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| Hi, I've lurked here for quite a while, but haven't posted because I'm new to roses and am trying to soak it all in and learn from all of you. Now I have a problem with my roses I'm worried about. I have a place in northeastern Oklahoma that I visit every few weeks, but I don't live there full time, yet. I have planted gardens with roses that I keep watered with a timer and soaker hoses. I have 2 roses, Clytemnestra and Crepuscule, that started showing strange growth that I feared was Rose Rosette disease. I took samples to the county extension agency, but the gentleman wasn't sure what was the problem. There was none of the characteristic thorny growth, but they're thornless roses. He sent the samples to OSU for testing, and the tests came back negative for both the mites and the disease. So, that leaves me wondering what on earth is happening? I have not sprayed any herbicide since these roses were planted, which I think was around 4 years ago. I did spray once with neem oil, a couple of months ago. That's the only time I have sprayed anything. I feed them with alfalfa pellets, cottonseed meal, kelp meal and epsom salts. The Crepuscule gets full sun, and only has this problem on one branch so far, while the Clytemnestra is in a fair amount of shade, but gets filtered light and some afternoon sun. Most of her is affected with the wilted growth. Thanks for any help or ideas of what could be going on. Sally |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by henry_kuska z5 OH (kuska@neo.rr.com) on Sat, Oct 26, 13 at 10:07
| What about a lawn service using weed and feed type products either on your property or on a nearby property? |
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| Check with all your neighbors to find out if any of them sprayed anything. The spray can float a considerable distance on even a light breeze. |
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| It does look a lot like herbicide damage. Could be drift from a neighbor, as others already suggested. I hope your roses make a good recovery. Crepuscule in particular is a favorite of mine. Rosefolly |
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| Thanks. Yes, it does look a lot like herbicide damage, but I forgot to mention that these roses are in the middle of a 2 acre property, with woods to the east, and fairly open space to the west and north. The house is to the south of the roses. Come to think of it, the people across the street, (to the north), probably a football field distance, do spray their fence line. But, wouldn't all my plants be showing damage? I have other roses and perennials that are not showing any damage.....yet. I've worried that maybe the alfalfa meal or cottonseed meal had herbicide residual, but again, it seems that would have affected all my plants. Thanks again for your help. Sally |
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- Posted by jacqueline3 9CA (My Page) on Sat, Oct 26, 13 at 12:57
| Was it really hot weather when they got sprayed with neem oil? |
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- Posted by henry_kuska z5 OH (kuska@neo.rr.com) on Sat, Oct 26, 13 at 13:35
| The herbicide does not have to come from the air. Water that is contaminated by herbicide may only flow in a narrow "channel" underground (path of least resistance). Only one or very few of the rose roots could be in that area. That/those particular root/roots could only/mainly feed one or a few canes. Are there areas around your property that are uphill from the affected roses? |
Here is a link that might be useful: my rose rosette web page
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| Jaqueline, yes, it probably was hot. I sprayed in the evening. I don't even remember whether I sprayed these roses or not, but I sprayed a daylily for rust, and decided to spray the roses, too, since they could get it. It was either evening or early morning when I sprayed - I think evening, getting dark. Henry, I'll have to check the lay of the land the next time we're up there. I don't think I'd have run off from my neighbors, but I do use well water. Sadly, my next door neighbor has turned his property into a dump, literally, so no telling what he's piling up over there. His pile of trash is probably a good 100 to 200 feet away, at the very least. I should get my well water tested. It's time to do it anyway. Thanks for all the help with this. Sally |
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| Sorry to say but it still looks like RRD to me, the witches broom look at the tip, esp.The mites could be long gone. I didn't know one easily could test for the virus. If it's herbicide, it will clear up eventually. Also, in my experience, herbicide tends to affect all the new growth, while RRD is sporadic in the beginning--a bit here, a bit there, frequently on just one or two canes at first. |
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| Sure looks like RRD to me also, but if they tested it and eliminated RRD as the problem, then I would cut off all the ugly growth and wait while the plant grows back again. If it was some kind of random herbicide damage, the plant should grow back normally. If it is RRD, the RRD symptoms will return with the new growth. As far as I know, those are the only two causes of that kind of ugly growth. By the way, I don't think prickles are necessarily a required symptom of RRD. Pickles OFTEN accompany the RRD symptoms, but you can have the symptoms, I believe, with only minor prickles problems. Kate |
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| Yeah, I wondered if I brought in a sample that no longer had the disease in it. The letter I received said this, "The sample was examined for eriophyid mites by Dr. Rick Grantham. No mites were observed on the sample submitted." Also, it said, "The sample was tested for the rose rosette virus using a molecular test. The sample tested negative for the rose rosette virus with an RNA based test. It is not likely that rose rosette disease is the cause of the symptoms." It didn't surprise me that they didn't find the mites, as they very well could have moved on. I don't know if the virus "moves on" also, or stays in the branch. There's no telling how much time lapsed from the time I cut the samples, and they tested them. I'll cut them way back and see what happens next year. I just hope it, whatever "it" is, doesn't spread to the other roses I planted. When I got interested in roses, I planted quite a few, being eager to experience them to the fullest. Thanks again for being here, and being so helpful. Sally |
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- Posted by gnabonnand Zone 8 Texas (My Page) on Sun, Oct 27, 13 at 9:45
| I had growth that looked like that on one of my roses in the spring of this year. It continued until the rose was covered with that growth. The rose was completely dead by the end of summer. Now there have been some signs of it on a couple of nearby roses. I hope it's not RRD. But I've never seen this issue in my garden before this year. I hope whatever was wrong with my rose is not what you are experiencing on your rose. Randy |
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- Posted by henry_kuska z5 OH (kuska@neo.rr.com) on Sun, Oct 27, 13 at 10:40
| The herbicide damage may show up again next year if the source of the herbicide is not located and removed/prevented from reaching your roses. |
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- Posted by kittymoonbeam 10 (My Page) on Mon, Oct 28, 13 at 2:54
| Are they new plantings? maybe they were sick when they were sold to you? Sorry about this, I hope it's not RRD. |
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| They were planted around 4 years ago, if I remember correctly. The next time I'm up there, I'll cut them back, and possibly remove the Clytemnestra completely, as she has the worst damage. Sally |
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| Sally, Do you guys have Chilli thrips that far north of me? The death of the terminal shoot does not strike me as typical of rose rosette, and RRD, in my experience, is much more aggressive in its growth. With all things considered, I believe RRD is essentially cancer of roses in that the virus causes hyperneoplasia. From what I know of cancer viruses in eukaryotic cells, death does not occur to the cancerous cells as long as there is a food source to feed the growth. Therefore the growth endangers the organism as a whole but does not cause destruction of the affected cells. Therefore I would have to strongly stand by the prognosis that the plant is not RRD infected. I would suspect environmental factors before disease factors. If the damage is indeed caused by chilli thrips, which can be highly mobile, it may explain the lack of observable, offending organisms on the sample. I hope Dr. Malcolms can offer his assistance here. He is far more knowledgeable than I, and I am merely an undergrad student. Please do not take my thoughts as scientific as law. Josh |
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| The mites wouldn't be "long gone." Rather, the mite population explodes on RRD-infected shoots. |
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| Thanks, Josh and Michael. Are Chilli Thrips the same thing as, well, Thrips? I've seen thrips in the rose flowers here in the Dallas area. I haven't seen them cause damage to the foliage. Do Chilli thrips attack the foliage? That's good to know, Michael. I guessed that as the mites, if that's what was there, consumed whatever it is they consume, they move on down the rose. I'll keep y'all posted as I go up there and see what's going on. There's been a couple of light freezes in the area. It'll be interesting to see how that affects things. Sally |
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| Chilli thrips do attack the foliage. What you have probably experienced in Dallas, where I live too, is most likely a case of Western Flower Thrips. Chilli Thrips are much smaller, almost impossible to see with the naked eye, and cause widespread plant destruction. The symptoms can sometimes Mimi RRD. Best of luck! Josh |
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- Posted by holleygarden 8/East Texas (My Page) on Tue, Nov 19, 13 at 21:21
| I was reading 'Rose Rosette Disease: Demystified' by the Texas A & M AgriLife Extension Service and one of the questions in the article is: Are my roses "clean" if the genetic (PCR) detection test is negative? The answer is: Not necessarily. And it goes on to explain more. (See Page 3 of the Link) I hope it's not RRD, but I thought you might find that interesting. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Rose Rosette Disease Demystified
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| Holley Garden, thanks for the link. I was impressed by the article. To my way of thinking, RRD is the worst problem rose growers can face. Worse even than gophers. Sally2, wishing you all the best with Crepuscule. I hope it survives. Sorry about Clytemnestra. Rosefolly |
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