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Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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Posted by lerosier3 WA z8 (My Page) on Fri, Oct 30, 09 at 19:25
In the 1940's and continuing until the mid 1950's there was a fairly large group of spinosissima roses hybridized in Canada. I have only been able to find two - Suzanne which was hybridized by Dr. Frank L. Skinner and introduced in 1950 and Louis Riel a more recent introduction by Zabrowski in 1996. There were quite a few others hybridized in Canada by him and others as well. They are not available anywhere. If you were me how would you proceed on trying to get them.
There was also an earlier group of spinosissima hybrids hybridized by Isabella Preston in the 1930's. They were mostly named after Canadian Indian tribes. I am also interested in these.
Thus far I have been able to obtain 2 Canadian spinosissimas: Louis Riel and Suzanne. I would like to get as many as possible. Any assistance would be very welcome. |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| I just checked the article on Frank L. Skinner in the latest issue of the journal of the Swedish Rose Society. His roses are of great interest to Swedish rose growers because of our climate that is roughly similar to that of Canada. 'Haidee' is available from the Danish nursery Rosenposten that does export. 'Suzanne' is the only other spinosissima mentioned as being available in Scandinavia. You may check Loubert in France for other varieties. I haven't, but their selection is very large. I have been very pleased with them. BTW, my only Skinner rose is the blanda hybrid 'Betty Bland' and I also have 'Louis Riel'. Skinner's rugosas are more common over here. We are hoping that some Swedish nursery will import the climber 'Isabella Skinner'. Marianne in Sweden |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| I have Isabella Skinner. Would you like to trade cuttings? I would take any Hybrid spinosissima that I don't have. |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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Have you checked cornhillnursery.com
They sell several varieties by Skinner, Wallace, and Simonet. |
Here is a link that might be useful: corn hill
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| lerosier, When vintage had one of its sales, I picked up all of the different spinossissimas they had available. I LOVE this group of roses. I'm following this thread with great interest. Robert |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| Thank you lerosier, but I don't have any Canadian spinosissimas except Louis Riel. I have only a few of this class, all from Scotland, Finland, Germany and Denmark. |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| lerosier3, how lax are Isabella Skinner's canes? How disease resistant is it? How long do the canes grow? |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| I have Carmenetta which looks very much like my Glauca but it's tall an Narrow where my glauca is bushy. Theres a much later Canadian hybrid spinosissima Kakwa which is truly beautiful when in full bloom. |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| A friend forwarded this posting to me so I've registered with Garden Web. I grow a number of R. spinosissima hybrids in Manitoba. Among those that I have are varieties originated by Frank Skinner, Robert Simonet, Percy Wright, Robert Erskine, Wil Godfrey and John Wallace as well as Stan Zubrowski's Louis Riel. These are mostly large very hardy shrubs. Some produce repeat bloom in August in my location. Isabella Skinner has lax thornless canes which grow to about 6' here but I'm sure might be much taller in a milder climate. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Frank Skinner Arboretum
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| I just purchased my Isabella Skinner so am not sure how large it will get but was told 10' to 12' canes could be expected. I purchased it to plant in the center of a circular bed surrounded by Blanc Double de Colbert. |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| to: treemangardner I would like to get either cuttings or suckers of the spinosissima roses you have that I do not. Can we work something out? Do you have any idea how I might obtain the earlier spinossimas hybridized by Isabella Preston? I have a half acre that I can devote to pimpinellifoliae. At present I have about 50. |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| lerosier3, do please be aware that treemangardner is in another country. Bringing in roses from another country makes you subject to US plant quarantine laws. That isn't necessarily a problem, but you need to get an import permit from the USDA. Doing so is not difficult, but if you want to get cuttings from Canada (or any other foreign country) you need to do that. It's done so that unexpected problems (such as, for example, unknown rose virus diseases we don't yet have that other countries do) can be accounted for and eliminated before they spread to the rest of the USA. Canada's pests are largely the same as ours, so you are especially unlikely to have a problem with a Canadian importation, but even so, every once in a while a new pest appears in Canada that isn't in the USA (& vice versa). That's why plant quarantine laws exist (on both sides of the border). |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| That's a very impressive collection of spinosissimas, lerosier3. Do you happen to have one called Lady Hamilton? HMF lists it as being sold by the Heritage Rosarium but I've contacted the owner for a picture of it to no avail. I believe the Finns are the foremost growers of spinosissimas today and have preserved many varieties lost elsewhere. They got them from the firm Regel & Kesselring, German nurserymen in St. Petersburg when Finland was a Grand Duchy under the Tsar of Russia. Unfortunately, the original names are also lost and the roses are renamed and given Finnish names. "Ruskela" is a light pink rose that one Finnish expert, the late Aila Korhonen, believed may be 'Lady Hamilton'. HMF has pictures of "Ruskela" but not of Lady Hamilton. If you grow Lady Hamilton, could you try to compare it to Ruskela from the HMF photos? |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| lerosier, if you would like to know a little about roses in Finland, and their spinosissimas in particular, the article by Peter Joy, expatriate Brit, may be of interest. Marianne in Sweden |
Here is a link that might be useful: Roses in Finland
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| To import from Canada you need an agriculture sanitary permit you don't need an import permit. From most other countries you need both the import and photosanitary permits and a nematode free certificate. There are also some countries such as Australia, Italy and I believe Bulgaria that you cannot import roses from period. Although I don't understand why you can't import from Italy when you can import from France roses which originated in Italy. I plan on importing about 30 pimpinellifoliae from Denmark next year. It looks like I will also need to find a rose grower in Finland the following year to get Finnish spinosissimas. I also hope to import from Loubert in France but can only afford to import once a year. Incidently I use the expansive defination of pimpinellifoliae, as contrasted with the sub-group pimpinellifolia, which includes Hybrid foetidas, sericeas, xanthinas, ecaes, hugonis, harisoniis, hemisphericas, primula, persicas and pernetianas in the collection. As time goes on spinosissimas will make up more and more of the collection as there have been hundreds of them in commerce over the years which there have only been a few of most of the other types. Believe it or not until I read Shepherd's book on the history of roses I didn't realize that most the roses I am most interested in fall into this category. |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| If you are going to go whole-hog into spins, you should probably be aware that this is one of the most mid-identified groups of roses in existence. The same rose can be found under several names, different roses go about under the same name - it's very confusing, and potentially very frustrating for someone going to extremes to get 'different' cultivars. There have been periodic efforts by various Canadians to try to reassemble as much of Isabella Preston's work as possible. Last I heard, several of her roses were thought to only exist in Europe. |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| One of the reasons I am going after spinosissimas is that there are so many misidentified roses in the group and many roses have several names and some of them have several varieties under the same name such as the several varities named Mary Queen of Scots. Hopefully Peter Boyd's book will clear up some of the misinformation. For this reason I like to get the same variety from several sources and see if they are really the same. The main reason I am collecting them is that I really like them and their cousins. |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| I have a follow up Isabella Skinner question for anyone who feels able to answer it. I have a 3' high iron fence with roses along it. I am still happily gathering information on lax pink climbers and Isabella apparently is that, plus very hardy, plus a steady rebloomer, and fragrant and thornless, too! Very cool! Are its canes lax enough to stay in bounds if trained along a fence only 3' high, or would it constantly fight to send out upright laterals so it could get much higher? |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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- Posted by riku Z3 Canada (My Page) on
Fri, Nov 6, 09 at 0:30
Your quest in my opinion needs to include Prairie Peace, unfortunately not in the States as far as I know and the only Canadian grower does not export. Only apricot one I am aware of.
ALTAI HYBRID - BEAUTY OF LEAFLAND X HAZELDEAN |
Here is a link that might be useful: erskine
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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To lerosier 3
You can contact me through the website. It won't come directly to me, but will be forwarded. I don't have any spinosissima's hybridized by Isabella Preston, only Carmanetta which is a R. glauca hybrid. I can forward your request to others but I think these are largely lost in Canada. I think I can arrange for a phyto to ship to the US |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| Riku's suggestion is seconded. There are a lot of hardy roses with "Prairie" as part of the total rose name. And sometimes we tend to lump them together as just another variation of the same old hardy rose theme. But the mature spinosissima hybrid "Praire Peace" (Beauty of Leafland X Hazeldean) in full bloom will stop you in your tracks - a testimony to Robert Erskine, a breeder not recognized in his time. In my estimation, this rose is in a class by itself. A special thanks to Sheila and Madeline Holmes who have graciously supplied rose growers with this and other spinosissimas Robert developed - and kept his life story alive. Lerosier, it sounds as if you will have quite the collection - keep us posted and I'd love to see it in a couple of years. Doug |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| if anyone can provide a U.S. source for prairie peace, i would be forever in your debt. gosh, it looks wonderful. thank you. |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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Lerosier,
It is great to see someone wanting to keep these roses going.
I have been looking for Isabella Skinner and would gladly trade cuttings or suckers if we can figure out the border problem. I have 'Butterball' a Skinner spinosissima, Beauty of Leafland and Prairie Peace from Robert Erskine and Hazeldean a yellow double spinosissima by Percy Wright. to: treemangardner
Nice to see you posting here. Where are you located and what is the source for your Canadian spinosissimas. They are not easy to find.
Leo |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| There is some conflicting information regarding spinosissimas and I don't know which is correct. A reason given for their wide distribution was that they grew from cuttings easily and early settlers took them with them when they left the eastern coast and traveled west. However some modern authorities such as Mel Hulse state that they are very difficult to impossible to grow from cuttings. Peter Boyd who has wide experience with them believes they can be propagated in winter or early spring. Which is correct? If they can be propagated by cuttings which is the best way to do so? Someone asked about Lady Hamilton. The nursery that offered them appears to be closed. I hope to be getting the Finnish version of it early next year. It would be nice to compare them. |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| I was the one who asked you about Lady Hamilton. Please be aware that there is no recognized version of this rose in Finland, only Aila Korhonens suggestion that their Ruskela might be Lady Hamilton. How do you propose to compare them? Do you mean that you have Lady Hamilton already? Sorry to hear that the Heritage Rosarium is closed. I was hoping that the owner would give me a picture of his plant of Lady Hamilton. Marianne in Sweden |
RE: Canadian hybrid spinosissima roses
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| I have a follow up Isabella Skinner question for anyone who feels able to answer it. I have a 3' high iron fence with roses along it. I am still happily gathering information on lax pink climbers and Isabella apparently is that, plus very hardy, plus a steady rebloomer, and fragrant and thornless, too! Very cool! Are its canes lax enough to stay in bounds if trained along a fence only 3' high, or would it constantly fight to send out upright laterals so it could get much higher? |
RE: Isabella Skinner disease resistance -
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| I am also curious to know if Isabella Skinner displays any resistance to black spot? |
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