree line-which he did and there it stayed totally forgotten and neglected until one spring a couple of years later when it burst into bloom--wrapped around and draping over whatever got in it's way and perfuming the side yard---it has been a treasure every spring with no care---just some alfalfa thrown around it---
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walking under PHM
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Florence

Florence,

I planted one this year. Based on your pictures I will be anticipating a great deal even if it takes awhile. Much of the pleasure of gardening is anticipation...and then, finally, fulfillment.

Cath

Hi Bellegallica: You asked if where you are is too hot for Excellenz von Schubert to bloom? That one has multiflora parentage and doesn't like alkaline soil. My Austin Eglantyne has multiflora parentage and gives me only 2 blooms this year - I have alkaline clay soil.

That's why I pay HMF membership so I can trace the lineage to see if a rose has multiflora parents. It's not bad if a rose is grafted on Dr. Huey, but it's a challenge on alkaline clay with own-root.

I find Blush Noisette very confusing.
I have four of them and when they first arrived, I wasn't ready to plant them. So, I potted them all up and lined them up beside the path.
Their wafting scent was wonderful!!!
I would walk up and down the path, just to smell them.
However, since they were been planted out three years ago, they have stopped wafting!!!
They are now six foot by five foot shrubs and flower continuously. But it is only rarely, that they waft now, and when they do, it is very faint.
Very strange.
Daisy

My two best "wafters" are Blush Noisette and Cornelia.
Molly

Daisy, fogrose started another thread about wafting, and included a link to an article about fragrance in roses. Maybe you can find a clue as to why your Blush Noisettes stopped wafting. Could it be the change in soil chemistry? (I'll link the article below.)

Here is a link that might be useful: fragrance article

I walked around the garden taking photos this morning and as usual could detect the strong sweet perfume of 'Geranium Red' (Boerner, 1947) from 10 feet away. A reliable wafter.

Thank you, Hoovb - I was interested in "Geranium Red" since I want a red floribunda. What you wrote about its wafting sweet perfume makes me want in 100%.

Check out what Paul Barden in Oregon wrote as to his best wafting rose: "The newest introduction by Mr. Moore is a shrub rose of what appears to be R. multiflora descent, called 'Vineyard Song'. It is a semi-cascading shrub of about 3 feet tall that bears large clusters of soft mauve and purple double blooms. The fragrance is unbelieveable! For the first 2 months, I kept my plant of it in the greenhouse, and when the air was still, this rose was all you could smell in there! It is a strong, almost apple-like scent, and it travels far from the plant. I am very impressed with this beautiful little shrub."

I am looking forward to my Vineyard Song being big enough to waft like that. She's a lovely thing, but she is still struggling to compete with Lady Waterlow and Rosemary Rose for enough room to be seen and smelled.

Mommy...I don't grow for scent, but the two that I always catch a breeze of are Hansa and Cornelia.

Tammy

Paul is right on about Vineyard Song. It is of the same breeding as Sweet Chariot, and like that rose, strongly multiflora. So, for highly alkaline situations, as with the other strongly multiflora roses, will require amendment or other treatments to alleviate chlorosis. I have found if I plant those as if they're camellias, azaleas or gardenias, amending the soil with something like a camellia mix, it prevents the pale, yellow-green foliage with light lavender to white flowers. In more neutral to acidic situations, it's a non issue. Kim

Good (wonderful) wafters for me are 'Mme. Plantier'--which also has a superb scent--and a lot of Hybrid Musks: 'Moonlight', 'Cornelia' (Multiflora or Musk scent?); 'Vanity' (sweet China), Felicia (exquisite: old rose plus Multiflora or Musk). 'Jaune Desprez' (Musk); and I believe that 'Fruehlingsgold's scent may have carried as well, a mixture of linseed oil and old rose sweetness.

LOL...I swear I am never using GW on my phone again! The word "mommy" in my previous post should have said "mostly" ...that's just embarrassing! Autocorrect kills me...

Tammy

My best wafting fragrance is Reine des Violettes. You can smell here from several feet a away. Then would probably be my two Austin's Golden Celebration and Graham Thomas. Rose de Rescht smells good too but it doesn't seem to waft much.