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| I have read Paul Barden's account of how this rose was "something different" from the conventional 'Quatre Saisons', and was keeping an eye out on Heirloom's website for when it becomes available again (which hasn't happened....). Then I noticed that the page for it at Heirloom changed, saying it's "once-flowering" about a year ago. And when they changed their website again recently, the picture for the rose is now the same as for 'Quatre Saisons', which seems odd, since the previous picture didn't look at all like the same rose. So....for anyone out there who has grown this rose, I have a few questions. Does it repeat for you? How similar is it to "Pickering Four Seasons" or 'Rose du Roi' (either "of commerce" or "original")? Is it actually distinct, or is it identical to one of these? And finally, if it turns out that Heirloom has quietly removed this rose from propagation, would anyone be willing to trade some cuttings in Spring? :-) ~Christopher |
Here is a link that might be useful: Heirloom's 'Rosa Damascena Semperflorens'
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by bellegallica_zone9 9 (My Page) on Mon, Oct 6, 14 at 16:54
| Early in my rose days I was interested in the Damasks, and I sort of remember what you're talking about, but I never ordered it, so I can't help you there. Because of the "semperflorens" I did always assume that it was Autumn Damask, which I see now they have put in parentheses after the Latin name. Technically it should repeat if it's Autumn Damask. I do remember Vintage having both Summer Damask and Autumn Damask and saying that they were identical except for the fact that Autumn Damask bloomed again in the fall. So maybe what Heirloom has is the Summer one? Just speculating... |
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- Posted by bellegallica_zone9 9 (My Page) on Mon, Oct 6, 14 at 17:45
| P.S. I used the wayback machine website to take a look at what they were offering in the past. It's really confusing. In 2005 the catalog had something they called Then in 2011 they had both at the same time: My guess is that if they were different, they had two different kinds of damasks and couldn't decide what they were. Or they couldn't decide which synonym was the most appealing? Pickering Four Seasons and Rose du Roi, from what I've read, are both definitely Damask Perpetuals/Portlands and wouldn't be described as "spreading bushes with grey-green foilage." ???? |
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| OK, I'm posting the link to the description for 'Rosa damascena semperflorens' from Paul Barden's website. Note the pic of the bloom, and how it differs from the one currently shown on Heirloom's website. This is the rose to which I'm referring, NOT the 'Quatre Saisons' aka 'R. damascena bifera' we know as simply a repeat-blooming Damask. I'm hoping that Paul chimes in on this, and if he has thoughts about if it's identical to either "Pickering Four Seasons" or 'Rose du Roi' (either "of commerce", or Vintage Gardens' "original"). I seem to remember SOMEONE else on this forum mentioning that he/she grows/grew it. :-) ~Christopher |
Here is a link that might be useful: 'Rosa damascena semperflorens' at Paul Barden's website
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| OK, here's where I saw 'Rosa damascena semperflorens' mentioned -- the post about Damasks and Portlands from earlier this year. If you scroll down a few posts, note the pic by fogrose (Diane). :-) ~Christopher |
Here is a link that might be useful: Damasks & Portlands: photos and comments to share?
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- Posted by bellegallica_zone9 9 (My Page) on Tue, Oct 7, 14 at 0:59
| Yes, I see what you mean. So at one point they were selling a Portland type rose as R. damascena semperflorens. My vote goes to Pickering Four Seasons. Paul grew Rose du Roi so it seems like he would have known if it was that or not. (The tangy,acrid scent he detected might be a clue.) But, like you said, you would need someone who has grown both to say for sure. But it also seems like they were waffling back and forth between several synonyms for Autumn Damask, so that it would have been difficult to tell what you were getting without asking first.
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| I never found the 'semperflorens' in stock, but that picture does look a lot like "Pickering Four Seasons." If the 'semperflorens' smells like a Portland, but is mostly covered in Gallica bristles, with few thorns and simple, Gallica-type sepals, I'd call it a tentative match. "Pickering" looks very much like (Gallica x The Portland Rose) x self, and the Damask ancestry really only comes through in the leaf shape, the bloom, and (to a lesser degree) the hip shape. Growth habit is also very Gallica. |
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