I hope everyone is doing well. My mother loves Austin roses and would like to extend out a border with one variety. There is space for probably 4 of the more compact Austins. I have no idea how large these get here in So Cal., but I don't see mention of any of these as climbers at the very least. As always- mild, coastal, essentially winter-less conditions.

She is particularly interested in:
Munstead Wood
Ambridge Rose
Tamora (I've read of rust issues on the coast, but it sure was the right size at the Huntington)
Crocus Rose (syn. Emanuel)
Princess Anne
Windermere
Charles Darwin

She prefers Munstead Wood of these I believe, but info on any of their growth habits here would be much appreciated. She acquired a Twilight Zone this year, so besides that and Ebb Tide, are there any purple or very dark reds that can go purple you all can recommend? I believe she's also seeking a very full double bloom, so IHT isn't in play despite it being a healthy, dependable rose by reputation.

Besides these, are there any Austins, OGRs, or other similar styled modern roses that would stay compact here and are either dark purple, apricot, or creamy colored that you would recommend?

I don't have any strong desire for Austins, but she seems to hold them in higher regard than most OGRs or other moderns on the whole. The garden got a little out of hand for a few years during a time when she was too ill to do much out there, I was in college, and my Dad has little interest in gardening. However I'm now back in Los Angeles, she's doing much better, and it has been a joy to revitalize their garden when I have very little space for gardening myself. So as much as I've been thoroughly indoctrinated with the idea that there are plenty of better types of roses for Coastal California than Austins, I'd absolutely love to give her as close to the garden she has always wanted as possible.

Jay

Munstead Woods has stayed compact so far. Ambridge Rose has as well and is an outstanding rose. Tamora stays compact, but there is a specimen at the San Jose Rose Garden that has grown to 4 to 5 feet. If you don't prune them hard in the winter, some of the shorter Austins can grow much taller than the size stated in the catalogue. Windemere is an excellent rose and has grown to 3 to 4 feet in our garden. Charles Darwin grows to 5 feet high x 5 feet across here. We have not had Princess Anne long enough to know how tall it will ultimately get. Crocus Rose, however, does throw long canes and will grow to around 6 feet x 6 feet; I don't think that it is the same rose as Emmanuel. Addition ones for you to consider would be Sophy's Rose, which produces a plant that has never gotten taller than 3 feet for us; Prospero which has stayed around 3 feet tall; Ann Bolyne, another 3 footer; The Prince, which is 3 to 4 feet for us;and English Garden, a 3 footer. Many of these older Austins can be found at Chamblees Roses in Tyler, TX or at Hortico.

Good luck in your choice!

'The Dark Lady' is another Austin that likes coastal conditions. I am told she will make 4 ft., but I have not seen that happen, and if she's going to do so on her own roots, I hope I live to see it. She is disease-free for us, and a fast repeat bloomer. She is blooming generously now, and has been through most of the year.

Tamora was stiffly upright here. She was a good bloomer, and had great fragrance, but she rusted almost all of the time, and mildewed to boot. And that was when we sprayed religiously. She is long-gone, and un-mourned -- as is Ambridge Rose, which suffered from the same ills.

The Prince is still here, but going soon. He doesn't appear to like our conditions, and blooms sparsely for us. His color, though, is remarkable, and he does not rust or mildew.

As a contrasting shade of purple, in Southern California, I really recommend 'International Herald Tribune,' which is completely disease-free, and a good repeat bloomer. It, too, is blooming well here now.

If your conditions are not prohibitively alkaline, I would also recommend 'Baptiste laFaye,' a Polyantha which is disease-free, and has lovely color. (See below)

Jeri

Ingrid

If you have some time this weekend, it is the last weekend of the 40% fall rose sale at Otto and Sons in Fillmore (take the 5 to the 126) I don't see any Munstead Woods listed, but you can always ask, they have fields to grow them out and they might not be big enough for the sales area, but they have lots of Ambridges and Crocus Rose. I also like Cardingmill and it has stayed small.

I have taken Mom, it is a nice nursery and the sales area is done nice too if mom gets tired easy and needs to sit down (my mom is 90 so I look for places like that for her to visit)

Absolutely get Ambridge Rose. In fact get two! They're that great. I cannot guarantee disease resistance because of our difference in climate, but for me it is healthy as a horse and quite drought tolerant. They will grow to about 4-5' tall but not even 3' wide. I'm sure if you pruned it back it could stay smaller.

Sharifa Asma is another you should consider. She is well behaved and one of the most fragrant varieties I've grown. Not quite as good of disease resistance as Ambridge, but once you get a whiff of her you will excuse her.

I would also take a look at Souv. De La Malmaison. Great rose and will stay more compact than others. The fragrance is good as well.

Josh

I second the Sharifa Asma,

I grew this plant in a pot in Marina del Rey, years ago, living adjacent to the water, then planted it in the ground when relocating to Santa Monica; so a very coastal, then close to coastal location. My ex mother-in-law resided in MarVista, and hers thrived too. That location had the coastal influence, but was not right there. It thrived in all three locations and could be a beautiful, fragrant rose, in your mother's garden.

Lynn

As to some of the recommendations, she actually quite likes the scent of Glamis Castle. I am somewhat ambivalent, but she acquired one that went into a mixed border earlier this year. Sort of soapy or lotiony. Very different at the very least. I too wish it was less prickly.

The Prince seems to, but does Prospero ever take on a purple hue? I know Jeri has posted some gorgeous arrangements of Prospero and Sombreuil, but those were all rich red. Purple or Apricot/Apricot Blend would be her ideal color there I know.

Can anyone put in a word for Mr. Rupert's 'Purple Buttons?

Thanks again,

Jay'

Isn't it gorgeous! So far--its first year here--it is a shorty--and very floriferous.

Pretty Jessica is another excellent short Austin.

I also grow Austin's Anne Boleyn--mine is not a good bloomer, but maybe it needs more sun. It is 2.5 ft tall (about 5 years old). Pretty when it does bloom.

Kate

Prospero opens wine-red, but finishes a distinct poiple. Once we quit pruning it, it turned into a real workhorse. Redder certainly than The Prince (which is true purple here, start to finish) but a far, far better plant.

Purple Buttons for sure. It, too, was wine for me. It made me think of Homer's Wine Dark Sea.

Now, I've never grown Glamis Castle. But I did grow Fair Bianca, and I may plant it again, one day. I would grow it in a container, maybe -- I think it maybe got up to 15-inches here. But that odd myrrh fragrance? I'm with your mom. I like it very much. Fair Bianca was my choice for a rose in a bud vase, to smell on the way to bed. I loved the look AND the scent of Fair Bianca.

Jeri

'Munstead Wood' is still short, but it's only 2nd year. Tamora, Ambridge Rose, Glamis Castle are husky 6 footers. Windermere is towering, I must constantly hack to keep it at 6 feet.

There are few Austin roses that I actually LOVE. This is one of them.

Jeri

Could you all tell me more about these Austin roses:
Sophy's Rose.
Pretty Jessica
Queen of Sweeden
Wife of Bath

I think we found a place elsewhere for a "test" Munstead Wood if it gets large in the long run.

A few of you mentioned these previously, but could expound on your experiences with them? What color would you say Sophy's Rose is in person? And are any of these roses noticeably mildew prone? They seem to be compact just about everywhere.

I love the thought of a hedge of SdM, but has anyone near the coast in Southern California found it to do well? Bourbons are a class I haven't given much consideration to on the whole.

Jay

My Pretty Jessica (4-5 years old)--stays a generous 3 ft in height (zone 6 again) and I've never heard of a taller one anywhere. Really fully packed fat blooms--so packed that they have trouble fully opening. Fairly good on disease-resistance here. Not overly floriferous, but fairly regular and steady in its bloomings. No apricot shades in its pink blooms--maybe just a hint of a blue overtone, in fact.

So far, I've heard of no one complaining that Munstead Wood grows taller than indicated in Austin's catalog. But, of course, most Munstead Wood plants are fairly young yet, but my taller Austins started indicating rather quickly that they intended to get taller, whereas Munstead Wood looks like it is content to be shorter and fuller.

Hope that helps.

Kate

Wife of Bath is short, with delicate, light pink, not very packed flowers. A pretty rose, but it didn't like its hot location so I haven't had a mature one to comment about.

Kate has described Pretty Jessica very well; I can't think of anything to add. Mine is young and doesn't bloom much yet.

Jay, if you're near the coast I would forget about Bourbons. Just ask Jeri! Apparently they mildew badly and their blooms ball. Inland, for me, it's a great rose, but cool and foggy it does not like.

Ingrid

I have seen SdlM growing inland -- say, in the Sacramento City Cemetery -- so I understand why it is so beloved.

Here at the coast, it is a mildewy pile of drech, with never an open bloom. And, really -- Bourbons on the whole don't succeed here. Trying to grow them in my climate is no pleasure.

Jeri

Are there any compact apricot Polyanthas? Perle d'Or is lovely, but it gets quite large apparently.

I knew several of those Austins were pink with no apricot or other hues, but it's good to know about their habits and health nonetheless. My mom seems set on either an Austin, Apricot Polyantha (she liked, but wasn't blown away by Purple Buttons in photo), or very unique colored rose.

I showed her a photo of Moore's Wedding Cake and she couldn't believe it. That is a rose she is determined to try sometime now. She (unfortunately?) feels the same way about the Grey Pearl. Pretty much anything on Paul Barden's website is something she wants to try now, ha.

Jay

Kate

We got a chance to make it out to Otto and Sons today (just missing the sale unfortunately). We took a look at quite a few roses new to both of us and ended up generally going in a different direction from Austins. The Austin test bed there afforded my mom a chance to see Munstead Wood blooming in person which was very elucidating. She liked it, but didn't love it like the photos of it she had seen. She would probably still like to try it, but not enough to get several.

We did get several Rose de Rescht to try however. The scent and color was very nice in person, and the shrubs looked quite nice. We also picked up a Distant Drums which is one of her favorites. I really did know it when I saw it from a distance! There were almost too many interesting things! We nearly got a Rosa Viridiflora, Rosa Rubrifolia/Glauca, Lady of Shallot, and George Burns.

The one Austin we did get that most impressed my mother in person was an Ambridge Rose. I know some have reported rust, but neither I nor my mom recall ever seeing it on even the most neglected of roses that we've tried. You have to take some chances in the long run, so this will be one. Queen of Sweeden was a close second for those who had mentioned it. Much more apricot in person than most photos suggested. It may have just been the one left was not the best shrub, but Sharifa Asma didn't catch my mom's eye.

It was a nice plus to add a new OGR cultivar to the ranks of the couple of true Teas, one HP, and a few older Polyanthas present (not true OGRs I know). Thanks for all of your input!

Jay