Looks like rootstock has taken over. the 10-12" stem was what was left of the original plant ('Forty Niner'). The rootstock is likely 'Dr Huey'.

Confused. What is Dr Huey? The 12 inch stems grew off of these tremendous stalks. 3 years ago, I crossed my fingers and cut the bush back to knee high. It came back the same as now.

Many roses are grafted onto a harder type of rose. Dr. Huey is one of the rootstocks frequently used. However, Dr. Huey has red flowers and does not shoot up 12' canes. I find no rose called Forty-Niner that meets your description. I would guess you have either Mermaid or Fortune's Double Yellow. Use the link below to check these out to see if either matches your rose. Off hand, I cant tell you why it didn't bloom this year. Many roses bloom only in the spring. If you can identify the rose, we might be able to give you better advise. http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/roses.php

Oh YES. Dr. Huey definitely can make 12-ft. canes. He's a rambler, after all.

Huey remains the most popular commercial rootstock because it is widely-adaptable. But as a garden rose, it has immense problems.

AND since it is spring-blooming only, if it is pruned in the winter/early spring, you will get no blooms at all from it.

You can see 'Dr. Huey' at:
http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.1550

Forty-Niner is a 1949 Hybrid Tea Rose. It would grow upright, and would repeat. You can see it at:
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.2811

If your rose is blooming semi-double and dark maroon red -- it is Dr. Huey. If it is winter-pruned, and subsequently does not bloom at all, it is Dr. Huey.

Jeri in Coastal Ventura Co., SoCal

Dr Huey is the rose variety used as rootstock. It's notorious for taking over with the least bit of provocation...or opportunity. If there's any of the actual Fortyniner left, you MIGHT be able to salvage it. You will have to identify/differentiate it from the long canes, which will all be Dr Huey. There will be differences in the leaves, and the canes/thorns. Don't remove anything this Fall. It will not only force the plant into new growth too late to harden off before winter, plus you might as well let the good Dr store as much nutrition as possible in the roots. Next Spring, all the Dr Huey will have to be removed, as low down the plant as possible. Again, leave only the Fortyniner cane(s). Hopefully it will put on new growth. HOWEVER, you will now and forevermore be battling new suckers and sprouts of Dr Huey. Every time one rears its head, you'll need to PULL, not cut, it off below ground where it joins the trunk or main root.

In my personal experience, it's a losing battle. Either resign yourself to keeping a red once-bloomer (which is lovely... until it defoliates from disease, lol), or find another yellow rose you like and replace it. Trust me, you'll save yourself much frustration, lol.

John

Right on target, John.

Jeri

The Hybrid Tea 'Forty-niner' is a dark pink rose, so whatever is blooming (or-this past year- NOT blooming) is likely to be rootstock.

If the blooms up until this past year were pale yellow, 'Dr Huey' is unlikely to be the rootstock. 'Fortuniana' is often used in the South, though, and could be considered 'pale yellow' by some (though I would say cream-colored, myself).
Oh, but I just re-read the original post and see that the rose has monster thorns, so it's NOT 'Fortuniana'...

I don't know much about rootstocks but I do know that 'Dr Huey' isn't pale yellow, and HMF tells me that 'Forty-niner' isn't either.

If you like the pale yellow rootstock rose, it may have just had some trouble blooming after the harsh winter we had, and may do fine next year. If you'd like to replace the yellow-flowered rootstock rose with 'Forty-niner' or just have them both, that Hybrid Tea is still available commercially from Burlington Roses in California and Roses Unlimited in South Carolina.

I'm including a link to info about 'Forty-niner' so you can see what it looks like, and to get ordering info. I think it's quite pretty, so it's nice that it's still available...

Good luck,
Virginia

Off to view the eclipse!

Here is a link that might be useful: Info about the HT 'Forty-Niner'

This post was edited by vmr423 on Wed, Oct 8, 14 at 6:08

Jeri,
Location, location. My Dr. Hueys have never shot off 12' canes. Currently, I have two; one as rootstock on Zephy and one by itself, a survivor from the previous owner's garden, which I keep as a demo. 6' plus suckers is about the most I get in a season on either. I let the one on Zephy bloom because the first year it happened--accidentally--the colors were so pretty together that now I wait to cut Huey back until after it has bloomed.

Also, Aniston may not have rootstock at all. Her description of long canes, yellow flowers, and mighty thorns brings Mermaid straight to mind.

Does your yellow rose only bloom once in the spring or does it bloom off and on all summer long? Did you have to prune it back severely this spring because of the bad winter last year? You say this rose grows these long canes every year? If these long canes are coming off of the thick canes at the big knot on the bottom (called the graft) then they are probably not the root stock, whatever that may be. If they are coming up from the ground around and below that graft area then they would more likely be root stock. There is a fragrant yellow rose called Forty Heroes. But it's a hybrid tea not a climber. The growth habit in this picture really looks like some kind of climber. If you have any photos of the blooms please post them to help us ID the rose.

AnistonsMema said : "... 40 year old rose bush in my yard. My husband thinks it is called a 49er. Last 2 years it bloomed with beautiful, fragrant pale yellow blooms..."

Any chance that the rose is Sutter's Gold, climbing? I have no idea if it is thorny, but it is supposed to be golden yellow with a strong fragrance. Certainly the date (1950) would fit, and I can see the relation between 49er and Sutter's Gold.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sutter's Gold on HMFRoses

If it is not rootstock, then those long lanky canes look kinda like Golden Showers to me. I used to let my GS "ramble" on its own with no support--the canes looked just like the ones in the picture. GS bloomed bloomed several times a season, especially if I remembered to give it extra water. It would open brighter yellow, but fade rather quickly to a lighter yellow.

But, of course, Golden Showers has nothing to do with California gold rushes--though in mythology, the "shower of gold" coming out of the sky as Zeus impregnated a poor captive woman was often described as shining like a pile of golden coins.

If it is the rambler/climber Golden Showers, there is nothing you can do about those long canes. That is its normal form.

Kate

It might help to know where you're located, AnistonsMema. If that is a rose that used to be rootstock for 'Forty-Niner', some folks here will know what was a likely choice for your area 40 years ago.

You say you pruned it knee-high 3 years ago, and it bloomed with yellow flowers for the next two years and not at all this year? Were the flowers prior to the pruning 3 years ago the same as they were afterwards?

If the rose always had the same yellow flowers, probably it isn't rootstock, but is what was originally planted. If there used to be other roses near this one, perhaps 'Forty-Niner' was another rose in the garden, but that was the only name he remembers?

With a little more information, I think someone can help you figure out what's going on with your rose.

Virginia

Oh my! I have a lot to learn about roses and I LOVE it ! This Rose bush is special to our family. It is wonderful to receive all if your help to identify my problem. Let me clarify. The rose bloom was closer to a Creamy white with a hint of red. I wish that I had taken a picture but I immediately cut them for a beautiful arrangement in the kitchen! The base of this bush is huge! Several knarly root trunks that are 3-4 inches in diameter. I cut it back in the winter/ early spring thinking that would deter the 12 foot canes. We live in central North Carolina with a somewhat mild climate. When should I cut this back or not at all? I will check out the links provided and hope to identify. Thank you SOOOO much.

If that rose were mine, I would stop trying to make it smaller by cutting it back - it obviously is a climbing rose, and you cannot turn it into a small bush by cutting it back, as you have discovered. If you train the long canes as horizontally as you can, by tying them up to that wall, it will bloom way more next year. Then take pictures of the blooms, the buds, the thorns, and the leaves, and post them on here. Someone will then be able to help you identify it, and you will know exactly what kind of rose it is, which will help you find out how to take care of it.

Jackie

Most roses do best when pruned in the early spring. But as others have said, if it's a climber no amount of pruning will keep it small and bushy. It wants to climb! Instead of pruning it why not try training it out more sideways and see what it does next spring. You may be very surprised at how much bloom you get. You can use some stakes in the ground this fall and gently bend those long canes and tie them to the stakes in a sort of fan shape. Be careful not to break them. If they are very stiff you may have to wait until new, softer canes start next spring to really fan them outward.

On the web site you recommended, my husband and I looked at pages of climbing white to yellow to cream roses . It is a Peace Climber. Those pictures matched the blooms that we had. Now what am I doing wrong as to why it didn't bloom this year. How do I care for this magnificent plant.

Did you cut it back this past winter? Before or after the Polar Vortex zapped so many roses nationwide?

My guess is that it didn't bloom this year due to a combination of being pruned before blooming and/or maybe it was also stressed from the cold. If it was cold here in coastal SC, I know it was cold up there, also!

If you tie up the canes to train it as the climber it needs to be, and if we have a milder winter this year, I suspect you'll see your beautiful 'Climbing Peace' looking better than ever next year.

Good luck,
Virginia

OK, you have identified it as Cl Peace - congratulations! That is a great rose. Also, it was introduced just at the end of WWII in this country, so your history with it makes sense.

I had a Cl Peace which grew in our garden for 40+ years (eventually succumbed to too much shade - I lost the original plant, but managed to root a cutting and planted that in full sun). In my experience Cl Peace HATES to be hard pruned - my gardener did that to ours, and it did not bloom for 2 years. Many climbing roses refuse to bloom until they get as tall or large as they think they are "supposed" to. Until then, they put all of their energy into growing, not blooming. If they are frustrated in this endeavor by being hard pruned, they start over again trying to get tall/big. You cannot trick them.

Having said that, of course it is ALWAYS a good idea to cut off dead canes - such as those which might die over a very cold winter. It is the live canes that should be left alone except to be trained horizontally.

If you don't have a horribly cold winter again, your rose should put on a nice display next Spring - please post pictures on here

So, I would tie the canes as horizontally as you can (you could purchase a trellis and put the trellis between the rose and that building), leave it alone (a little rose food would be appreciated - get one with no other stuff in it, just food, and follow the directions.

Jackie

I agree with Jackie. Get it spread out on a trellis for this winter. You want to secure those long canes so they won't whip around in the wind and get damaged. Don't prune it now, just fertilize it and keep it watered until winter. In the spring only prune off any dead wood. Let it grow some laterals and see if it blooms. If you don't have to prune it severely due to a bad winter again it should bloom nicely for you!

Since this is a 40 year old Peace at some point I may just beg a few cuttings off you, lol! Everyone says the older ones have better color than the newer clones do.

That bloom certainly looks like Peace to me, not typical of Spring blooms, of course, but the colors are correct, and given the time of year it looks fine. The foliage looks right too - large very dark mostly shiny leaves.

Climbing roses which are not tied horizontally tend to produce ONE bloom at the top of the tall canes, which it sounds like yours did. That is why it is good to tie it sideways - then it will produce laterals all along the cane which will produce blooms. Can't wait to see pictures of your rose when it is blooming next Spring!

Jackie

One word of caution: I have heard on more than one occasion that Climbing Peace is not a strong bloomer.

On the other hand, it is one of the most beautiful roses in existence, in my opinion.

Kate

Cl Peace is not a strong repeat bloomer, but it will cover itself with bloom during May if the canes are trained semi-horizontally.

Hello again ! Please take a look at the attached pictures of our Peace. As best as we knew how, my husband and I made this 8 ft high trellis and carefully bent the runners into position. Some were accidentally broken so I trimmed those back. Do you all (ya'll, since I am from the south!) think this will work? I plan to fertilize this weekend as you suggested. Thanks again for your advice.

Hi there, AnistonsMema!

Have only just seen this thread and followed your story with much interest - I'm sure others will have (probably much better informed) comments, but FWIW, I'll put in my thoughts...
You've done a great job of tidying up and spreading those canes - your plant looks happier already!
In my opinion though, you will need to have canes that run even more horizontally, from lower down, if you want to encourage the plant to make laterals (=those shorter, flower-bearing stems that come off the main canes) at eye level and below, where you can conveniently admire them! If this is the furthest they'll go in a downward direction, then, as seil said, wait for the new, softer canes and do it with those.

You and your husband have certainly made a very nice, neat-looking structure around it...but I do have some concerns as to how well this design will work in practice.
Ideally, I would have put in 2 tall posts where the rear 2 of your structure are, then simply stretched horizontal wires between them, about 1ft apart, from top to bottom. Alternatively, for a more decorative look, you could attach lattice (similar to what you currently have over the top and top sides) between the posts. Or wooden or metal rails (eg rebar) etc - whatever you like the look of - with similar spacing to the wire. Any of these options would provide the sort of places you'll need to tie in the new canes in a horizontal-ish pattern - to make this clearer, there should be plenty of photos, diagrams, tutorials, etc showing a number of alternative ways to do this; I expect others will know the links to good websites, videos, etc for this, or just try googling 'how to train climbing roses' to get some ideas.
You could try attaching wires across the back of your structure as described, and possibly along the sides below the existing lattice.
I can't quite see in your photo what's happening overhead - is there lattice right across the top, forming a 'roof', or a bit around the edges?
I'm slightly concerned about this adding to the existing amount of shade, since it's another factor that discourages roses from blooming, and encourages long, spindly sunlight-seeking arms. Does the sun come round and give this spot around 6hrs or more of direct light?
Usually with a pergola or arbour-like structure like this, a climbing rose would be planted at the side or corner, on the outside, where it can get maximum light and all-the-way-from-ground-up support as needed. This also allows for a seat or decorative object or walk-through space underneath, with the prickly rose stems kept out of the way. Here the only 'feature' on display in the middle will be the 'trunks' and lower canes, which may not look terribly attractive. Or I could be wrong! Since it looks like wanting to make some very long canes, it may just work to have them arch up and over the top and cascading down the sides as they are now, but there may still be that visually rather dull bit in the middle...I don't know if this is making any sort of sense to you!
If the posts are not actually concreted in, I wonder if it might not be possible to move the whole thing forward about a foot, to allow room for a bench, etc.? Just a thought...
Please don't let any of this discourage you! Others may well disagree with me, and see that it's perfectly fine as it is; and, fortunately, there's rarely only one 'proper' way of doing a thing anyway.
Your rose looks happy and healthy to me, and, from the looks of that magnificent flower, whatever you end up doing with it, your efforts will be well rewarded. What a gorgeous rose! I'm not usually keen on Modern Roses, but in this case, I think I may have to make an exception!

Comtesse :¬)

Just did a quick bit of research on Climbing Peace. If you look on the plain old 'Roses' Forum here on GardenWeb and search for a thread entitled 'Peace Rose Dud?' or Climbing Peace Dud' (sorry, I've already forgotten what it was exactly), you'll find a very interesting discussion on this rose.

It seems that the key to the problems with little or no bloom that many people find with Climbing Peace, is that it is one of those roses that only blooms on second-year and older canes. So, if you chop the whole plant down short, or even just shorten the most recent canes, it will only produce green leafy canes that year with no flowering laterals. If I've understood you correctly, that would tie in with what you experienced after you cut it down to knee-high, and did you perhaps try and prune it by shortening it back in the following years..?

Don't worry - you won't have done it any harm, and if you now leave those canes that came up early last year intact, they should put out laterals that will bloom this year. As I understand it, with this sort of rose, pruning should be like for a rambler: i.e. cut out right at the bottom, all dead/dying, diseased and crossing (ie rubbing against another) canes, or any that are hopelessly growing in the wrong direction for what you want. Then, if you want to keep the whole plant reasonably compact and fresh, you can also cut out any older-than-last-year's flowering-lateral-producing canes as well - whatever looks tiredest. I THINK you'll find all the new growth will continue to come each year from the base of the plant, rather than branching off from existing canes, so the plant will be constantly refreshing itself - your job is just to clear out the old, so the plant doesn't waste too much potential bloom-producing energy on the old canes. Other than that, I think you can just deadhead the spent blooms, if you wish to, to encourage more blooms, but otherwise leave the current laterals alone. (??)

The other main thing with Climbing Peace is that she is apparently, a very greedy girl - so don't hold back on the feeding schedule (though don't be tempted to exceed recommended doses if you're using the packaged, chemical kind) Someone on that thread also recommends an additional mulch of stable manure once or twice a year - can't remember exactly, so do have a look.

I won't try and go any further than this, and embarrass myself and everyone else with the true depths of my ignorance on the subject! - I'm very confident others will be able to correct and/or add to what I've suggested...

Hope it's of some help, anyway,

Comtesse
;¬)

Congrats on doing all of that work, and cleaning up the rose. Since you have already built this structure, here are my thoughts:

1) I am also concerned about the lattice making shade - roses HATE shade. I would take it off, and replace it where you think you need to with some wires.

2) Can any of those canes (without cutting them much - I agree that Cl Peace blooms on "old wood" - which means you will only get flowers on canes which have been there more than one season) be untied and trained more horizontally? Perhaps to the wooden cross pieces which are halfway up the structure? If they are too stiff to do that without breaking them, leave them alone of course. Look for new canes coming up this year and try to train them to those cross pieces when the canes are still pliable.

3) Food - I would use rose food (not some product that contains poisons as well), and be sure to follow the directions.

4) Base of the rose - it is hard to see in the pic, but it looks as if there are some stubs of old canes which have been cut off sticking out of the base. These need to be cut off flush with the roundish lump of the base - that way it will make room for new canes to emerge.

5) Mulch - I cannot see if you have put mulch around the rose. You should - keep it at least 6 inches away from the base, but spread it about 2 inches deep over the dirt all around the rose. You are in zone 8, which is a warm zone. This will keep the soil moisture in in the Summer.

Since you are in zone 8, this rose will be blooming in a few months! Please post pictures of it then - this is so exciting - I love it when people save older roses.

Jackie

I am so excited and impressed with the wonderful advice each of you have given. On top of the arbor is an 18 inch gap between the lattice. Hopefully this will allow the sunshine needed. This end of our house gets morning sun until around 2 pm. Yes I definitely need to mulch. Had not thought about this so thank you for the reminder.
Is there any way to encourage young canes from the bottom? Can you score the main cane to encourage a growth? Most of these canes are an inch in diameter and stiff as wood. I held my breath bending them down from their 25 foot height. Then I said a prayer for God to take over. LOL ( seriously, I did. I pray for all of our plants.)
I will add some wire to the bottom for training new growth horizontally

No, do not score the main canes - that will just let in disease. With food and light, this rose should bloom. Don't worry if it does not bloom much this coming Spring - Cl Peace hates to be hard pruned, and my old one took 2 years to recuperate from that.

Jackie

I had to move some roses off a fence due to them being trimmed by the neighbors grass cutter guy. To do that I got a few 4x4x10’ pressure treated posts, cut them in half, and installed them 2 ft deep. I drilled a hole about an inch down from the top in each post. Ran a heave gauge wire through the holes and then tightened everything up. As the post turn from blond color to gray color they are going to hard to see. You could do the same with new growth. Your present structure appears to not be down in the ground so a good wind storm may do a number on your rose plant. Anyhow, you now have one more idea to consider.

I really do feel that lattice has to go - where it is, it's only blocking light which will be needed for your rose to do its best (especially since it's morning sun only there), and as far as I can see, it's going to get in the way of the canes rather than providing useable support ...but, here's a thought:
If you're wanting to keep the lattice cos it's kinda purrrty, (that's my sad attempt at southern US accent!), how about

Whip off the 2 overhead pieces and reattach them along the back between the posts; evenly spaced with one nearer the bottom and one nearer the top with maybe a 1 -2 1/2ft gap in between; then take off the side sections and reattach them lower down, between the side rails and the ground, with a gap top and bottom, like a little fence.

I think that would be a much more practical/useable arrangement, but would still look cute. You can still add wires as needed; these shouldn't really show much once she's leafed out and, hopefully, gloriously blooming!
Even cuter, if you happened to feel like painting the whole thing white to match the lattice, or another colour that would tone in with those lovely blooms, its leaves, and/or your garden/house exterior scheme; probably a good time to do it now, too, before she bursts into spring growth.

New canes should come on their own, as Jackie advises, with food and space and sunlight, oh and water as needed once she breaks dormancy.

Yes, do please keep us all posted of Peace's Progress!

Good luck deciding, and doing,

Comtesse :¬)

What Comtesse said.

Jackie