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| Hi, Exactly how large is a mature SDLM in your area? I have been trying to determine what to put where, and have found conflicting information regarding the mature size of this rose bush. To make matters worse, I have only seen two images of it in its entirety vs. a bloom (s), but do not know the region or zone in which those bushes live to utilize what I saw as a point of reference. I am trying to avoid planting something in front of it that will dwarf or block it entirely, and vice -versa in other spaces. Are the sports of SDLM larger? Lynn |
This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Wed, Oct 30, 13 at 17:48
Follow-Up Postings:
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| It is fully cane-hardy to ~zone 7b, depending perhaps on how mature are the canes when the temperature drops to 5. If it doesn't have winter damage and it does get some heat in summer, it will get 4' wide and about that tall, though mine was always wider than tall. My impression is that 'Souv. de St Anne's' and 'Kronprinzessin Viktoria' are slightly more vigorous than SdlM, 'Mystic Beauty', and 'Mme Cornelissen'. My 'Capt. Dyel' is smaller, but there is something wrong with his site. Labrea showed a KpV in New York City that was over 5' tall. |
This post was edited by michaelg on Wed, Oct 30, 13 at 14:58
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| I saw Joe's (LaBrea's) SDLM in-person, and I was surprised at its size. I asked if it was grafted, and Joe said he didn't think so...but then we noticed what looked like a gnarled-over bud-union. In any case, his plant is very mature and doing fabulously. It also has an interesting pink sport on one branch which differs from others I've seen. It might be 'Capt. Dyel', but it could also be something unique. :-) ~Christopher |
Here is a link that might be useful: A pic of LaBrea's SDLM on HelpMeFind
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- Posted by jaspermplants 9 az (My Page) on Wed, Oct 30, 13 at 14:58
| Mine was 5-6 feet tall and about 4 ft wide. I wouldn't call her a small rose. I'd had her in the ground probably 5-6 years so she was mature. For some reason she died over the summer. I think the reason is I had dug around her roots trying to get rid of the evil bermuda grass. She had always been healthy and beautiful. I just got a new one from ARE since I cannot do without her. She was just planted in a better spot (prime location, she deserves it). She is great in a desert climate. |
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- Posted by desertgarden561 9/SZ11 -Las Vegas, N (My Page) on Wed, Oct 30, 13 at 15:20
| Jaspermplants, Was yours grafted or own root? If yours was own root, I will need to re-measure .... Lynn |
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| Lynn, Ogrose has a SDLM I have seen that was easily 5-6' tall. It may have just been that it was reaching for sun, but it was still capable of a nicely sized shrub. Not dwarf by any means. Josh |
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| Interesting how much difference one more zone can make. My zone 6 Mystic Beauty (3-4 years old) is only about 3 ft wide and 2.5 ft tall. Which has nothing to do with what you are asking here--I was just surprised at the zonal difference. Wonderful rose, regardless. Kate |
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- Posted by jaspermplants 9 az (My Page) on Wed, Oct 30, 13 at 20:04
| Lynn, it was own root, from Antique Rose Emporium. You could probably keep it smaller and I did trim it down to 3-4 feet or so every couple years. It seemed like it wanted to be big though. |
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- Posted by desertgarden561 9a/SZ11 -Las Vegas, (My Page) on Wed, Oct 30, 13 at 23:38
| Thank you all for the information. I am thinking of flanking SDLM with Mme. Cornelissen. Jaspermplants, have you grown any of the SDLM sports? Lynn |
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| Mine, which is own-root and between 3 and 4 years old is about 3 feet tall and 4 feet wide. My suspicion is that it grows taller in a more humid climate than mine, without the stress of drought and reflected heat from lots of hardscape. Nevertheless, it's been healthy almost all the time and almost never out of bloom. It does best in the heat with shade in the latter part of the day. Kronprinzessin Viktoria nearby is smaller as is Mme. Cornelissen. Ingrid |
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- Posted by jaspermplants 9 az (My Page) on Thu, Oct 31, 13 at 11:52
| Lynn, I don't grow any SDLM sports although I've been eyeing Kronprincess... I'm glad to hear she's a little smaller. |
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| My SDLM remained a scrawny one or two cane 2.5' tall plant for about 30 years then we had an extraordinarily wet/rainy Spring over several months and now it is about 4' tall with more canes. Although not bushy, it is improving with more canes each year. Go figure. Cath |
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| Kinda off-topic, but I think the lines between some of the Bourbons and the Teas are very blurred, and SDLM is a case in point. True, it was bred from a Bourbon crossed with a Tea, but so many Teas (and a few Bourbons) had similar parentage. I wonder why SDLM was called a Bourbon while others are called Teas -- its flowers are very Tea-like in shape, its dislike of severe pruning is very Tea-like, and its blooming pattern is very Tea-like. I mean, think about the earliest Teas from China, and think of the big and burly Teas that came later. Where did they get such an impressive gain in stature? From Bourbon heritage. 'Adam', often incorrectly cited as the first Tea bred in Europe, was bred from 'Hume's Blush' and 'Rose Edouard'. Those robust-caned Teas aren't that way because of extra infusions of 'R. gigantea'. Those are Bourbon canes with extra "bloom at every point" genes from the older Teas. And as a little reminder of their mixed heritage, there are some triploid Teas still with us ('Papa Gontier' and 'Lady Hillingdon' come to mind). And perhaps that explains the discrepancy in size for SDLM and her sports in colder areas -- Teas hardy enough for zone 6 would also not get as big as they would in zones 7 through 9. I notice from watching the "classic" Bourbons grow that they push out a new cane, and it just keeps growing and growing before it starts to flower and branch off. Chinas and Teas, however, don't do that. They grow a little, branch and flower, grow a little more, branch and flower, etc. It seems that the Bourbon heritage in the larger Teas allows for more substantial canes to form, but they still follow the "grow a little, branch and flower" pattern that makes them slow-growing where Winter cuts them back every year -- unlike the Bourbons, which don't seem to flower until the cane has finished growing, so they can more quickly build in size. Just some observations I've been making.....carry on. :-) ~Christopher |
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