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No More Austins for Me

Posted by ingrid_vc Z10 SoCal (My Page) on
Thu, Oct 10, 13 at 20:40

Over the years I've tried quite a few and not many have stayed for long or blown me away with their beauty. I hasten to add that, except for Young Lycidas, I haven't tried any of the most recent productions, and haven't even gotten close to trying the majority of them. Overall though, they've been fussy plants that did well in the beginning and then, for one reason or another, declined. Abraham Darby, Sister Elizabeth, Wife of Bath, Charles Darwin and Janet, all of which I loved, are in that group. Granted, my climate is difficult, hot and dry, but I still would have expected a better success rate. I'm also put off by octopus arms since I don't have the room, and Pretty Jessica, which I thought would be a good rose, has very fleeting blooms. The only two Austins that have done well and which I find beautiful are Bishop's Castle and Potter and Moore. Sophy's Rose does well for me but doesn't totally thrill me. Young Lycidas, which I bought bare-root, should be mature enough by now to judge, but it hasn't been much of a bloomer for me. Hopefully that will be different by next year.

Has anyone else tried the English Roses and found them to be less than ideal in their particular garden?

Ingrid


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: No More Austins for Me

Oh, sure Ingrid! Mind you -- the ones that are "good" for me are likely the worst for you -- given our several climates.

Back in the late 80's and early 90's, DH fell in love with Austins, and we planted them like mad. Most, then, we had to get from Hortico . . . and the multiflora rootstock probably didn't help them in our conditions. But still . . .

Others, we got from Heirloom Old Garden Roses -- though in those days, that source was fraught with peril, and some things we ordered, we NEVER received. But that's another story.

After a few years of dealing with roses that became Jolly Green Giants -- scanty of bloom -- and thirsty for water -- we lost interest in the Austins, and moved to roses that were better for us.

A very few remain, and likely always will. Golden Celebration, Prospero, The Dark Lady -- those are probably the best of them for us. We still have Cymbeline (tho it doesn't bloom well), but I think that's about it.

The Dark Lady -- after buying three that were failures (two virused and galled, one mis-named) we finally have two own-root plants that are growing and blooming well, thanks to a generous friend.

I don't usually propagate patented roses -- but in this case, I paid for three failures, and that's all I'm willing to pay.

Jeri


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Lady of Megginch & Port Sunlight were a major disappointment. They're in their 3rd year and are tiny unimpressive plants that don't look at all like the catalog photos.


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Couldn't possibly agree more, Ingrid. Yours is a conclusion I came to about a decade ago. I went ape-sh** for Austins in the very early 2000s (like almost everyone else in my rose-growing circle). A few years later as I was divesting myself and my garden of every one of them, I kept forgiving them (and myself) for not recognizing the obvious: They are ENGLISH roses.

In my environment Austins were disease magnets. In spite of poor foliar health, they grew (much to my amazement) to proportions that became totally unmanageable. In addition to all of that, I learned over time that the roses themselves (regardless of health and size) simply did not appeal to me.

They're all gone. Good riddance. Lots of time and money squandered, but lessons learned. I'm aware that lots of American gardeners dote on them. I think that's wonderful, but I don't care to hear about it. I know the truth about Austins in my garden, and that's that.


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Jax has it right. If they are not good roses in YOUR garden, it doesn't matter one bit that they are great roses somewhere else.

The very fact that our dominating native flora here appears to be prickly pear cactus should have told me to begin with that roses bred for England wouldn't thrive here.

Jeri


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I have my one single Austin purchase, Graham Thomas, in one of the most prime spots in my garden--morning sun, high traffic and irrigation if it needs it. The thing blackspots like crazy, the leaves fall off and it has bare canes. It's been the the ground a little over a year and it might be the ugliest bush I have.

But it blooms.

All the time.

I keep thinking I'll rip it out, and one day I probably will if a little more age doesn't clean it up. But dang it, ripping a bush out that has blooms on it might take more gumption than I've got!


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Yes ma'am, been there, done it, came to pretty much the same conclusions. Too much plant for too little bloom, requiring too much water to be happy in my garden, climate, soil, conditions, etc. Not that they aren't or can't be good elsewhere. They just don't seem to care for savannah to desert conditions without major reinvention of the existing conditions. I've done that, too, and realized I simply don't HAVE to. It takes much too many resources, time and energy. Better to enjoy what wants to be happy where I am. Kim


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  • Posted by AquaEyes 7 New Brunswick, NJ (My Page) on
    Thu, Oct 10, 13 at 23:30

Subk3 -- if ugly bare canes is your issue with the rose, yet it lives and blooms, consider putting a clematis on it.

:-)

~Christopher


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I absolutely agree with you. About a little less than a decade ago I planted Sharifa Asma, Golden Celebration, Heritage, Abraham Darby, Crown Princess Margareta, even Jude the Obscure because I thought/think they are so beautiful, and were touted as fragrant. The only rose that did not either fry in the heat, throw out octopus canes, or refused to bloom in partially shaded conditions was Golden Celebration. That one I am still enamored with, but I think I discovered what it likes to thrive here ( it is a water hog that performs well when it receives filtered sun and then shade).

I have not given up totally. I currently have a Bishop's Castle that lived through my summer, and seems to be thriving in the ground. I have a Charles Renni Mackintosh; the verdict is still out, and Young Lycidas will be sent this winter. Oh, and I am growing the dreaded Gertrude Jekyll - grafted. I cancelled the Munstead Wood and am gravitating toward bourbons and tea roses because I just do not want to deal with unhappy Austin's in my garden. They truly can be fussy, and in the scheme of things, just not worth it.

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Fri, Oct 11, 13 at 0:27


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I'm still undecided.I've got quite a few Austins,and am not sure what to make of them yet. Ingenious Mr. Fairchild was great when it was small,now it's too octopussy,with poor quality blooms.BUT this may simple be due to my exaggerating with the alfalfa,and overly-shallow soil. I've moved my Gerties into the most clay -y part of the garden. My 2 year old Darcy Bussel is great; even now plenty of flowers. But will this do the same thing as Ingenious Mr? I haven't written them off yet because other types of roses in certain areas of my garden have comparable issues; several of my teas have gotten to be very big, green plants with poor blooms, too (though no octupus arms)...I'm changing their diet, and also bringing in a lot of native clay and organic matter,since frankly I know perfectly well that in many areas of my garden the soil is just too shallow,and I wasn't preparing it correctly either, before planting.So, I'm giving everybody another year or two, before I decide.However, for what it's worth, I have ordered no new Austins, and in fact have concentrated on adding a lot of small-flowered, and also single-flowered,roses this year...bart


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I live in a dry desert area with very hot summers, and I've been growing Austins since the early nineties. I don't have any major complaints about them. A few don't bloom as much as I would like, but I have more trouble with lack of bloom (Party Dress , Caramel Antique) and "spider legs" (Sisters Fairy Tale) on some of my Kordes roses than my Austins. My Golden Celebration is growing in one of the hottest, sunniest places in my garden--it was blooming in July and It's blooming right now in the cold. Diane


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Ingrid,

While I am thankful for the Austins (they led me to this forum), I too am quite over growing them. Though I cannot rightly complain about the ones I have (Chamblee's only sells Austins that thrive in Texas), I find that what initially drew me to them is now making me turn to other types: they are designer roses. I am much happier investing my time and money into roses which not only appreciate the Southern climate, but that have a history to them as well. How cool is it that I have a 200 year old rose cultivar sitting on my back porch? The Austins cannot touch that. In fact, for all of their bloom form and (supposed) fragrance, I can match that and more in the Old Garden roses.

Perhaps if Mr. Austin started a breeding program here in the States as well which produced plants more suitable for the continent I could be swayed again to give him my money, but until then I will stick with my Teas, Chinas, Tea-Noisettes, and random once bloomers.

Josh


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I think that PNW weather patterns are similar to Englands weather where Austin started it all. Perhaps that is the reason that they do reasonably well here.
Abe Darby - bloom machine no BS fountain shaped 4 year old bush
Golden Celebration- bloom machine no BS 2 year old...will be a monster.
The above are stunning. I also have the following which get some BS:
Prospero, Jude the Obscure, Mary Magdalene (slow grower too), Gertrude Jeckell and one other which I cant remember the name of and it's dark outside..
Ingrid..when I first began this garden I added Moss roses. They were a dismal failure here. Out of 6-7 only one remains. Interesting how different areas of the country support different roses.
Jeannie


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I would like to say they grow well here although are not to my taste....but that would not be entirely honest since they don't grow that well, are invariably blackspotty thoughout most of the growing season and have far too few blooms to justify the size of bush (and space taken up). True, I only ever grew a scant dozen or so but the only remaining ones are a couple of GTs (now so stout and high on a wall that I can afford to leave them be) and a promising Golden Cel, currently competing with Crepsuscule (and winning).
Gone, but not missed - Compte de Champagne (how I loved the blooms but so sickly)
Falstaff - ugly, ugly, bare
Pat - huge, diseased, droopy
Jude - yeah, I still have this as a background rose, much disguised by underplanting and overplanting.
St Alban - rubbish
Claire Austin - rubbish
Charles Rennie Mackintosh - rubbish
Wild Edric - stay of execution here because I love the fresh foliage.
Scintillation - an OK ground cover rose, once blooming.
a couple of others, so long dismissed I have forgotten them.

I have seen them looking good (in other people's gardens) - just not in mine....which I suspect is largely a matter of taste and care regimen rather than innate rubbishness (in the UK).


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It's been about ten years since I gave up on Austins here in my hot, humid climate. The ones I tried hated our weather and had health issues. Graham Thomas did bloom reliably for me, but the others, despite my pampering and coddling, only gave me a few blooms before they basically fried to death...Graham was the only one in partial shade. I have very little garden space that isn't either full sun or full shade. I felt so sure I was going to love Graham that I gave him a coveted spot with relief from late afternoon sun. In exchange, he gave me long octopus canes and sparse foliage on an ugly bush. He and his friends whom I can’t recall (I think I had Abe, Heritage and something else) are long gone. I am about at capacity on space that is irrigated and on time I can allot to my roses right now, so I’m trying to make these last few I’m adding round out variety in my garden. I’m heavy on HTs and FBs, so I’ve gotten more OGRS to add this fall and have decided to try a few of the newer Austins this spring. If those Austins aren’t happy in my garden, I’ll feel comfortable that I’ve given the collection a fair chance, and they will be replaced by more OGRs and Romanticas (the ones I’ve tried are decent bloomers for me and have done okay in our heat and sun).


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I have a few Austins, planted in the past before I gravitated toward OGRs. Teasing Georgia blooms well but has few leaves and sprawls out of bounds so that she gets run over by the tractor regularly. Christopher Marlowe is growing in a grove of cannas so I can't tell whether he has any foliage, but quite lovely blooms appear regularly. Charles Darwin is similarly engulfed by a Youpon tree and is, therefore, equally satisfactory. There are a several others that are neither memorably good or bad, but I will not add Austins in the future.


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My experience with Austin roses in a hot, dry climate has been similar to others posting. I have not had much luck with them and they seem not to like my climate. I have a couple that are hanging on but I will probably not buy anymore (I get tempted every winter when a local nursery sells them bareroot).


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Bart, I recommend 'Sharifa Asma', one of my few Austins. This one is growing in full sun and wind in rocky ground, no irrigation, and has slowly matured into a stout upright shrub rather like a Portland in habit, healthy and very fragrant. 'Crown Princess Margareta' is nearby and is hanging on, at any rate, and flowering. It has a considerably lankier habit.
Admittedly the Austin roses don't grow well in all climates--what roses do?--but in the middle of this hail of depressing criticism I want to put in a word for them. They include a very fair percentage of roses that, when grown in conditions that suit them, are beautiful, fragrant, and make graceful shrubs with good foliage. I still haven't seen much among modern shrub roses that I think surpasses them: so many modern roses seem to have interchangeable foliage, and so many seem to have a Hybrid Tea habit but with old-fashioned blooms. Boring. Am I perhaps behind the times in following new roses? Have I been missing the distinctive beautiful plants, with character, that breeders are creating these days?
Melissa
P.S. I hope nobody will take this as a criticism of gardeners who have tried Austin roses and then abandoned them as unsuitable for their conditions. They don't work for me either, for the most part.


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They're so difficult to resist when you see gorgeous pictures on-line and in books, but at least in a hot and dry climate they have issues. I've noticed that Golden Celebration seems to be a good rose for many people, and for me and others Bishop's Castle also seems to be a good performer. Sharifa Asma is another rose that I've heard praised. Melissa, I completely agree with you about the growth habits of the Austins vis a vis other modern roses after having grown Yves Piaget, with gorgeous blooms and a lanky and sparsely-leaved bush. I loved mine anyway because companion plants mitigated the deficiencies of the bush, until a gopher grew fond of it. It recovered somewhat but the flowers the year after were awful and it had to go. I completely agree that when well grown in the right conditions they're a thing of beauty, but so many areas in the U.S. are not its cup of tea. It's so easy to become seduced by the dream but the reality unfortunately is often another story.

Ingrid


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Not taken as criticism at ALL, Melissa! It just goes back to growing what works for where you are.

BTW, Camp -- I have to agree with you on Charles Rennie Mackintosh -- It was certainly rubbish HERE. Note: I wouldn't say that of other Austins, which are probably fine roses, ill-suited to my conditions.

Jeri


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I was very disappointed with the first several DA roses that I planted in the early to mid 90s. People were claiming that the English roses were more disease resistant than hybrid teas, but they weren't. Most of them had troublesome growth habits and/or were not great repeaters. However, I do still have a few of the older ones, 'Prospero', 'Pretty Jessica', and 'Heritage', all good roses in my area.

It seems that DA roses released since 2000 are on average considerably better than those of the 70s and 80s. Some of them have pretty good disease resistance and fewer of them are rampant growers with too little repeat bloom.

DA's roses are properly compared to the long-caned bourbons and the hybrid perpetuals. I suspect that for most climates there is a selection of English roses that compares favorably to the best of those old roses as to disease resistance and repeat bloom, while bearing flowers of similar quality. That's an accomplishment we should be grateful for.


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Clearly Austins do well under some conditions - look at the gorgeous photos that lured us all into buying them! My growing conditions are doubtless too hot, humid and lacking in TLC, but they survive here and thrive elsewhere.


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I think of them as big HPs as well.

Ambridge rose has done very well here and blooms all year without the extrordinary amounts of water the others demand and does not throw out octopus canes.

Sharifa Asma has been a good rose too and stays low- no octopus canes

I like the Shepherdess for the amount of bloom through the year. She gets as much as Our Lady of Guadalupe next to her and still repeat blooms. She grows a little taller than Sharifa Asma.

WS2000 is very nice in a pot and will not get too large but asks for more water to bloom.

All the rest are big and thirsty. I think only a few exceptional ones will find lasting fame in the south and west. If you live in the pacific northwest or east and you are willing to spray, there are probably many more satisfactory DAs to choose from.

I don't blame you one bit Ingrid. Since DA in Texas started sending out virused roses, I have been having a rethink myself.


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I must be one of the lucky ones! I'm a rank beginner but I was completely seduced by the roses I saw in a friend's David Austin catalogue. I had an irregular, triangular patch of (very poor, i.e. heavy clay) soil below my vegetable garden which was an absolute eyesore. I decided to see whether roses would survive there. About 18 months ago I planted Golden Celebration, Lichfield Angel, Teasing Georgia, A Shropshire Lad, Wildeve and Queen of Sweden as well as some 'Toscana' roses - Sans Souci, Anna Fendi, Bella di Todi and Roberto Cappucci. For good measure I added Just Joey (a rose my mother grew), Iceberg and Buff Beauty.

All the roses have flourished but the absolute standouts are Golden Celebration, Queen of Sweden, Lichfield Angel (all Austins) and Sans Souci (a Toscana).

I also planted the Austin climbing rose 'St. Swithun' against a south facing stone wall of the house - it has flowered prolifically, is completely disease free and has almost reached the top of the wall (4 metres high).

Perhaps it's simply a question of having a climate that suits the roses.?


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  • Posted by hoovb z9 Southern CA (My Page) on
    Fri, Oct 11, 13 at 17:12

Not all of my Austins have been winners, but I can say exactly the same thing about Zarys, Carruths, Boerners, Bucks, Duchers, Warriners, Christensens, Moores, Kordes, Delbards, Tantaus, Guillots, Harknesses, Radlers...


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I've grown roses by most -- not all -- of those other hybridizers, and readily echo the very same observation that hoovb makes. But I can also say that, in each instance, at least some of their roses were winners.


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Not all roses grow well in all places.

Some conditions are better for some roses, less-ideal for others.

Success consists of finding roses you enjoy that grow where you are, without heroics.

Jeri


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RE: No More Austins for Me

  • Posted by rross NSW Aust (My Page) on
    Fri, Oct 11, 13 at 20:21

I have just one Austin rose: Jude. When it was in a pot, on my relentlessly Saharan balcony, it was my longest blooming rose, and my only gripe was its lousy performance in a vase. Since planting it in the ground when I bought my house, it's given me a total of 3 roses in two years and has barely grown at all. I don't know what to think. Maybe I'll stick it back in a pot. I can't bear the thought of getting rid of it.


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  • Posted by fogrose zone 10/sunset 17 (My Page) on
    Fri, Oct 11, 13 at 20:46

I'm with you, Ingrid. Banished from my garden as they were disease magnets.

Too many other beautiful roses to struggle with Austins.

Diane


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Yes, it's difficult--if not near impossible--to resist a beautiful rose. Growing it successfully, however, is a different matter.

Our instinctive human need (or is it desire?) to seize and possess a thing of beauty is a strong one! When tempted by the DA book, by the DA catalog, by the beautiful pics members of this forum post, I find it helpful to repeat that familiar adage often heard in here--chant it like a mantra--and hope it will carry me over to solid ground: what works for you might not work for me. Of course it rarely works.

This post was edited by prickles on Fri, Oct 11, 13 at 21:15


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Rross, give your Jude one more year in the ground (for a total of three years) and see what happens. My Jude is nine years old, and it took three years for it to get going, just as Golden Celebration took three years, and hopefully, your rose will come into its own and begin to bloom and grow. Diane

Jude in June


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Tuderte's mention of her Austins thriving in clay soil makes me wonder if they object to my decomposed granite as much as they do to the heat. In regard to the other roses hoovb mentions, I can only say that Earth Song has been a big disappointment, Basye's Purple went from gorgeous and blooming to a few sticks in record time, Yves Piaget looked good in its first year only, ditto The Fawn (or Faun), Our Lady of Guadalupe tanked, Wild Blue Yonder's growth habit was plain ugly after the first year, and on and on. I've done my best to enrich the soil but the fact remains that overall roses that do well for for almost everyone (Our Lady of Guadalupe) just don't work here. Of course not everyone lives in a field of boulders in the high desert, and I've tried to ignore that fact for too long, blissfully ordering "gorgeous" roses that took one long look at my conditions and promptly fainted or embraced suicide as a welcome release. It makes me really cherish the handful of stalwarts that have hung in there with me for a number of years.

Ingrid


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My conditions aren't so hot here, either. When I moved to this property it was unbroken desert ground with a caliche layer and plenty of clay, rock, you name it. The above Jude was planted by some dopy landscapers (while I was sick) who didn't know a thing about roses. Jude was stuck in this ground with no soil amendments in a hole that was too small. Still, the rose persevered as did a number of other Austins. In fact, the first roses planted here were entirely Austins (except for New Dawn) because I'd grown them at my previous home and loved them. Here's a view looking out from my back yard. This is rough country. Diane


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I, too, fully agree with Melissa about the good points of the Austins. I just don't like that HT habit of, say Barni's "Le Toscane" roses;I am not sure but I think the Romantica's, too have this defect, which for me is a serious one! Also,mine do not seem to have much in the way of health issues, either,and some of them really do seem to want to re-bloom (my garden has to rely on rainfall for irrigation,so with the annual summer drought, even supposedly "continuous bloomers" usually do not re-bloom for me,so this is a note-worthy trait).I suspect that clay soil is a big help,which is why I'm going to all the trouble and hard work of dragging in bags of it to my garden.I have also learned this past year NOT to re-prune my Austins after the first flush, as many gardeners do (not enough water here). Perhaps what is causing the poor-quality blooms is a combination of too much nitrogen,plus thrips and overly shallow soil (and I think I read that an excess of nitrogen DOES tend to make a rose more attractive to bugs...). So,the jury is still out...
If I manage to resolve some of the issues on my present Austins, I very well may give Sharifa a try; thanks for the tip, Melissa! bart


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  • Posted by rross NSW Aust (My Page) on
    Sat, Oct 12, 13 at 5:48

Thanks for your advice, Diane. I really do want to keep my Jude. Your own Judes are lovely.


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  • Posted by Evenie 9b - New Olreans (My Page) on
    Sat, Oct 12, 13 at 10:27

Genetics are nothing more than a roll of the dice. Only half of the new plants that I try here work out, but sometimes what works is very surprising.
I have a few Austins on order and I'll give them a whirl, but only because I can't grow bourbons. I would rather have a single nice Souvenir de la Malmaison then all the DAs in the world. I've just got too much water. I wish we could pump the water out of the yard (and sometimes the house) through a pipeline to the people who need it. We pipe all of our oil, why not water too?

Evenie


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  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Sat, Oct 12, 13 at 10:29

I'm not sure it's fair to condemn an entire line of roses after trying only a few. Each Austin variety will have it's own characteristics and while some may be dogs in your garden there is always the possibility that others could be great. Every rose is different and what is good here may be awful there and vice versa.

I do think that these roses have been bred in very different climate conditions than we have in North America so that would have to be a consideration. But it doesn't mean that ALL Austins won't do well here. Roses are pretty adaptable when you think about it. There must be some that can cross the pond with ease.


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I agree with seil. I remember some years ago when I first started checking out Austins. For some reason, Heritage and a few others were very popular, but then there was also a chorus of disappointed gardeners who lamented that Heritage was a blackspotter and shattered quickly. But people kept right on buying Heritage anyway--and then kept on lamenting its BS and shattering. Myself, I never bought a Heritage because I was pretty sure it would BS and shatter! Instead, I picked some Austins that are more disease-resistant and more floriferous--so there was nothing to lament about.

Like any group of roses attached to some breeder's name, some of the roses will be more disease-resistant while others are less resistant; some will rebloom better and last longer than some of the others; some will have strong fragrances, others much weaker fragrances, etc. Just like you select a Bourbon like Souvenir de la Malmaison for its beauty and other fine characteristics, pick out your Austins based on their desirable characsteristics instead of continually buying (or remembering) the Austins' that suffer from BS and shattering and whatever other negative trait.

Myself, I plan to avoid the Austins and the other "brands" that have problems with BS and short-lived blooms.

Kate : )


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We realize that we are in the minority, but we are apparently among the few who have not had significant problems with the Austin roses. We now live in a dry area at the edge of California's San Joaquin valley on incredibly fertile, deep, alluvial soil. This is orchard country, where there are large acreages planted to walnuts, almonds, peaches, cherries, and apples. Beyond an occasional bout with powdery mildew and blackspot, we rarely see foliar diseases. Our home is around a quarter of a mile from the Stanislaus River and we have a well that provides us with adequate supply of high quality water. All of our roses are on drip and we are able to irrigate them generously. We had over 100 Austin roses in our garden in the Santa Clara Valley and all did very well there. Here we are approaching that number and they are all thriving. We do struggle with some of the Austins that grow 'octopus arms, but we are trying ot prune them to develope a branching habit. We do enjoy modern classes of roses and a few OGR's as well, but most of the Austins flower more for us than OGR's. We like the diversity of bloom shapes, colors, and fragrances. To be sure, some are better than others, but as a group, we enjoy them immensely. We would not be without the Austins.


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john_ca, it sounds as though you have perfect conditions not only for the Austins but for practically any other rose. When I began this thread it wasn't my intent to disparage the Austin roses, many of which, at least in pictures, look incredibly beautiful. The sad fact is that in my garden many of them just haven't worked. For that matter, many other roses haven't worked either. Even though I love the old roses most, I'd love to have good modern roses that have the look of the old roses. I've had Cottage Rose, one of the old Austins, for years because it's tough enough to survive and give me a reasonable show of flowers. Potter and Moore, another old Austin, I'm very fond of and it's doing very well, as is Bishop's Castle. My two bushes of Sophy's Rose also bloom regularly, and Pretty Jessica is growing slowly and blooming a little, but it's still a young rose. I forgot to mention that I also have Chaucer, yet another very old Austin, but I only acquired it in March of this year, own-root. It's actually growing nicely and I've been disbudding it, but hopefully by next spring I'll have an idea of its worth.

When the newer Austins have stood the test of time and forum members with similar conditions to mine have success with them I'll probably be tempted to reconsider.

Diane (nanadoll), that is a dramatic and harshly beautiful landscape, and I'm amazed that your Jude survived under the conditions you describe. Again I'm wondering whether the clay component of your soil allowed this rose to hang in there.

Ingrid


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Right Rose Right Place

I think that is the biggest issue with the failures many are reporting. If you were looking for a hedge row of arching long armed Austins, there is probably a good one for you, but putting that same rose by a walk will make it a failure.

Just like planting one that will fry in the heat, in a hot dry area.

Or growing roses in holes that cactus work to thrive in.

What I have discovered in my couple of years of growing roses, the happy ones get more water, food and a bit of shade in the heat of the day. The ones that do bad get less water, food and more heat.

It is probably better to match our expectations with the area and conditions we live in rather than the area we wish our garden was in.


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Truer words have seldom been spoken, Kippy. Kim


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RE: No More Austins for Me

  • Posted by aswhad belgium-europe (My Page) on
    Sat, Oct 12, 13 at 14:04

Just a question, i read a lot of blackspot complaints here...
did you prune it hard or lightly?
Why the question?
David Austin advices to prune deep if the rose suffers from blackspot.
(Hopefully my english is clear enough)


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I wonder if people are over-generalizing. Austin's roses are a diverse group. I agree with Kate's post, except that I don't think 'Heritage' has a bad reputation for blackspotting. It has somewhat above-average resistance to BS and mildew, but California growers say it is very susceptible to rose rust.

I also think we make too much of DA roses being selected for the mild English climate. They (all?) are more winter hardy than typical hybrid teas and most are vigorous in the North American heat--maybe not in the extreme heat of the inland West, but how many roses are?


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I still prefer Austin roses than Hybrid Teas.
They just need a bucket load of water each day. Yes, some of them may be stingy with blooms, but I think it's in their genes. I just love the shrubby look.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I tried Pat Austin and Golden Celebration. Pat was so irritating I didn't even consider finding her a good home. It's not the kind of rose I'd give to a friend.

GC I gave away to a real rose lover and now it has a very good home. My climate is hot like yours, Ingrid, but unlike yours it's very humid. Surprisingly, GC didn't have blackspot but was quite clean. I remember you don't like yellow roses, because I don't like them much either, and GC just didn't fit in with my colour scheme, which - like yours if I remember correctly - is purple, crimson and pink. I seem to remember you do have a yellow rose in a relatively separate spot? Near some wall? If ever you feel like another yellow rose, GC is just wonderful. He's not harsh yellow or lemony yellow, but rich deep yellow, a very warm colour. I think if I had more space and a separate corner in my garden I'd combine him with some white annuals, as the only way I can enjoy yellow is in combination with white.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

WinterCat, I'm amazed and feel honored that you remember so much about me. You're right about my color scheme, although it also includes white. The yellow rose you mention is Cl. Lady Hillingdon which was near a wall until it began to deteriorate, and I had to move it across the path to live among my tea roses. Fortunately its closest neighbor is Rosette Delizy, which of course is a melange of colors, including yellow. Lady Hillingdon is really more of an apricot than a true yellow which makes her acceptable in my eyes, although apricot isn't my favorite color either. Talk about being fussy! Thankfully in my garden I have only myself to please.

If I had a separate corner Golden Celebration would be nice to have, and I can see that white would be wonderful with it, with perhaps some soft lavender irises for contrast. In my garden one area flows into another so that's not doable.

I take it you live in Israel? That is not a place that I would have thought to be humid since I've always envisioned it as being more of a desert.

Ingrid


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Ingrid, tiny though Israel may be, it doesn't have one climate but a veritable collection of climates.

"Average annual temperatures vary throughout Israel based on elevation and location, with the coastal areas adjacent to the Mediterranean Sea having milder temperatures��"ranging from about 84 °F (29 °C) in August to about 61 °F (16 °C) in January��"and higher rates of humidity than areas inland, especially during the winter. Likewise, higher elevations, such as Upper Galilee, have cool nights, even in summer, and occasional snows in the winter. However, the coastal city of Elat, in the south, despite its proximity to the Red Sea, is closer to the climate of the Jordan and ʿArava valleys and the Negev, which are hotter and drier than the northern coast; there, daytime temperatures reach about 70 °F (21 °C) in January and may rise as high as 114 °F (46 °C) in August, when the average high is 104 °F (40 °C)."

This is from Britannica (I'm attaching a link)

And here's an excerpt from the Wiki entry "Geography of Israel":

"The Israeli Coastal Plain ... is fertile and humid (historically malarial) and is known for its citrus orchards and viticulture"

Like many of my generation (I'm Campanula's age) I heard many a time in my childhood from some of my elders and betters what a spoiled brat I was - living in luxury (running water! Indoor flush toilet!) - while they had languished with malaria and all manner of disease and hardship etc. So much for dry desert :)

The Galilee is, of course, the best place for rose growing in this country. I'm in the sauna AKA as the coastal plain.

Here is a link that might be useful: Israel's climate from Britannica


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Very interesting, thanks for the info, WinterCat. If such a small country can have so much variety in climates, it's easy to understand that one can't talk about generalities in growing roses. I'm beginning to think that each garden is a world unto its own, and that your neighbor can successfully grow a rose that hates your garden. I'm going to look at this as a challenge instead of a plot designed to drive us all crazy.

Ingrid


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RE: No More Austins for Me

This is sort of a side note but, I was thinking, while glaring at the octopus cane currently towering above my 6-month in the ground Falstaff (which was playing so nicely before)...
Maybe that's the reason the catalogue continuously encourages "planting in groups of three"... Cause if you have one plant with an octopus arm, you have a ridiculous rose, but if you have a group of three with three evenly spaced octopus arms, at least it's balanced... And less noticeable and less ridiculous....
I'm really curious about how many David Austin roses will be in my garden three years from now. Like with many other people, a DA catalogue in my hands marked the beginning of a violent passion for roses....
So cheers to David Austin and the Marketing department!!! Without you there would be no Souvenir de la Malmaison!


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RE: No More Austins for Me

That, and "lather, rinse, repeat." Kim


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RE: No More Austins for Me

The worst "octopus" arm canes (I prefer the words "spider leg" canes, since they are quite stiff) produced in my garden are those thrown out, mostly in September, by some of my Kordes roses and a few other non Austins. Any Austins I grow are over the wild and crazy canes stage by their third year. And I've been growing some of them for over twenty years. Diane


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Someone -- I wish I could remember who -- was asked why Austin so frequently recommended planting his roses in groupings of three.

The calm reply was:
"Would you prefer to sell one rose, or three?"

Jeri


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Here in hot, humid Texas, my Golden Celebration is an absolute mess, ugly, awkward, plenty of blackspot; but, it throws incredibly beautiful blooms in the midst of all this misery, so I can sympathize with you, subk3. I keep saying I'm going to sp it, but so far just haven't had the nerve.

I also have Abe Darby, a mess for about 10 years, then all of a sudden, for whatever reason, straightened up, again pumping out beautiful blooms, and Wife of Bath (healthy) from the 80's.

Latest acquisitions are Graham Thomas and Jude, which seem incredibly healthy so far.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

  • Posted by Sow_what S. California: Inlan (My Page) on
    Wed, Mar 19, 14 at 13:16

I'm just getting started with David Austins, but so far they're doing better than any of the many floribundas and old roses growing on the property. Even if they weren't tho, I'd rather have a few unforgettably beautiful blooms (as the David Austins tend to be), than a mass of my floribunda blooms, that to my heart are pretty "so what".

I should mention that I'm pretty obsessive about trying to find "the right rose for the right place", and maybe that's why my Austins are doing well.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

As others have mentioned, right rose for the right place. Some of us garden in climates where you can drop a few seeds or stick a cutting and produce paradise. Then there's the other extreme.... I never cease to be impressed by the conditions under which rose gardeners create versions of paradise. Ingrid, your garden is a testament to a determined gardener (and hole digging partner) and tough but gorgeous plants. Unless my knowledge is way off base, I don't think any rose is native to your immediate area. Yet there are certainly wonderful specimens of roses in your garden! Austin has created some beauties (in some environments) on graceful (in some climates) shrubs, but he was never up against the challenge of rose breeding for toasty granite hillsides when selecting for healthy plants. Not all Austins are rosy in my garden either which is why I'm about to order a chunk of Barden roses from RVR. Similar climate equals high hopes for success with more ease. I say toss what is torture and embrace what works and gives you pleasure. Your garden will give us pleasure, too, whenever you offer us glimpses of your hilly paradise. Carol


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Since I began this thread about five months ago, my feelings have not changed but to some extent my reasons have. For one thing, after some fairly recent acquisitions, I have no plans to buy more roses. I have enough for my available space, and don't want to use any more water than I do now. Frankly, after receiving the 2014 Austin catalog recently and studying it, there really wasn't a single rose that I really coveted. I had already bought four bands of Austin's Wild Edric, a rose that is not in the usual Austin mold in that it's more of a rugosa, and which apparently will thrive in heat, drought, poor soil and minimal coddling, all of which I can supply in droves. Time will tell if it truly has all these qualities. To be honest, the Austins by now look rather distressingly uniform and homogeneous to me. How much more exciting to have bought No. 92 Nanjing, Dr. O'Donel Brown, Emily, Rhodologue Jules Gravereaux and Hoag House Cream. These roses are old and have historical associations and an aura of romance and mystery. How much nicer to step into the garden and be surrounded by that ambiance. Of course they're also as lovely as any Austin, but with more individuality and character. That's not to say that I'm not happy to have the old and beautiful Austins Potter and Moore, Chaucer and Pretty Jessica or the more modern but healthy Bishop's Palace and Sophy's Rose. The Austins have a varied heritage and it would be strange if there weren't at least a few that I can grow too.

Carol, you've been a great cheerleader for me, while being very modest about your own beautiful and creative garden. I have high hopes that when it wakes up in a little while, you'll treat us to a view of your piece of paradise.

Ingrid


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I will do so, Ingrid. And I'm right beside you in valuing those old, historical beauties. Every time I pluck a hip from an Apothecary's Rose or stick my nose in Rhodologue Jules (which oddly enough is doing quite well here in my PDX garden, too), I feel a connection to all who have done so before me. Wonderful photos on your other post! Looking forward to walking through the seasons of your garden. Carol


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I'm looking forward to see how The Ingenious Mr F and Co. will react to all the soil I've added this year, plus the mulch. I agree that some of the Austins do look too uniform,though IF the ones I have do better with the new additions, I would like to try that Albrighton Rambler...plus some of the ones recommmended by Ingrid and Melissa. I must say I'm astonished to hear that Wild Edric does so well for you, Ingrid! I tried it and it literally refused to grow, as did Roseraie de L'Hay, so I basically gave up on rugosas, totally, since they are the only type of rose that categorically seemed to hate my garden. If they do well for you, it can't be heat and dryness...so soil??? bart


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RE: No More Austins for Me

bart, I bought my Wild Edric bands on the basis of someone who posted here (I'm sorry I can't recall who) about how well this rose did in her hot and dry garden with little water. I was pretty excited since I never thought a rugosa to be ideal for my garden. I did have Therese Bugnet at one time and it did reasonably well, but I definitely believe the sun's radiation is greater now than it was about seven years ago. This is an experiment and I won't know for a few years whether it's a successful one, but if you're a gardener you live in hope.

By the way, I don't know if you recall that I also have The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild and this will be its first year of any real blooms. I've mulched and fertilized in the hope that mine will do well, and not only now but in the future, since I remember yours was beautiful the first year (it looked great in your picture), but after that you felt it wasn't very satisfactory. I do hope your efforts with new soil and mulch will be rewarded.

Ingrid


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You people are bumming me out with all the negative DA rose talk. I have been planing a trip for months to Chamblees nursery to buy my first DA roses and even joined this forum to get info and input and so far I have been getting good feedback until I read this thread. I am still going to buy a few DA roses that I hope will be recommended to me by the fine people at Chamblees and I am sure I will be getting other roses besides DA. I am going to think positive that I am going to have good success and grow some beautiful DA roses. :)


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  • Posted by portia Bayarea N. CA 9 (My Page) on
    Thu, Mar 20, 14 at 21:22

In our old climate in N.CA, I loved how the Austins technically grew, they were pretty robust, got large, didn't get too much blackspot or rust, and flowered abundantly. However the flowers themselves usually left something to be desired-- the many-petaled varieties would often not open all the way since nights were cold, and others would blow within a day or two (like one of my favorites Golden Celebration would blow within a day, so sad!) so I didn't really feel like I got a ton of enjoyment out of them.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

boncrow66, don't lose faith. You will notice that a large number of the posters downgrading the Austins are from California, or from the Atlantic states on the extreme east coast. Evidently California in particular has problems many of us from other areas do not have--because Austins grow very well and are gorgeous in quite a few places across this country. They certainly grow well in middle America--straight north of you in Oklahoma/Kansas/Nebraska and nearby states. And my impression is that many of them are quite happy growing in Texas, at least a number of Texas posters have made such claims in the past.

So go on being excited about your impending trip to Chamblees. I would be delighted to join you if I didn't live so far away--I think such an experience would be fantastic, and I know they will give you loads of wonderful advice along with tempting you with wonderful Austins to pick from!

I have about 15 Austins in my Kansas garden and would gladly grow at least a dozen more if I had any space left to plant them. Lack of space is the only thing that will interfere with my love affair with the beautiful Austins! Let the Californians go off and grump in their own corner of the nation. We can celebrate Austins right here in the middle of America! LOL

Kate


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It's funny but in his book 'The english roses" David Austin says 'Radio Rimes is a poor performer but might be better suited to warmer gardens, and it is the only Austin I have bothered to keep because it's such a work horse. Just provs the importance of matching plants to climate.
from now on, only teas and Chinas for me.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Boncrow66, don't despair! Both Chamblees and ARE sell Austins for good reasons. A number of Austins are wonderful roses for various TX environments. If you're ever unsure about a particular Austin (or any other rose) in your specific part of TX, the experts at those two nurseries can give you solid advice. I grow several Austins in my garden in PDX and they are lovely! Which ones did you order? Please post photos when they bloom. I'm always up for iPad garden tours. Carol


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Boncrow66, I also agree with the Austin fans. I have one David Austin in particular, right outside my front door, that blooms generously and continuously with no care. Its pretty roses have greeted me almost every day for the past 10 years as I depart my home. My other Austins are new, so I can't say how they'll do down the line, but so far I'm swept away by their beauty, especially when compared to all the other roses I've experienced. A client of mine has almost 500 roses, and the ones I like best are almost always the David Austins.

Best of luck with your choices, and enjoy the adventure!

-jannike


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Adam:

I agree with your comment about matching plants to climate, but there's a poetic irony in the world of gardening. I've recently spoken to several consulting rosarians, and they've all stated that only a handful of Austin roses and almost no Old Garden Roses are suitable to our climate, yet look at the pictures on this forum that defy those expert opinions. Sometimes I feel as if garden successes are 50% doing all the right things, and 50% luck.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Carole, what is PDX?

Austins, they don't much appeal to me anyway....but what tended to make me a bit cross was the way they are somehow singled out for special consideration and even included in a forum title. Now this, frankly, pees me right off since I, for one, consider myself above the crude strategies of marketing......which is all it is - there is NO significant difference between Austins and a whole slew of similar 'nostalgic' roses which purportedly echo the old fashioned styles of yesteryear. Hence, why no mention of Romanticas, Rennaissance, Generosa, as well as 'English' roses. Getting the drift here? They are a brand name....not a type or a class or a species. Course, there are always going to be people loyal to Coca-cola (but not me cos I wouldn't touch the stuff).........and I realise that there are many ways to garden - as stylists, designers, aesthetes, historians, ecologists or farmers -horticulture has many branches.
Austins are not the only modern breeders which are selling these blowsy, puffed up flowers (I really don't care for them).....and yet they get the special treatment and consideration as though they were a class of their own.....which they are not. Naturally, we are all vulnerable to advertising strategies and glossy catalogues.....but to perpetuate the idea that Austins are some sort of speciality rose which deserves a category of their own.....or else be banished over to the plain old 'rose forum' is just rubbish.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Camps, I'm with you on this with regards to the 'why treat DA roses differently' part (this is starting to worry me, I have to find something to disagree with you; food maybe?) but I don't loose any sleep over it. On the other hand, DA was the first to make any significant noises about returning to the 'old' style of roses (whatever that is) so credit must be given where credit is due. Many people have discovered antique roses through DA.
Nik

PS. If you ask me about the GW forums, I personally don't like and find extremely frustrating and inconvenient the forum split between antiques and 'plain' roses and the fact that DA rose is here rather than there makes little difference to me.

This post was edited by nikthegreek on Fri, Mar 21, 14 at 12:47


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  • Posted by portia Bayarea N. CA 9 (My Page) on
    Fri, Mar 21, 14 at 8:00

boncrow66...grow what excites you! I still had a handful of Austins in my garden in CA (Evelyn was probably my best performer and GC who was very floriferous and healthy even if the flowers blew in the heat) and I bought a few for our climate here in Z6...who knows what will happen with them but I still think they are beautiful.


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I am still excited and undeterred lol. It's kinda like figuring out which tequila you like best in your margaritas, you keep tasting till you get it right :) I recommend 1800 gold for the smoothest 'Rita's btw. I will let you know what makes it home with me!


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I grow (and still grow) Romanticas, as well as Austin roses. As hoov recently said in another thread, Romanticas are more like a hybrid tea or grandiflora in growth habit. Some of them happen to have blooms with an old rose shape (Frederic Mistral has an HT shape to its blooms; it doesn't look particularly "old fashioned"). I've also had trouble with a Romantica being winter hardy here (Pink Traviata). Austins are plenty winter hardy here, among my best. I don't think saying Austins and Romanticas are basically the same type rose is valid. Diane


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RE: No More Austins for Me

There is no denying it, many people find Austin roses to be beautiful, and they can be very fragrant too, but, what is the issue?

I can only remark regarding Austin's in my garden, and the issue is heat tolerance. Some (Abraham Darby, Heritage, Sharifa Asma, Jude the Obscure) either have petals that fry or the color just bleaches out to an un recognizable version of itself; so what's the point????

Others have performered well ( Golden Celebration (micro-climate), Glamis Castle, Bishops's Castle. That's it.... My new experiments are The Prince in morning sun and Carding Mill.

It's all about research and finding the rose that may have a higher probability of performing well in your garden. Then there's trial and error. I prefer the former but realize there are no absolutes.


Lynn

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Fri, Mar 21, 14 at 19:29


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Diane nobody said that. But one can neither say that Austins are all the same rose type. I'll give you that Austin have been more succesful than others in imitating, in some of their roses, the HP and Bourbon types, that Austin have been more singleminded and consistent about the kind of blooms their roses produce (even their colour range has been carefully selected to not deviate from that pastel 'romantic' look) and that the approach of all other well known hybridising houses in producing old 'type' of roses or 'Austin-like' if you wish has been quite haphazard. This, I agree, has been a DA achievement (or not, if one does not like the way most DA roses look).

Personally, I'm just hoping that someone somewhere is hybridizing new 'Teas' and 'Chinas' and 'Musks' and 'Noisettes' for us warm climate rosomaniacs giving some attention to our particular needs and our problems with PM rather than only paying attention to blackspot. I don't expect that this dream will come true, and I'm certain this cannot come from Europe, but I'm wondering why hybridizers in California do not, at least partially, follow that path. Yes, I know, commercial viability but still..
Nik

This post was edited by nikthegreek on Fri, Mar 21, 14 at 15:25


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Hi, Campanula. PDX is short for Portland , OR, like DFW is short for the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex in Texas. I think the nicknames resulted from airport labels. Carol


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Said what, Nik? I was referring to what Campanula said in the post above: ..."there is NO significant difference between Austins and a whole slew of similar 'nostalgic' roses...Romanticas, Renaissance, Generosa, as well as 'English' roses." I think there is a significant difference. Of course, that's my opinion, which I wish to express. You may have a differing one. Diane


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Teasing Georgia has morphed into the most spectacular rose in my garden. It started out as a long-caned non-bloomer, and has become a gigantic full bush covered with beautifully scented large flowers that do not burn in the subtropical sun. I don't spray it or fertilize it, and rarely water it. It gets micronutrient supplements 1x per year and hacked back 2-3 times per year.

I have 2 TGs- one on Fortuniana and one own-root. I can't see any difference between them.

If any other Austins perform in a similar fashion in my garden, I will certainly not be dismissing them.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Nikon vs Canon

Kind of like Austin vs not an Austin. A familiar battle that often gets heated with some one feeling picked on. But in the end it is what you are getting out of it is what is important.

Right now, I have one Austin I want and have had a spot held for it for a couple of years, Evelyn. I have a bunch of Austins and like them all pretty well. I wanted old fashioned style roses with fragrance. shrub form, and big enough for an almost 90 year to feel like she has a full rose garden. 5G Austins fit that bill.

I also have a bunch of antiques and polys that I am going up to be big enough to plant. They all have a place in my garden.

For what its worth, I have walked bunches of people through the garden and what rose do they chant to remember when they leave??

Don Juan, Don Juan, Don Juan, Don Juan (who by the way has 60 blooms open on him today)


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Kippy,

It is definitely a must-have in my garden.

Lynn


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Fragrant too…

Lynn


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Images taken of blooms yesterday.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I grew Austin "shrub"roses in FL., grafted onto fortuniana rootstock. They were big, healthy bushs that bloomed all year long. Loved the different colors, bloom style and the different scent's they produced. When I moved to N. GA., (Labor Day of 08) I brought 3 with me. Over the past few years I have added 7 more to my garden. They do very well for me. But what works in my garden might not work on the other side of town.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Ha, and just today my mother brought home a Darcey Bussell apparently...

I agree it is strange to isolate "Austin Roses" as opposed to the title "modern reproduction" that Rogue Valley groups them in, or even the pseudo class "English Shrub." Whatever name you want to give them, they are some of my mom's favorites despite me making it abundantly clear they are mostly not destined for success in this coastal mild climate. However, some have done fantastically here!

Ambridge Rose is great, Glamis Castle (I always wear gauntlets so it's no problem that it's thorny) is lovely, Crocus Rose is clean, Wildeve is lovely, and Abe Darby is her favorite. I think it's lovely save for the end of season rusting I came to expect after reading old posts. I defoliated it and now it's covered in buds and the foliage is beautiful again.

If you're willing to spend a bit more time in the garden -as many on this forum are- then it's definitely worth trying some Austins out. Jeri has mentioned many of the Noisettes, Chinas, and Teas that are supposed to be dynamite here simply fail for her no matter what. No class is without its bad eggs and Austins are no different. If my mom buys an Austin, I'll dig the hole for her and hope it's one of the good eggs. They are lovely in mixed borders I think.

Jay


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I forgot to add that Gertrude Jekyll is very healthy here and blooms more reliably for my mom than many people have reported experiencing.

Jay


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Lynn, those are gorgeous photos of your Don Juan. I've been trying to figure out where to put a DJ in my stuffed garden all year. You've convinced me of his excellence. Diane


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RE: No More Austins for Me

nanadoll,
I think that what Camps meant to say is that 'English roses' is really another name for the DA brand of modern roses just as all the rest of the brands she mentioned. She did not mean to say they are all the same typewise, because even within these brands there are significant differences, she meant to say that all of these are brands and not classes of roses.

I have a rose called Gartentraume (Gardendreams) by Tantau. For all intents and purposes if one doesn't know what it is it could pass for an Austin rose, flower and growth pattern and mix of old rose and citrus fragrance included. Even gets the octapus arms sometimes. It has been extremely healthy for me btw and I have five of them. It obviously performs well in a host of different climates judging from the HMF pics. Why isn't that an 'English' rose?

That's my interpretation of what Camps said and I agree. Hence my comment above.

Here's a link about the Tantau rose. I'm sure that if I had posted pics of my roses in this forum and asked for id I would have received lots of suggestions about which Austin rose this is. In reality the post would have been off topic and I should have posted it in the roses forum...
Nik

Here is a link that might be useful: Gartentraume

This post was edited by nikthegreek on Sat, Mar 22, 14 at 3:16


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RE: No More Austins for Me

  • Posted by Sow_what S. California: Inlan (My Page) on
    Sat, Mar 22, 14 at 7:09

Ingrid:

Are you trying to make a grown woman cry??? My goodness, where do you find all these breathtaking roses? You've GOT TO come back onto the "Pretty in Pink" thread and tell me about Gartentraume! (Sorry everyone; not trying to hijack the topic at hand.) I have an emotional connection to Austins that's not likely to be broken, but I HAVE TO try some of these other roses you're showing off, even though I have no place for them (does that sound like an addict, because I never even cared for roses THAT much before coming to this forum).

Ok, back on topic. I saw a bunch of Austins today at a clients garden. This garden is in southern California. Inland. Where the weather is more treacherous than my hot and dry. Where Austins are said to do poorly. Queen of Sweden (wow -- simply beautiful). Gertrude Jekyll (never one of my favorites, but strongly scented and lots of blooms on the shrub). Alnwick (so pretty, and delicious fragrance). Wedgewood (a delicate beauty). Sharifa Asma (lovely). There were many, many Austins. All looked healthy. All were covered in blooms. Most had delightful fragrances. Seeing them "in the flesh" reinforced my love for David Austin roses. Rouge Royal was there as well, and had a very pretty color. But it also had few blooms and diseased foliage. Don Juan, red and pink Simplicities, Black Baccarat, and a multitude of others were there and in bloom. I can understand why so many people are impressed with Don Juan -- it's extremely eye-catching. But it didn't touch my soul, and neither did most of the other roses in this garden. In fact, some of them were quite like fingernails scraping a chalkboard ... Which just goes to show that what we love is deeply personal. I find Austins heartbreakingly beautiful while Ingrid feels they're distressingly homogenous -- and that's OK. In fact, despite this major rift, I feel a kinship with Ingrid (who I've never met) because she has a generous heart and a love of beauty that I fully appreciate and share. We (most of us) ask each others opinions when looking for roses. But whose opinion is most important? YOURS.

How will these roses perform through the seasons? Who knows, but I'll be watching. And what blooms prolifically in one garden might turn out to be stingy in the next. I couldn't take pictures, but if anyone is interested, I will.

-jannike


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Hi Diane - I will cheerfully confess to my utter ignorance here is dissing a whole type of rose (those huge shrubs with large over-petalled blooms) which I know is the sine qua non of this forum, Anything with large blooms on big bushes just does not look right on a messy vegetable and fruit plot.....while if I continue the theme of small, often simple flowers, and loads of them, as a continuation of plum, cherry, strawberry, blackberry blossoms which festoon my plot, I can sneak in 100 roses which look entirely at home next to the broccoli..........and so I tend to lump these modern reproductions together somewhat. I am similarly ignorant about the minute differences in snowdrops, which cause galanthophiles I know to practically foam at the mouth.
In essence though, Nik is correct that I am merely pointing out the fact that Austins are essentially a brand and not a distinct class in the way that hybrid musks, for example are, and yet we never give other brands this specificity of being somehow distinct and special. Just a small point which annoys me since I consider marketing and advertising to be a bit pernicious and insidious (but that's just me, right?)
In truth, I am rather bewildered by much of the taxonomy of roses and tend to clump the whole lot of them as either single or double, single flowered or cluster flowered, large, very large or small, flowering on old wood or new wood - these are pretty much the only distinctions which I pay attention to, apart from health of course.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

After fifteen years growing experience in the Pacific Northwest I have concluded that the Austin roses are wholly unsuitable for this climate, due largely to their lack of Blackspot resistance. Many cultivars I have grown simply dwindled and died once I stopped spraying to control disease, and that really says something. Maybe newer selections are better in terms of disease resistance, but I'm so disenchanted with the English roses as a group that I no longer care to try any new ones to see. YMMV, as always.

Paul Barden


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Jay

You will love Darcey Bussel. My pair up the road in Santa Barbara are doing wonderfully. Consistently healthy green leaves and in bloom pretty much 365 days a year (a bloom or two not a bush full)

Mine are under a fruit tree for a break from mid day sun (BIG OLD fruit tree)

Mom did well

(FYI no spray)


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Kippy the hippy,
How do you like your Evelyn? I am thinking of getting one based on what I have read about her fragrance. I am in SE TX. I read that Evelyn and Crabtree base their tea rose scent off this rose. I also have a Don Juan that purchased several years ago and it's in a pot and hasn't grown much. I am going to plant it and see if it gets bigger. Does DJ need a trellis?


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RE: No More Austins for Me

jannike, it's actually Nik who has Gartentraume, although I wish I did. What a sumptuous rose with that "old rose" look.

In a garden where Austins do well they can look spectacular. Unfortunately my dry and ornery garden is not one of them, and hence the title. The story might be different even for me if I bought the newer ones (although I do have Young Lycidas) since they seem tougher and healthier.

I never cared much about roses either because I was only familiar with the modern one. That changed dramatically when I spotted a large specimen of Mutabilis at the UC Berkeley Botanical garden which was covered with multicolored blooms from top to bottom. They also had other old roses and it was the beginning of an obsession which has never waned.

Ingrid


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Kippy

I remembered you mentioning success with DB. That made me feel a bit better when she texted about another impulse Austin coming home. I do know it won some shrub award at the recent Biltmore Trial.

I just came over and planted it for her in the front. The only other pure red roses she had were Home Run and Lavaglut, so this will be a welcome color addition. Does it tend to stay crimson red, or can it appear mauve at all? It is indeed just COVERED in tons of buds. I see why she couldn't say no.

Jay


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Jay, I did this photo for some one last year, but this is Darcey Bussel with Belinda's Dream
Photo & Video Sharing by SmugMug

She get more pink than red tones here. I am off to take some photos in a few minutes so more soon.

BonCrow, I do not have Evelyn yet. I had stuff in the area I had saved to plant it. But in the next couple of weeks that stuff will be moved. I think I will take mom for a drive and visit Otto for a nice big one later in the season. I hear it has a wonderful scent, hope so cause it will be with in a couple of yards of the chicken coop....lol

It will be planted right by a fence where the neighbors over water their lawn regularly or I would not be planting this year with the water worries (they are on a well)


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Not sure why you told me about a Tantau roses link,Nik, since I'm a huge fan of them, and have been pushing several on these forums--Ascot, Augusta Luise, Astrid Grafin van Hardenberg, Bernstein-Rose and others. Evers is one of my favorite hybridizers. I love their line of roses with the old rose look, but they are unavailable in the U.S. and Canada. Palatine's owners say Tantau has no agent in the U.S. at present, so no Tantau roses beyond what is already here.
I am also perfectly aware that "English Roses" are a line of roses, not a separate recognized type such hybrid musk, Bourbon, etc. We poor little people in the hinterlands do have some knowledge of roses you see. Diane


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Boncrow, you asked about Evelyn, and I have five with one more coming in a few weeks. I like them very much. They are one of the best Austin roses in the heat, I think, and produce large, lovely apricot blooms with a beautiful scent. Diane


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Thanks Diane. Glad to hear it does well in the heat. I have been considering purchasing one.


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I should be in bed (I'm near the east coast)but I started to read this post and just had to finish to the end.
Very interesting ----
Florence


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RE: No More Austins for Me

nanadoll,
I'm very sorry if I seemed to bash you for something, I did not mean to. I really do not know where you live and even if I did I wouldn't know if that is considered hinterland by some, where people are assumed not to know much. You see I live many thousands of miles away in a foreign country. I'm sure you're a very knowledgable person in all things rosie and especially Tantau roses. I suggest though it might be easier for everybody if you took a more positive attitude. But, again, I apologize if I have offended you in some way which escapes me. I know better now so I'll make sure I won't address you in the future so all will be fine. I hope you enjoy your roses and your life.
Nik

This post was edited by nikthegreek on Sun, Mar 23, 14 at 2:31


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Actually, I'm not sure that there are really such sharp dividing lines between ANY class of rose! I tend to "shop around" a lot on Internet ,looking at different rose nurseries' sites (mainly European ones), and I am often struck by the differences used in classification! For example, I've seen Clair Matin classified several times as a hybrid musk. I think the term "English roses" is starting to creep into the world of rose growing,used to define a modern rose with a large," old-fashioned" -type bloom,but in a very, very general way. Also, I've seen roses that were NOT bred by Austin being classified among "Austin "roses (Ina an Mona comes to mind...)I've gotten to the point that I've begun to vastly prefer it when an on-line nursery displays their list alphabetically, or by simple classifications like "climbers" ,"shrubs" (even this can be iffy, since many a shrub can also be grown as a climber, etc, etc, etc...),just because there are many differences in opinion about how exactly certain roses should be classified. I guess Austin was one of the first to come up with this "new" type of rose and also produce many different ones all in a brief period of time,so this, combined with marketing, has pushed these roses into the limelight. I mean, I think Barni only has about 8 different "le Toscane" roses; I don't know how many Romanticas, etc. there are. Btw, I've gotten my first Romantica: a Climbing Yves Piaget (I hope it climbs...) One of the reasons I've avoided the Romanticas up until now is because I fear that as shrubs they have the Hybrid Tea style habit, which I do not like (this is the reason why I just can't fall in love with Barni's Accademia, which I also have...)


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I live in Tulsa, OK, and stopped spraying years ago. At that time, I discarded all roses that required spray. It was difficult, but I did not want to watch my garden dwindle away.

Cottage rose is the one Austin that I left. Just a couple of days ago, I transplanted it to the back of the garden, and hope it will b happy. Sharifa and Pat Austin were pretty in my garden with spray. Those two I miss, but not many of the others.

Even though we are in a 7 zone, our temperatures can run very high here. I really think that is why the older Austins were not happy.

I wonder if some newer varieties have been tested in the United States, and are more suited for our zone and hotter zones.

This has been an interesting post since I thought I was alone in my thoughts of unhappy Austins.

Sammy


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Hmmmm, I just wish to be totally clear on this - when I dislike a certain rose, or style or even general plant.......I have no dislike of the people who adore these plants. After all, plants are not political affiliations ( I would probably have a hard time being matey with a hard right Tory/Republican)

I loathe the way GW forums can get so snippy because someone's garden choices do not chime in with one's own. I am fully aware that very few people on this forum share my intense love of species roses, with their tiny fleeting blooms.....but not for a second would I assume that this antipathy has been translated into a dislike of ME (course, when it come down to my general truculance and chippy belligerence, that's a different thing).

So yep, I will say it again - no, sod it, I will shout it....AUSTIN ROSES ARE BORING, DULL, AND SICKLY TO MY EYES.....alongside with HTs, HPs, Centifolias, the horrid SDLM, Jaques Cartier, many gallicas, all roses with button eyes and any plant whatsoever which requires sprays and life-support.

Should I get my coat?


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Ahem, I still have 4 survivors left because I am
a. cheap
b.lazy
c.hiding out of sight
d. looks wonderful (not saying which one that is cos I really will cause dissent)


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I wish you'd speak up and tell us how you really feel, campanula.

(grin)

Kate


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I think I am done reading this particular post, people are getting over sensitive over difference of opinions and you know how the saying goes....... Opinions are like noses, everyone has one :). The bottom line is I joined this forum because I love roses and wanted to talk to other people who love roses and learn from their experiences.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Thank goodness all of our gardens do not have to match a set standard. A variety of opinions and tastes is what makes this forum interesting. Probably it rubs a few people the wrong way that a modern breeder has his roses listed with the antiques when that title probably could cover several different breeders as well.

But it all comes down to the right rose, in the right place for the right person.

I went and visited the local rose garden yesterday. They have a collection of Antiques-OGR-China-Tea-Noisette-H Musk-Older David Austins along with the giant beds of HT and Florabundas. Maybe the soil is worse or less amended. Or a watering system broke, planted too close together, pruned wrong or who knows. But it is really hit and miss with how some of those roses look. Almost all of the teas have a bad case of mildew and other than the noisettes and Mutibulis the OGR rose bed should be potted up and sent to where they can live happily (they look worse year after year of visiting them) I think it just shows what works one place might not in another.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I'm sorry if I cameacross rude. I had surgery a few days ago and am on pain meds.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

ah no, Boncrow-please plant a zillion Austins and revel in the pleasure they will give you - I hope you had a fabulous time at Chamblees, came home broke and happy and can now plant away to your heart's content, then sit back and admire your hard work. I certainly do have some definite likes and dislikes....of plants.....but, at bottom, because we are all gardeners, I truly believe we are kindred spirits....and therefore, much like family, can speak our minds knowing that the fundamentals of garden love, care and pleasure are all that really matter.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Well said and I agree! My trip will be delayed a few days but I will let you know what comes home with me and I am sure it won't be all be Austin's. I am going to plant what does best for my zone. I have truly enjoyed his forum.


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Yeah, to me the whole purpose of a forum is to share opinions, experiences,etc, and discuss things in a polite, respectful, "adult" manner! It's awfully infantile to take the attitude "if you don't like what I like, you're my enemy"...I don't much like it when people get snippy/over-sensitive/over-critical and argumentative (i.e., determined that their own opinion is the "right"one,and are bent to prove it); it seems to me to defeat the purpose of a forum...
Also, I can see why one might be tempted to dislike Austins,but for reasons that have nothing at all to do with the plants themselves. I seem to remember reading that Mr. Austin was not even trying to breed roses when he started out, but some other kind of plant, and stumbled apon his first roses by serendipity! This story might well cause a gung-ho rose lover to consider his company with a slightly jaundiced eye. And,it IS obnoxious that some rose companies will offer,amongst their other roses "regular" Austin roses at a reasonable price, but also plants that are " direct from David Austin Roses in England" (with the official DA label attatched), augmenting the price by about 10 euros !!! It's a shame that people will fall for that sort of stuff...
But I am bending over backwards trying to improve the soil around The Ingenious Mr Fairchild and James Galway to bloom properly,so you can see that I am not condemning the plants themselves...(at least not yet???)


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I do not think we are supposed to all like the same roses. I think a purpose of our forum is to discuss what grows easily for us. When the subject of "Earthkind roses" was first discussed, we were encouraged to use their standards, and report what could grow best for us.

In Oklahoma our summers are very hot. We can have weeks of 110 degrees, and not much rain. Yet we can have frigid winters. This was one of our worse. I do not spray, and can grow roses that are good for my weather. I prefer roses that bloom most of the time. Many Austins cycle too fast for me, and I cannot enjoy the blooms for that long. Yet Souvenir de la Malmaisson and Cramoisi Superieur plus many others love it here.

I think we should compare what grows well for us, and what does not. Bucks are great for some of us. I don't want a Buck that requires spray. It does not matter how well it blooms for someone who sprays, I won't grow the Bucks that get black spot.

I am rambling, and hoping this thread will go to 150, and has not closed yet.

Sammy


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Sammy,

I agree. We must work within the confines of our soil, climate, gardening philosophy and the aesthetics we are trying to achieve. Our gardens, in many ways, can reflect who we are as people, or who we want to be. It would be naive for us to think that in communicating about our gardens, those tid bits would not spill into the forum for better or worse. I believe it all " is what it is" and that is okay. People are entitled to be extremely opinionated, the absolute opposite and everything in between.....The good thing is, everyone is still sharing some actual information about roses in their climate wedged between all of that opinion, or a lack thereof.

Lynn

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Mon, Mar 24, 14 at 15:06


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I've been avoiding this thread. I don't care much for the love/hate Austin stuff. Lynn your post sounds like the final word. It is very important to hear about the differences in climate and what that means for what we grow. I agree that everyone has different tastes. Thank goodness they do.
I just love em all.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

LOL! I'm sorry, I'm so jealous of all of you, who have more than a three month frost-free season! I'm still trying to find a climber that blooms all summer...

When we move, I'll be so excited if I can get to a four or five month frost-free growing season. That will really be exciting!

I guess then, I might be a little more particular :)


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RE: No More Austins for Me

So Camps, which one is it that you have looks wonderful? If I don't have it, I may want to get it as I'm also none to generous with the groceries or water.

Melissa


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Perhaps my title was a bit too strongly worded, but if you read my opening post again I think you'll see that I wasn't damning Austins, and said I had not tried most of the new ones, but was relating my experience with them. I then asked how they had fared in your particular gardens. I didn't in any way condemn them, and I have a few I really appreciate. The jury is still out on Wild Edric, Young Lycidas, Pretty Jessica and Chaucer since they're still too young, but I wouldn't hesitate to praise any of them to high heaven if they turn out to be gems. Bishop's Castle, Sophy's Rose and Potter and Moore are here to stay if they continue to perform as well as they have.

I didn't mean to cause any ill feeling, and for me it's always about the roses, although I really enjoy the different personalities here, and the fact that everyone has his/her unique slant on the subject and their own personal favorites. That's why this forum is so informative and enjoyable.

Ingrid


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Ingrid, I've had Wild Edric since spring of 2012, and he keeps getting better and better. He has dozens and dozens of buds right now, with quite a few flowers already open. Just leafing out too, yet the flowers came first. He's grafted on multiflora, so he is unlikely to spread--unfortunately because I'd like more of him. Foliage is lovely year round, a nice mid to dark green. I do not fertilize WE and only water lightly. He gets only natural mulch from falling leaves of the huge ash tree he is near. His neighbor buddy is also a favorite of mine, this time a sage, Salvia namaensis, which is a South African native that likes the same conditions that WE favors. Namaensis is starting to bloom like crazy again after taking a very short breather mid-winter. Flowers are light blue and please my eye in combination with WE's blooms.

Pretty Jessica, well for me the verdict is in on her. She's been in my garden for 20+ years. Healthy enough I suppose, but she has never been a prolific bloomer. Maybe that's because I'm so stingy with the fertilizer. Has stayed quite small, probably about 1 1/2 feet tall. I'm too lazy to dig her up, so she has stayed. I'm about to add a groundcover ceanothus (Diamond Heights) next to her, and since ceanothus are nitrogen fixers, that may give Pretty Jessica a slight boost.

I have 2 other Austin rugosas besides Wild Edric. Snowden, which as the name implies, is pure snowy white. Very double blooms and with particularly dark green foliage. Own root. I do give this rose some fish emulsion as a snack.;) Mine is in a lot of shade and growing up into the light through a grapefruit tree.

The other rugosa is Mrs. Doreen Pike. Does well in partial shade. On the small side (not the most vigorous of growers) and has a bit of an awkward habit. Flowers are a really pretty silvery pink and look like ruffled petticoats when fully open. This one I also feed a little fish emulsion. Own root. Foliage is a nice mid green, with no disease.

Another Austin I have that I like quite well is Huntington Rose. It is another big one. Arching growth. Flowers are simply glorious. I saw it appropriately enough at the Huntington, and since it looked happy there I thought it might do well in my garden. I bought it from Pickering, so it is on multiflora. When it bloomed the first time, I liked it so much I moved it to a spot where I could see it better. Which is a really tough location though--smack in the root zone/up close to the trunk of the same gigantic ash tree WE is near (but further out from). Right now it has lots of buds, but nothing is open yet. I don't know yet how well it is going to rebloom since the move set it back some.

Young Lycidas is one I've been considering getting. I am going to see how he does for you Ingrid. I took note of what you said about Grandmother's Hat not performing so well in the heat of your garden, and when I got one, put her in shade. That seems to be working.

Melissa


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Melissa, thanks for your positive comments about Wild Edric. I have four so it would be a disappointment if it didn't do well. The foliage is marvelous, and it keeps putting out new leaves. So far I've only had one fragrant bloom, which was promptly eaten by a rodent overnight in spite of the thorny barrier I put around the rose. I'm very happy to know that this rose seems so tough, since three of the bands are planted in somewhat difficult situations. I had Mrs. Doreen Pike years ago and liked the flowers, but somehow the overall look didn't really please me and it seemed chlorotic.

I'm curious to see what Pretty Jessica will do this year since so far there hasn't been much action. I have the feeling that in its sunny spot the flowers may be very fleeting. If there also aren't many I may have to give her up, but I'll give her a few more years and enough fertilizer before I make a final decision. I have a feeling this rose does better in cool climates, since so many people praise her there.

Young Lycidas has five or six buds and not much in the way of leaves so far. I'll keep you updated on its performance, but I don't like the fact that quite a few people have said that theirs is an unruly sprawler. That won't work for me where it's planted, but time will tell.

Huntington Rose also appeals to me but I have no room, unless I'm forced to take out another rose. I'll keep it in mind since it's done so well for you.

I'm so glad your Grandmother's Hat is doing well. Even though the flowers frizzled quickly, it was probably the fastest-growing rose I've ever raised from a band, and I really like the foliage.

Ingrid


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Ingrid,

I am afraid you will not like Young Lycidas for your garden. I am loving mine, but she has a soft Santa Barbara daisy hedge and 3 other bigger roses on the other sides to rest long thin canes on. I just picked 3 softball sized intense pink blooms for the house, they were flopping on to the ground. They flopped over the edge of the vase, so I just put the vase at nose level so I could enjoy every time I walked by. I am enjoying the large "mop" of rose bush it makes. But I know that is not for everyone.

You know that photo everyone comes and asks what rose is this, the one with the pink rose poking through the white picket fence with a row of blue salvia at the base. I think YL would be perfect for that installation. They could be centered 4 feet apart and a couple of feet from the fence and that is the look they would give and be easy to move for painting.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Young Lycidas
Flopping on daisy hedge

Thin canes that will hold massive blooms
Young Lycidas


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Mrs. Doreen Pike today. This bloom is quite a bit darker than the last one that opened.

Melissa


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Boscobel looks promising. Planted a grafted bare root last fall. It has just opened its first bloom and has another 3 buds on. Huge flower for a small bare root, very fragrant kind of spicy - sweet, whifts. The flower looks a bit like Jubilee Celebration only a bit more salmony. No signs of powdery mildew yet, while lots of my roses currently have it (Lady Emma Hamilton, planted at the same time, is full of it..). No weak necks from this one. Too early to speak about octapus arms. I mentioned Jubilee Celebration, now this has been a pretty good rose in my garden for the past couple of years although, of course, quite larger than listed. No PM to speak of. Not exceptionally floriferous but I hope it gets better as it matures. Darn! I just broke a glass!
Nik

PS. Wiped all the mess up.. Just wanted to add that I can't smell any myrrh in Boscobel. I can smell that in Glamis Castle (dry and distant) and in Scepter'd Isle ( stronger, sweeter and more almondy). What DA defines as myrrh, smells like good old anise mixed with a bit of camphor to me.

Camps, I'm sure you would hate Boscobel lol lol

This post was edited by nikthegreek on Wed, Mar 26, 14 at 14:06


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RE: No More Austins for Me

OK, my best performing Austin may well come as something of a surprise....and I know full well that the term 'Octopus Arms' was invented with this one in mind but, for all that, Graham Thomas is still an oldie but goodie. Maybe because it (well actually they because they are a pair) take a prime place along a south-facing 6 foot high brick wall - they are remarkably good roses....although they have long ago reached the top of the wall and sway precariously into outer space, waving wildly between my garden and my neighbours on the other side. We had a bit of a plant war going on (she had a rampageous jasmine)....but as hers was facing north, my equally vigorous rose took the prize for subduing all attempts at controlling or taming. In truth, I don't even try - I just let it fling itself about like a massive standard (you call then tree roses). Nonetheless, even with my mean watering, negligent feeding and utter fail at pruning, GT makes a terrific rose with 2 very good flushes (I never deadhead either). I am particularly enamoured of its fresh foliage, lack of any disease at all and generous blooming habit.

I said it would be a bit of a shock!


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Kippy, the bloom of YL is gorgeous and I know it looks even more wonderful when fully open. The second picture looks like my canes with buds! I wonder if I can put some kind of girdle around it so the heads won't hit the ground.

Melissa, your rose looks exactly like my Mrs. Doreen Pike except that the leaves on mine weren't as green. The flower is beautiful, no doubt about it.

Thank you both for posting pictures.

Ingrid


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Ingrid, what about maybe a tomato cage?

I know you have said in the past you do not like that flopping look, I think my plant is flopping more this year than last because it was so mild the blooms are even bigger. Todays blooms are much wider than my hand.

But I take that flop as a good excuse to cut them and take inside.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I just love Queen of Sweden. It's my daughter's favorite rose. No disease. I grow it in a pot and overwinter it in the garage along with 48 other roses.

Here it is:
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/ingridstockton/March25/HPIM3023_zpsd32a2ece.jpg


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I was searching Austins and came across this forum. I am a newbie for english roses and just purchased my first from austin: Abraham Darby, A Shropshire Lad and Lady of Shalott. I hope I'm not disappointed. I used to be big into hybird teas, but have backed off over the years. If I fail, I guess it won't be the first money I've wasted on plants. :)


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Graham Thomas loved his namesake and that says something. It has the most beautiful enameled-colored flowers, like the wild Persian roses. My main beef with the Austins, GT, included, is that they are too large. In fact, to tell the truth, most rose bushes are probably way too large for my tiny plot, especially if I want to grow anything else. I guess the solution (for me) would be to grow them as climbers -- or keep them in pots.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Canadian Rose, you are so admirably determined--48 roses in the garage!! (I love rose fanatics.) Queen of Sweden is a beauty. Yours is especially lovely!

NewPassionforPlants, welcome to the forum! Keep us updated, please. (I have Abe Darby, too.)

Monarda, it's nice to hear you're another tiny plotter! Of necessity, we do become creative gardeners don't we? I'm starting to grow things as climbers, too, to maximize roses in my garden. I need to break up my driveway someday....

Carol


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I agree with Bart. Nurseries should list their roses alphabetically. (If they wish to also list them by class so much the better.) It is painful to keep trying to find where each class is located in the listings. Besides, as Bart pointed out, the class distinctions have blurred considerably. Since the first bourbon rose and the blending of the Asian roses with the European ones, there has been almost 300 years of blurring the lines. Even before that we have had roses that shade from one class to another, centifolia into damask, for example.

Cath


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Here's another Austin with weak necks. Just planted this bare root season, but leafed out and started blooming quickly. The flexible stems on Claire Austin make it so easy to pillar. I think the blooms are very pretty; they seem to have an inner glow. And the weeping blossoms should be an asset once the rose grows taller on the post.

This post was edited by Sow_what on Fri, Mar 28, 14 at 13:14


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Sow_what, seeing your beautiful picture with glimpses of what must surely be a lovely garden makes me want to see more. I don't want to be the only one posting garden shots. It gets lonely out there. Please post more pictures whenever you can. Your tulips are gorgeous!

Ingrid


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Ingrid:

I'll be happy to post pictures of some of my gardens. The one above is from the Garden of Lost Dreams, which will take about a year to complete, but I can share the process. I did sneak in a few pictures today at work. Lots and lots of roses there. Most blooming. A number diseased. But still quite a sight, overall. I'll put pictures up over the next few days. Flickr and Photobucket are full, so I'll have to do one pic per post -- sorry. I LOVE many of the Austins. Gertrude Jekyll is not one of my favorites, but it was covered in pretty blooms in a hot, crowded location.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

  • Posted by Sow_what S. California, Inlan (My Page) on
    Sat, Mar 29, 14 at 3:53

And here's another bloom from the same shrub (Gertrude Jekyll). Of the hundreds of roses there, my favorites were Queen of Sweden and The Alnwick Rose, though Wedgewood was also quite like spun silk -- gorgeous!


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RE: No More Austins for Me

This is a good thread! It's so important to hear peoples' actual experience with different roses in specific climates and situations. HMF is great, for what it is, but let's face it: the "Member Ratings" feature has rather limited value,since with growing roses it's "location, location ,location", in so many cases!
I don't think that the title of the thread is at all badly worded, Ingrid. Austins are extremely popular roses,for various reasons. Some of them, in some climates, are clearly excellent plants ,but let's face it, the company really has a fantastic marketing scheme going, and it's important that rose lovers help to" keep it real" It's really good to hear real-life stories of individual varieties in various climates to help in selection (that goes for all varieties of rose) because those of us who are true addicts often need to find reasons NOT to get a particular rose that looks so gorgeous in the close-up "cheesecake" photos that are the norm.
I must add that I sure wish that some other breeders would get their plants distributed more widely, however. I'd love to get a hold of Paul Barden's Siren's Keep, for example, but it's not available in Europe, according to HMF. I've been trying for several years now to get one of Kim's Annie Laurie McDowell, but I think only Bierkreek has it, and these last couple of years have not been able to propagate it successfully (my guess is due to the bad weather we've had ). However, even in the USA, from what I've read, it's hard to get hold of an ALMcD! But Austins are available all over the place, on both sides of the Atlantic...


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I hesitate to post, because I have only been really growing roses for about four years. I went heavily into the Austins because I loved their look (and the DH did too!) but I din't want one season bloomers. So far they have done really well for me. I am in a hot inland southern California area. A Shropshire Lad does not bloom often, but I think it's in the wrong spot - it gets at least 8 hours of hot afternoon sun a day in the afternoon. I read later that it liked afternoon shade in hot climates. Crown Princess Margareta also blooms more sporadically for the same reason. When Falstaff blooms it's beautiful. It's in my front, and more people stop to comment on that rose than any other. I have 10 Austins in the front, both older and newer; and ten in the back. Five are tree roses. DH prefers those as he can stuff more plants underneath! I have included a few pictures of Falstaff, Molineux, Carding Mill, Golden Celebration, and Evelyn. I hope it works.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Pictures didn't work. Here's Falstaff.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Moineux with Carding Mill


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Abraham Darby


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Port Sunlight


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Thank you all for all your postings of pictures and experiences. You all have beautiful gardens, and a lot of wisdom to share! I really enjoy reading about your experiences.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Sow what? Are you a designer? Rose garden volunteer? I didn't catch the connection to all your gardens. Your photos and roses are stunning!

Roseteacher, your roses look like David Austin ads! Are you a teacher of horticulture or another subject? I'm high school language arts and special ed. Carol

Ingrid, you are such a good sport! You've (it sounds like rightly) thrown up your hands with Austins in your soil and climate while all of us are chatting away about and posting photos of beloved Austins. Thank you again for the tours of your garden on your other posts. Your slice of paradise hasn't suffered in the least from lack of Austins!

Carol


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Beautiful photos, Sow_what and roseteacher. I can see why Falstaff would stop traffic; it's really gorgeous. So are your other Austins, which obviously love your garden. When they like a location they're really beautiful. I'm waiting for my Potter and Moore to open its buds; it's probably my favorite of the ones I have even though it's one of the very early ones.

Carol, you're a darling, thank you for your appreciation of my garden. There are more blooms every day now, and I realize again how much life color brings to a garden. I hope we all have a wonderful spring flush, with plenty of pictures from everyone!

Ingrid


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Carol, I'm a 3rd grade teacher, and a novice gardener. That was the only name I could think of that wasn't taken. Thank you for the comment on the roses. It's fun to share and to see everyone's gardens.

Ingrid, you have an amazing garden. I had already planted my garden when I discovered old roses. I'm hoping one day to sneak some of the smaller ones into the fruit tree section of our yard since they seem to need less care.

Sow_what, your roses are gorgeous. I can't wait to see more photos.

Lisa


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Carol, I'm a garden design imposter, and I do a lot of volunteer work, but not in rose gardens. My background is in medicine and interior design. I never gardened until a few years ago, and can't even identify most plants yet. So I feel blessed to be doing work (both gainfully and as a volunteer) that's so much fun. One of the perplexing challenges is that plants don't cooperate the way wood, fabric, metal, and glass do. Design a shed or a fence or an interior, and you can predict exactly how it will turn out.

But plants??? This forum has been extremely helpful, but can anyone fill me in on how to bend them to my will???

Thanks everyone, for the compliments on the roses, but many of them are not under my care. Here are two more that belong to a client.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

These are obviously not Austins. The one above is Pink Promise, and the one below is Black Baccara. Both pretty, and both blooming well. But they just don't move me the way Austin roses do.


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Sow what, ah ha! I thought I spotted design experience in your photos. Thanks for your background info. You are a great score as a gardener in both your vocational and volunteer sites! My sister is also an interior designer. I used to be a garden designer and your comments match my complaints. Couches, chairs and tables don't outgrow their spaces, fail to thrive during droughts, develop strange unsightly attacks of fungus, etc. I have some red to red-black HTs, too. Black Baccara, as you do. I also have Black Magic, Mr. Lincoln and Deep Secret. It's lovely getting to know you! Ingrid is a wonderful (forum post) hostess. :-) Carol


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I beg your pardon? Ingrid is unabashedly corrupt! I came here to find a couple of roses, and now I'm staying up nights, plotting how to cram dozens more roses where there is no place for them. All thanks to Ingrid and the rest of the rose mafia here. Showing off heart-stopping roses I never knew existed. I'm afraid I've become a hopeless addict, and I'm so grateful to Ingrid, Diane, you - Carol, and all the other derelicts who frequent this forum and show off the beauty they help create.

By the way, I suspected you were a designer. Here's today's buzz:


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RE: No More Austins for Me

I too am grateful for everyone on this forum, I have learned so much and have loved seeing everyone's beautiful roses. I did finally make it to Chamblees and came home with 2 DA, Evelyn and Golden celebration. I am very excited to watch them grow and I decided also on a SDLM and a pink Don Juan along with some cl pinkies. I have grown roses for years but didn't pay attention to names etc....just picked what was pretty to me. Now that I'm older I am interested in learning more about roses and this forum is the place to be for that! Everyone is so knowledgable and has great advice. I will admit I fell victim to the beautiful DA catalog, my husband calls it my rose porn :), but I am glad I was able to learn about other roses and open my mind to other choices. I do hope I love my DA's and am already thinking of other roses I want for next year. Thanks everyone for sharing all your pics and advice!


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RE: No More Austins for Me

Oh, thank you! Corrupting is just another word for enabling and I'm glad my cohorts and I have done such a stellar job of creating fellow rose maniacs. Unless you have terrible obstacles to overcome in terms of disease, soil or climate, it's one of the best things of all to enrich your life and thrill you over and over again. Not the least of the pleasures is meeting wonderful people here on the forum to share the joy (and commiserate over the inevitable pain at times), knowing that there is true understanding here, and caring, and lots of knowledge to share.

Ingrid


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RE: No More Austins for Me

The addiction has begun! Just FYI, there are also rose breeders on this site and they are developing/have developed wonderful new classics. Down in California, Kim Rupert has created wonderful cultivars. Up in my neck of the temperate rainforest, Paul Barden has accomplished the same. Many of these new roses combine the beauty of OGRs and species roses with improved disease resistance and exquisite colors, forms, and sepals (if you haven't discovered the joys of ruffled sepals, you are in for newfound joy) plus more shade tolerance and hardiness and fewer thorns, etc., etc., etc. Then there are all thoses rustled roses--collected antiques from old farm sites, cemeteries, yadda, yadda, yadda. On this forum, we're all doomed to suffer exposure to the sublime, I fear. :-) Carol


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