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| Not what I planned but practicalities have meant that the only possible planting edges I can get to (for now)are along an east facing bank or facing open fields to the north. Obviously, I want to plant more than berberis and pyracanthas. What roses have you come across which can manage an early morning sun situation or the perpetual cool shade from a north facing bank. Water is not really an issue and both aspects are, at least, open so the eastern side looks over a water meadow while the northerly aspect overlooks sugarbeet fields. I am looking for tough, wildlings which can withstand the rapid thaw of the eastern rising sun as well as roses to keep the planned raspberries and blackcurrants company to the north of the woods. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| I've found that many of my roses do quite well in an eastern facing situation. I have a spot that I can't plant (massive tree roots) so each summer I chose a potted one to put there. It gets sun from dawn to about noon. It hasn't mattered what rose I put there, They all did very well. They seemed to really like the morning only sunlight. I have had climbers, HTs, floris, shrubs and polys there and they all did great! |
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- Posted by SouthCountryGuy SE BC 5a-5b (My Page) on Tue, Oct 8, 13 at 13:54
| Great question Camp. I have a similar situation so look forward to the replies. Mine get sun off and on from dawn till 3 as the sun moves through the trees, way more on than off. Seil thanks for sharing that experience. I was scared I couldn't put HT or such there. SCG |
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| I have these roses growing in an Eastern exposure with sun til early afternoon (this varies along the length of the house; some only have sun until barely one in the afternoon): Dainty Bess, Heirloom, Blueberry Hill, and Wild Blue Yonder, which gets somewhat more than the others. They all do well and are blooming a lot more than the rest of my roses that have more sun. They all seem to like the coldish weather we've been having, too. Diane |
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| Seems to me that Companula's question is one that defies generalities. To answer the question helpfully, I think it's important to consider the latitude in which the garden is situated. In my coastal Carolina (zone 8) environment, my preferred planting locations are those that receive full sun only until very early afternoon. That was not the case when I gardened only a few hundred miles north of here. |
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- Posted by poorbutroserich none (My Page) on Tue, Oct 8, 13 at 17:14
| Camps my climate is not similar to yours and I don't grow the species--wish I had room. But let me tell ya the roses bred by Geschwind could survive a nuclear winter. Super vigorous even in deep shade. Schonste is amazing! Susan |
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| I am utterly at sea with this since I only grow one rose in an easterly position....which has not really covered itself in glory - Pomponella...... while Zephirine Drouhin is my only north facing rose (again, can be iffy). All my others are grown on my flat, open and sunny allotment or south and west sides of my tiny walled garden. I suspect that hardiness is far less of an issue than light....or lack of it. On closer inspection, the positions are a bit skewed since the meadow side actually faces N/E, with tall poplars directly at the back of the planting edge, while the 'north' face is directed more like N/W and is also somewhat more open inasmuch as a wide ride has been cleared into the centre of the woods on a N/W, S/E axis. On balance, would you have any preference between these 2 faintly challenging positions? Have noted suggestions (and particularly pleased by Dainty Bess) |
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- Posted by harborrose 8b-PNW (My Page) on Tue, Oct 8, 13 at 19:54
| Campanula, Close to a north facing wall that gets sun from perhaps noon for a few hours in the afternoon, 'Ghislaine de Feligonde' does pretty well, blooming most of the summer with nice foliage. I grow it as a mounding shrub. On the eastern cliff edge of my back surrounded by forest with maybe 20 feet clearance, I grow hybrid musks pretty well, Cornelia, Pax who is new so iffy as a rec, and Buff Beauty I also have Gilda, a hybrid multiflora, along that edge, and seems to be fine there. I like that rose, but don't know if it's a style you like. I remember Mad Gallica remarking that the setigeras are her most shade tolerant rose; i think she's in upstate NY. Sally Holmes might do okay there. If you are at all interested in mosses, Henri Martin or William Lobb might be okay. My HM gets only a couple of hours of afternoon sun, if that. My Pomponella is a sun lover here too. She gets shaded by some aggressive lah-de-dah dahlias in the summer and definitely resents them. I've found the hybrid multiflora/multiflora types seem to do well in less than ideal sun spots. Purple Skyliner is in the edge of a forested area and is doing okay. Do you like Lyda Rose? Would you want to try some rugosas? I think Wasagaming is shade tolerant; or at least mine puts up with shade. Both Therese Bugnet and Polareis/Ritausma seem to need sun, though. And then the albas - semi -plena might be fine in either place and a bloom form you might like. Do you dislike Madame Hardy? I'd also try hugonis or some of the other early yellows, just to see. My hugonis is a baby I read that Spanish Beauty/Madame Gregoire Staechelin is shade tolerant, somewhere. I think I also read it is not shade tolerant, so much for books, doncha know. But I'd be tempted to try it just to see; I've read you love that rose. Would it grow as a mounding shrub, do you think? I don't know about Duplex - I have mine in sun at the edge of the apple terrace. Honestly, if it were me, Campanula, I'd dig up or take cuttings of everything I loved and plant it just to see how it did. Otherwise, I'd spend the rest of my days wondering if it might not have worked after all. Courage, you will make it beautiful! Gean |
This post was edited by harborrose on Tue, Oct 8, 13 at 20:30
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| Knowing the latitude of a garden is only marginally helpful in figuring out the best light exposures for plants, I think. Idaho's latitude runs from 42 degrees north to 49 degrees north, with Boise's being 43 degrees north. Maine's latitude is 43 degrees to 47 degrees north. Someone gardening in lower Maine would live in the same latitude as I do, but wouldn't have summer temps, rainfall, snowfall, winter temps, etc., that are anything like what we have here. What the Maine gardener and I would share, though, is a similarly short growing season. England is really northerly with London having a latitude of 51 degrees north. Diane |
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| Nanadoll, Solar declination and its direct relationship to latitude is a fact, and it is a constant. If you want to talk about intra-latitudinal variations in climate as impacted by terrestial features like elevation, mountain ranges, proximity to oceans, and all other of the myriad features that impact climate, then we can agree that those variations also impact plant hardiness and plant performance. But those features in no way negate the fact that global solar declination is, in fact, a fact -- regardless of where longitudinally you may live and garden. Perhaps I should have been a bit more terse in my initial comment here and simply stated that it's nonsensical for gardeners in southern California or Lea County, New Mexico or anywhere in the American South to attempt to advise a gardener in the British Isles regarding planting aspects for specific varieties of roses. |
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| Putting in another vote for Lyda Rose for northern exposures. Blooms and blooms. Excellenz von Shubert is doing very well in a situation with morning sun. I should think many Albas and Gallicas would do well there also. Have fun, camps. Diane |
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- Posted by daisyincrete 10? (My Page) on Wed, Oct 9, 13 at 0:45
| Suzy. When I lived in Surrey, I grew Madame Alfred Carriere and Parkdirektor Riggers, on the north east, facing wall of my three storey house. They both grew very well, reaching the windows on the third floor. They both had a massive summer flowering, then continued producing a good scattering of flowers all the way through, until the winter. Madam Alfred Carriere used to waft her perfume into my bedroom on warm summer nights. Daisy |
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| Windeaux, indeed, the seasonal declination of the sun has a very direct impact on our gardening...which is why I am still faffing over which edge to start - NW or N/E. There is also a very distinct difference between morning and afternoon sun but being somewhat spatially dyslexic, I often have real problems in working out where to put things (plants). No matter, we are off to the woods tomorrow where I will stake out both areas and attempt a scientific comparison (making allowances for time of year). Gean, thank you for your detailed response - many of your suggestions are roses I do/have or would like to grow - Madame Gregoire, Ghislaine and numerous HMs. My son grows MAC on a north facing wall where there is NO direct sunlight - it performs brilliantly (and roots easily too). Sally Holmes and Lyda have always been on a wish list (I love singles) along with Frances E Lester. Interestingly, I also have a couple of young setigeras so will be moving them as soon as possible as they are likely to be easy to transplant. |
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- Posted by kittymoonbeam 10 (My Page) on Wed, Oct 9, 13 at 11:32
| This might be all wrong but what about planting a variety of inexpensive annuals in each place and see which set grows the best. I would try the roses there. I like the try them all from cuttings and see how it goes idea |
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- Posted by mariannese 5b (My Page) on Wed, Oct 9, 13 at 12:11
| I am on the 59th parallel with comparatively low light levels all year around but with very short summer nights. This compensates for the low light because the roses get some sun already at 4 o'clock in the morning, however weak. I grow lots of roses to the east and northeast. Many spinosissimas such as Double White and Stanwell Perpetual, rugosas Hansa and Moje Hammarberg, Canadian roses Martin Frobisher and Lac Majeau (Martin and Stanwell are still blooming). Six Geschwind climbers: Gilda, Aurelia Liffa, Himmelsauge, Erinnerung an Brod, Caroline Bank (not recommended), and Forstmeisters Heim. The albas are Minette, Queen of Denmark, Maiden's Blush and alba suaveolens. Louise Odier is on the east wall of the house with a short row of gallicas in front of it, Belle Isis, Haddington, Dona Sol, De la Maître d'École and Alain Blanchard. Another bourbon of unknown origin gets a little more sun. Other gallicas are Conditorum and Complicata (a macrantha hybrid if you prefer). Other roses on the east and north side are Rosa californica Plena, Frühlingsduft, Aïcha, Duchess of Portland, Officinalis and Rosa Mundi. Even a HP like Alfred Colomb does very well here but Frau Karl Druschki suffers. Lyda Rose blooms okay but is perhaps not very well suited to my climate and stays too short. For a lover of single blooms I would first of all recommend Duchess of Portland, R. alba suaveolens, any spinosissima (I have a birdsown one in almost complete shade), and Complicata. |
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| Heaving a massive sigh of relief here as I can now contemplate a future with roses (and some rather good ones at that (Californica Plena - one of my absolute favourites). Spins, in shade - what a shock - I have always given mine the sunniest spot, having seen them growing wild on sandbanks facing the North Sea. Am wondering how well the Asian yellows, a class I also admire, especially Cantabridgiensis, might do in a woodland situation. A few years ago, there was a really useful blog written by someone called Kent, who had a woodland rose garden. Although he was keen on frillier roses than I would pick, it was a helpful source of info which has largely vanished (although the wayback machine still has some of it archived). Mariannese, I will pm you but just wanted to publicly give you a huge thank you for the treasure trove of martagon seeds. You were so generous with them that I can actually scatter them in suitable undisturbed places and let them get on with it - an option simply not possible with the usual mean amounts of seed in commercial seed packets. I mean.....how excited can anyone get opening an expensive packet to find a mere 10 seeds! As it can take over 5 years (even 7) to flower, it barely seems worth the effort of waiting on 10 possible seedlings.....but 500 or so!!! Again, a massive hug and thank you for the lovely surprise in the post (and a complete change from the usual brown envelopes with bills and demands). The generosity of gardeners is truly boundless. |
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- Posted by kittymoonbeam 10 (My Page) on Wed, Oct 9, 13 at 20:26
| I looked through my garden books for suggestions. One of my books ( Jane Fearnley-Whittingstall's Garden Plants made easy 1997 ) published in London suggests these roses for north and east facing situations Alberic Barbier |
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