I have one small area that gets full sun from 9-4 at the southwest edge of my yard. There is another area that gets "dappled sun" (more sun than shade) from 8:30-2:00 and then dappled shade from 2 on. Another bed gets full sun at the center of the bed from 11:00 - 4:00 (dappled shade at the edges of the bed) with full shade before and after.

Where do you think my roses would do best?

We had to cut down two 30' cedar elm trees due to limbs falling in the wind storms a couple of years ago; I was sick about it, but can't believe how my garden perked up with much more blooming.

Both beds with extended sun will be perfectly fine. The bed that only gets 5 hours of sun would be less ideal than the others.

It isn't necessarily the amount of sun which stresses roses but the heat. Here in Dallas we get plenty of both.

Josh

Hey, Josh and Lou, do you mind taking a look at my thread about how large roses get around here? I'm trying to be realistic about how many roses I can plant in my limited amount of full sun.

The only ones that would not swallow a person whole would be Tamora, SDLM, and Gruss an Achen.

I would put your Duchesse de Brabant in the bed that gets 5 hours of sun. It is remarkably shade tolerant and the lessened amount of sun will keep it smaller than its usual monstrous size. Do know, though, that less sunbeams less blooms even for the Duchesse.

Josh

You have gotten advice from people local to you, so my two cents is of less value than what they have told you, but it may add a dimension you can use in your decision making.

I live in a latitude further north than you and I live at a higher elevation, so even though we both live in zone 8a, the light is different up here than where you live. That's why the local advice is much better.

Also, since I live in the mountains, my night temps cool off by 40 to 50 degrees and that gives the plants a chance to rehydrate themselves during the night ... pull moisture up from the root zone to the top growth. I don't know if that is true where you live.

What I have learned about growing roses in an area of high heat (Heat zone 8), is that roses with thicker petal substance can handle more light and heat.

Since I don't have any disease pressure once the day temps hit 85 degrees and stay there or higher, I prune for foliage. That means I don't take out anything that might produce foliage. The rose will abandon what it cannot use. I have found that the roses need as much foliage as possible to stimulate the plant to pull moisture up from the root zone.

Once my roses have been in the ground for 3 to 4 years, they are much better at handling the light and the heat.

I have some roses that only look wonderful in spring and fall and pretty lousy during the summer months. That's fine with me because I love the roses and I have enough other roses that do well in the summer months.

My goal is not to strive for perfect blooms, but for a healthy plant. A healthy plant provides enough blooms to keep me happy.

I hope this helps.

Smiles,
Lyn

As the others from this area have said, Duchesse, Mrs. Dudley, Maggie, Louis, and Cramsoisi all of these can get really big; Belinda a little smaller. My Ducher and MD/MPs stay about 4x4. The others can be kept at 5x5 if that's what you need. I have a small, urban garden with the average amount of yard on the front, back and sides so I don't let anything get really huge. You said you have a small area that gets full sun. How small is small? Square feet? I'd use the estimates to find out how many you can fit into that area. You would need to decide if you want to let them expand to their fullest or maintain them at a reasonable size - a size that's not too small for their health and happiness. Those things would determine how many you put in your 'small' area. Sorry I can't be more specific.

And one more thing, while you are planing the space, you should decide if you want only roses in that spot. I prefer roses along with other plants so that I get a variety of texture and shape and color of green. But a mass of just roses can be gorgeous too. You decide what look pleases you most. Lou

The roses that have done the best are the ones behind my horse barn. They get early morning sun and full sun up until about 3pm, then the barn shades them from the brutal afternoon sun. All are doing well. I am thinking that it is not so much the full all day sun, but the ferocious heat that zaps them.

I am making more raised beds - for the Vintage roses I couldn't resist - and am going to place them where they will get some protection from the 3-6pm afternoon sun. I agree with Floridarose on this point. Now, maybe I should be mulching the roots more, and that would make a difference........but I think the intense summer heat in mid afternoon really does a number on them.

Would enjoy hearing what others have to say on this subject.
Judith

Randy

One of the things I forgot to mention in my post above ... even tho' I am not living in Texas ... is that when you are gardening in high temps, it's very important to be aware of reflected heat. I am thinking primarily of heat reflected off the side of your house or from the hardscape around your garden bed. You would simply be amazed by the difference between planting a rose near a sidewalk vs a few feet away from that sidewalk.

Of course, I learned this the hard way.

Smiles,
Lyn

Josh

I have a row of old garden roses - Mon. Tillier, Georgetown Tea, Mr. BR Cant, etc. that are just huge. I planted them about 5 years ago - watered and mulched with composted horse manure very carefully the first year - now, don't have to do a thing to them. I throw compost on them thickly a couple of times a year - they are thriving and growing like gangbusters. Am thinking this thick mulch which protects their roots in heat and cold is the main reason why they are so healthy. I used to topdress beds in spring and fall with this composted manure and my beds were great. I let that slide in recent years due to being so busy, but think I need to make time to do this again.

You are right, it's not the sun, but the heat. Since I don't have any shade, I've really tested that one ! Lol.

It was a great learning curve for me. I have found that siting a rose does make a difference. This year, I moved a couple of roses that were not thriving and they took off to become the rose I had hoped they would be.

Roses are tough. I am growing roses in a heat pit in poor soil in a climate that was new to me. I haven't killed a rose yet.

I agree, meslgh, go for it. Like me, you may end up moving a rose, but giving it the test of time before you relocate a plant really helps. You don't always have to give up on a rose that doesn't meet your hopes for the rose.

Smiles,
Lyn

My summers are less hospitable than yours in terms of heat, and during the past years gardening here, I have never lost a rose to heat. What I have lost a rose to is lack of water during the summer. I lost a Golden Celebration due to a faulty emitter on the drip line irrigation; the bush had not been receiving water at all. So I echo the importance of hydration for roses during the heat. Be sure to water as early in the morning as you can. This improves absorption and reduces the potential for fungal diseases.

I put a good layer of mulch down in early May, and have created microclimates. In certain areas with trees that have root systems that tend to go straight down and be less invasive, I strategically plant roses less heat tolerant nearby so they can get filtered sun, or the afternoon shading they require.

Lynn