If anyone can comment on how large these get in zone 5 it would be fantabulous. Also some where also chosen because they supposedly can tolerate part shade and they are marked by an asterisk. (updated choices in parenthesis)

Hybrid Foetida - Soleil d'or (Harrison Yellow)
Rugosa - Rosaraie de l'Hay *
Hybrid Musk - Buff Beauty * (Skyrocket Wilhelm)
Hybrid Spinosissima - Stanwell perpetual
Moss - Deuil de Paul Fontaine
Hybrid Moyessi - Nevada *
Gallica - Tuscany
Damask - Rose de Rescht (Ispahan)
Chinesis - Mutabilis *
Centifolia - Tour de Malakoff (The Bishop)
Bourbon - Boule de Neige (SdLM would be first choice but I hear it doesn't do well in my zone)
Alba - Felicite Parmentier * (Maiden's Blush and Maxima)
Hybrid Perpetual - Gloire de Ducher (Baron de Provost)
Polyantha - White Pet *
(Noisette - Mme Alfred Carriere)
Thanks for looking. I am excited to order before they sell out :) Oh, yeah, I have shrubs, floribunda, grandiflora, hybrid teas and Austins already well covered in the order LOL!

SCG

The only one that I can report on in my yard is Buff Beauty, and it was about 7 feet tall and maybe 4 feet wide in part shade, with long floppy canes that I wove around other roses of a similar type. It grew fine in the shade but didn't bloom nearly as much as reported by others elsewhere. I don't know if it's the location or our zone, but I didn't find it all that much of an impact rose. It died a mysterious death after about 4 years and might never have hit its stride. There are hybrid musks that impress me more in the shade, but others love this one.

I have tried Soleil d'Or, Rose de Recht, and Gloire de Ducher, all of whom have failed to overwinter in my zone 5 at least once. The last two probably didn't get established, and Gloire de Ducher seems to be holding its own this year on the second try. I suspect that Soleil d'Or wasn't hardy even with protection for me, since it completely disappeared over the winter in the fashion of true wimps for me. Mutabilis has a reputation for being marginally hardy in our zone, but Seil in zone 6 has a thriving plant and I'm planning to give it a try next year.

I only grow one or two Gallicas, but I understand they're pretty notorious for suckering. I don't know how bad Tuscany is for suckering, and using grafted plants lessens the risk, but if you have to bury the graft you might get it suckering above the graft in our colder zones. Since Gallicas tend to be pretty hardy, you might not need to bury the graft on that one. Again, I'm not your best source of information on those.

Of course, we'll want to see before and after pictures, as well as a complete progress report. Curious minds want to know!

Cynthia

Yes, I am fortunate (although I can see it is going to get very expensive) to have a large allotment, as camp would say :) My biggest problem is my property is heavily treed and I am going to have to log about 50 trees to give the roses I am getting more sun.

I might have to rethink the roses you mentioned you had problems with as I was aiming to find the hardiest of the class, if there is. I would be open to hardier suggestions if you or anyone else has any. I really don't care what color or anything the rose is although I am shying away from non-recurrent where possible. I wonder if keeping these in pots and overwintering in a controlled environment for the first year will help them get established.

I will most certainly give you progress reports and pictures. It is going to be much fun adding color to my yards.

Thanks again,

Lance

Buff Beauty is gorgeous here. I have it trained horizontally along a 3 1/2 foot high fence, a situation it loves. It fills about 11 feet of space, and could easily expand out to 15 feet only the house and a staircase get in its way. I don't allow plants to actually rest against the walls of our house. I get a magnificent flush in the spring, a decent flush in the fall and a scattered light repeat from time to time in between. I would say that it is not the heaviest repeat bloomer, but it certainly earns its space.

Rosefolly

Hybrid Foetida - Soleil d'or

Foetida in general has a reputation for severe blackspot problems in humid climates. Soleil d'Or seems to be slightly better in that I haven't seen in dead. It does have serious blackspot issues if that is a problem where you are. I wouldn't even consider planting it around here without a heavy duty spray program.

Rugosa - Rosaraie de l'Hay * IME rugosas aren't shade roses.

Hybrid Musk - Buff Beauty *
Wasn't hardy here

Hybrid Spinosissima - Stanwell perpetual
I've seen this rose in several local gardens. I have yet to see it more than 18" tall. It just never seems particularly happy, and may just want more heat than it can get here. I think mine died.

Hybrid Moyessi - Nevada *
I once had a rooted cutting that never grew up. Personally, I'm extremely fond of the species selection 'Geranium'. There is a certain amount of evidence the local highway department likes it also. They seem to have a talent for cutting things back around it, showing an unusual amount of sensitivity for DOT employees. It gets big.

Gallica - Tuscany
A messy suckerer own root. I've never had easy enough access to hardy, grafted plants like gallicas to experiment with how hardy the actual grafts are. Maybe planting high is a viable option. Maybe that will kill the graft. I really don't know.

Damask - Rose de Rescht
A nice, somewhat unusually colored flower on a thoroughly mediocre plant.

Chinesis - Mutabilis *
Nothing but a science experiment. My biggest issue with it is that Chinas don't seem to put out the big spring flush of more traditional roses, and it will never get big enough to put out more than a couple of flowers at a time. I'm not sure it ever was more than 12" in the ground. Potted, it may be 3 ft without the winter dieback.

Mad_gallica - thanks for the detailed post.

If it helps any, our springs are when we typically get rain and by May the rain is sporadic. Our summers are somewhat hot (80-100F) from June till Oct (give or take) and very, very dry. Black spot, rust and mildew, from what I can gather, are pretty much non-existent and when they occur it is generally in the early spring and/or late fall.

I might have to reconsider my plans. While it may sound strange my thoughts was to not plant the roses I selected in gardens but to plant them and build the gardens around them. Basically each class would have its own 'spot' that I would work around.

Glad I asked, I thought I had researched some "somewhat" fool proof roses.

Thanks again

Since Mad Gallica didn't get Buff Beauty to overwinter and it's only listed to zone 6 anyway, it might need protection in your zone and that's not something that sounds feasible with the extent of your plans. Some other Hybrid Musks that do well for me in part shade and are more reliably reblooming include the following:

Wilhelm - probably my favorite HM, bright crimson-red semi-double blooms all over a 6 foot upright bushy shrub and reliably hardy, blooms all summer pretty steadily

Francesca - the prettiest flower among my HMs, not a class known for the beauty of individual blooms. It's basically white for me with fluffy half-dollar sized blooms on loose canes. It's at least as wide as tall if not more so, because of the loose canes - perhaps 6 foot long canes but only 4 feet tall. It's reliably hardy for me and reblooms well but not profusely off and on through the summer.

Cornelia - very floppy canes, and mine seems to want to twine around the feet of sturdier roses or flop across a wide expanse of part-shade blooming perennials. This one has the longest canes of my HM - at least 8 feet, and I'm sure I should be trimming it back to make it bloom further down the canes, but in its location I rather like the twining and embellishment of other plants.

Among the Chinesis, Mutabilis is probably your best shot, it's just that that category of rose isn't usually very hardy. If you want to expand your variety of types of roses, you could include Madame Alfred Carriere who is technically a Noisette but is reliably cane hardy for me. She's a prolific bloomer in the spring but doesn't rebloom for me at all in my zone.

Speaking of rebloomers - since you mentioned preferring not seeking these out - you are of course aware that most Albas and Centrifolias and many Gallicas are essentially once bloomers even though you may get the occasional later bloom? There may be exceptions, but as a class that's their tendency. The good side is that you shouldn't have to worry at all about hardiness on those.

Cynthia

Skyrocket (Wilhelm) was on my short list and I am going to upgrade it.

From the advice here I am switching out some of my choices for 'usually' hardier roses. I will update the original post.

Yes, thanks, I am aware that they are once bloomers. It is only fair to give them a shot :) If the scent is what I hope it will be worth it.

Thanks for the tip on the noisette. I will add it to my list.

I still plan on ordering from pickering this year and hopefully next year source out some of the beautiful suggestions Camp cites.

Again all the advice is appreciated as there is nobody I can find in the area to seek advice.

SCG

Yeah, there will be a lot of holes in my gardens but this the only way I am going to be able to see these roses. Plus, filling the gaps will be fun as I develop my 'taste' for roses :)

Most certainly will keep you updated. I will dig up last years picture and take one from this year and post in the next few days.

SCG

I am soooo close to placing the order it is exciting. Just researching size of some of the plants in my zone.

Thanks

SCG

Cath

Niptress, if you are still following I would like to ask how big MAC and Wilhelm get in your zone.

Appreciate all the help,

SCG

Thanks

SCG

Cath

Thanks again,

SCG

Sorry - it's been a busy week. In answer to your question, Wilhelm has been a pretty well-behaved upright bush about 6.5 feet high and maybe 3 feet wide. I could prune it to something a bit smaller, but he doesn't bother his neighbors for the most part, and is happy in part shade at the foot of some pines. He's not floppy like most of my other hybrid musks, which makes him play nicely with others.

MAC on the other hand is a monster, and didn't bloom till I let her sprawl at will all over everything. She's at least 8-9 feet long in the canes, but since she is very droopy and wants to be a climber even in zone 5, she's only about 3 feet tall at her highest point without support. Well, I take that back, some of her longer canes have started growing up an elderberry bush/tree about 6 feet away, and as a result are stretching up with support. I recently trimmed back a whole lot of the canes to make some room for other roses she was smothering, but they'll roar back with a vengeance in spring.

Just know that in cold zones she takes a while to get impressive. This is probably her 5th year for me and the first real "wow" year, though she bloomed some the previous years.

Have fun
Cynthia

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I am finding it quite difficult to find information on some roses for our zone. Yet with the help of you and a few others I have really been able to dial my list in a little....Now I wish you grew Mutabilis, for some strange reason I really want this rose.

I think I might plant MAC in a wire fence corner (fence will be 10' tall next year) and let her do what she wants. I will make sure I give her time to get established before I judge her.

Your experience and willingness to share is most invaluable.

Thanks,

SCG