Hmmmm, I just wish to be totally clear on this - when I dislike a certain rose, or style or even general plant.......I have no dislike of the people who adore these plants. After all, plants are not political affiliations ( I would probably have a hard time being matey with a hard right Tory/Republican)

I loathe the way GW forums can get so snippy because someone's garden choices do not chime in with one's own. I am fully aware that very few people on this forum share my intense love of species roses, with their tiny fleeting blooms.....but not for a second would I assume that this antipathy has been translated into a dislike of ME (course, when it come down to my general truculance and chippy belligerence, that's a different thing).

So yep, I will say it again - no, sod it, I will shout it....AUSTIN ROSES ARE BORING, DULL, AND SICKLY TO MY EYES.....alongside with HTs, HPs, Centifolias, the horrid SDLM, Jaques Cartier, many gallicas, all roses with button eyes and any plant whatsoever which requires sprays and life-support.

Should I get my coat?

Ahem, I still have 4 survivors left because I am
a. cheap
b.lazy
c.hiding out of sight
d. looks wonderful (not saying which one that is cos I really will cause dissent)

I wish you'd speak up and tell us how you really feel, campanula.

(grin)

Kate

I think I am done reading this particular post, people are getting over sensitive over difference of opinions and you know how the saying goes....... Opinions are like noses, everyone has one :). The bottom line is I joined this forum because I love roses and wanted to talk to other people who love roses and learn from their experiences.

Thank goodness all of our gardens do not have to match a set standard. A variety of opinions and tastes is what makes this forum interesting. Probably it rubs a few people the wrong way that a modern breeder has his roses listed with the antiques when that title probably could cover several different breeders as well.

But it all comes down to the right rose, in the right place for the right person.

I went and visited the local rose garden yesterday. They have a collection of Antiques-OGR-China-Tea-Noisette-H Musk-Older David Austins along with the giant beds of HT and Florabundas. Maybe the soil is worse or less amended. Or a watering system broke, planted too close together, pruned wrong or who knows. But it is really hit and miss with how some of those roses look. Almost all of the teas have a bad case of mildew and other than the noisettes and Mutibulis the OGR rose bed should be potted up and sent to where they can live happily (they look worse year after year of visiting them) I think it just shows what works one place might not in another.

I'm sorry if I cameacross rude. I had surgery a few days ago and am on pain meds.

ah no, Boncrow-please plant a zillion Austins and revel in the pleasure they will give you - I hope you had a fabulous time at Chamblees, came home broke and happy and can now plant away to your heart's content, then sit back and admire your hard work. I certainly do have some definite likes and dislikes....of plants.....but, at bottom, because we are all gardeners, I truly believe we are kindred spirits....and therefore, much like family, can speak our minds knowing that the fundamentals of garden love, care and pleasure are all that really matter.

Well said and I agree! My trip will be delayed a few days but I will let you know what comes home with me and I am sure it won't be all be Austin's. I am going to plant what does best for my zone. I have truly enjoyed his forum.

Yeah, to me the whole purpose of a forum is to share opinions, experiences,etc, and discuss things in a polite, respectful, "adult" manner! It's awfully infantile to take the attitude "if you don't like what I like, you're my enemy"...I don't much like it when people get snippy/over-sensitive/over-critical and argumentative (i.e., determined that their own opinion is the "right"one,and are bent to prove it); it seems to me to defeat the purpose of a forum...
Also, I can see why one might be tempted to dislike Austins,but for reasons that have nothing at all to do with the plants themselves. I seem to remember reading that Mr. Austin was not even trying to breed roses when he started out, but some other kind of plant, and stumbled apon his first roses by serendipity! This story might well cause a gung-ho rose lover to consider his company with a slightly jaundiced eye. And,it IS obnoxious that some rose companies will offer,amongst their other roses "regular" Austin roses at a reasonable price, but also plants that are " direct from David Austin Roses in England" (with the official DA label attatched), augmenting the price by about 10 euros !!! It's a shame that people will fall for that sort of stuff...
But I am bending over backwards trying to improve the soil around The Ingenious Mr Fairchild and James Galway to bloom properly,so you can see that I am not condemning the plants themselves...(at least not yet???)

I do not think we are supposed to all like the same roses. I think a purpose of our forum is to discuss what grows easily for us. When the subject of "Earthkind roses" was first discussed, we were encouraged to use their standards, and report what could grow best for us.

In Oklahoma our summers are very hot. We can have weeks of 110 degrees, and not much rain. Yet we can have frigid winters. This was one of our worse. I do not spray, and can grow roses that are good for my weather. I prefer roses that bloom most of the time. Many Austins cycle too fast for me, and I cannot enjoy the blooms for that long. Yet Souvenir de la Malmaisson and Cramoisi Superieur plus many others love it here.

I think we should compare what grows well for us, and what does not. Bucks are great for some of us. I don't want a Buck that requires spray. It does not matter how well it blooms for someone who sprays, I won't grow the Bucks that get black spot.

I am rambling, and hoping this thread will go to 150, and has not closed yet.

Sammy

Sammy,

I agree. We must work within the confines of our soil, climate, gardening philosophy and the aesthetics we are trying to achieve. Our gardens, in many ways, can reflect who we are as people, or who we want to be. It would be naive for us to think that in communicating about our gardens, those tid bits would not spill into the forum for better or worse. I believe it all " is what it is" and that is okay. People are entitled to be extremely opinionated, the absolute opposite and everything in between.....The good thing is, everyone is still sharing some actual information about roses in their climate wedged between all of that opinion, or a lack thereof.

Lynn

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Mon, Mar 24, 14 at 15:06

I've been avoiding this thread. I don't care much for the love/hate Austin stuff. Lynn your post sounds like the final word. It is very important to hear about the differences in climate and what that means for what we grow. I agree that everyone has different tastes. Thank goodness they do.
I just love em all.

LOL! I'm sorry, I'm so jealous of all of you, who have more than a three month frost-free season! I'm still trying to find a climber that blooms all summer...

When we move, I'll be so excited if I can get to a four or five month frost-free growing season. That will really be exciting!

I guess then, I might be a little more particular :)

So Camps, which one is it that you have looks wonderful? If I don't have it, I may want to get it as I'm also none to generous with the groceries or water.

Melissa

Perhaps my title was a bit too strongly worded, but if you read my opening post again I think you'll see that I wasn't damning Austins, and said I had not tried most of the new ones, but was relating my experience with them. I then asked how they had fared in your particular gardens. I didn't in any way condemn them, and I have a few I really appreciate. The jury is still out on Wild Edric, Young Lycidas, Pretty Jessica and Chaucer since they're still too young, but I wouldn't hesitate to praise any of them to high heaven if they turn out to be gems. Bishop's Castle, Sophy's Rose and Potter and Moore are here to stay if they continue to perform as well as they have.

I didn't mean to cause any ill feeling, and for me it's always about the roses, although I really enjoy the different personalities here, and the fact that everyone has his/her unique slant on the subject and their own personal favorites. That's why this forum is so informative and enjoyable.

Ingrid

Ingrid, I've had Wild Edric since spring of 2012, and he keeps getting better and better. He has dozens and dozens of buds right now, with quite a few flowers already open. Just leafing out too, yet the flowers came first. He's grafted on multiflora, so he is unlikely to spread--unfortunately because I'd like more of him. Foliage is lovely year round, a nice mid to dark green. I do not fertilize WE and only water lightly. He gets only natural mulch from falling leaves of the huge ash tree he is near. His neighbor buddy is also a favorite of mine, this time a sage, Salvia namaensis, which is a South African native that likes the same conditions that WE favors. Namaensis is starting to bloom like crazy again after taking a very short breather mid-winter. Flowers are light blue and please my eye in combination with WE's blooms.

Pretty Jessica, well for me the verdict is in on her. She's been in my garden for 20+ years. Healthy enough I suppose, but she has never been a prolific bloomer. Maybe that's because I'm so stingy with the fertilizer. Has stayed quite small, probably about 1 1/2 feet tall. I'm too lazy to dig her up, so she has stayed. I'm about to add a groundcover ceanothus (Diamond Heights) next to her, and since ceanothus are nitrogen fixers, that may give Pretty Jessica a slight boost.

I have 2 other Austin rugosas besides Wild Edric. Snowden, which as the name implies, is pure snowy white. Very double blooms and with particularly dark green foliage. Own root. I do give this rose some fish emulsion as a snack.;) Mine is in a lot of shade and growing up into the light through a grapefruit tree.

The other rugosa is Mrs. Doreen Pike. Does well in partial shade. On the small side (not the most vigorous of growers) and has a bit of an awkward habit. Flowers are a really pretty silvery pink and look like ruffled petticoats when fully open. This one I also feed a little fish emulsion. Own root. Foliage is a nice mid green, with no disease.

Another Austin I have that I like quite well is Huntington Rose. It is another big one. Arching growth. Flowers are simply glorious. I saw it appropriately enough at the Huntington, and since it looked happy there I thought it might do well in my garden. I bought it from Pickering, so it is on multiflora. When it bloomed the first time, I liked it so much I moved it to a spot where I could see it better. Which is a really tough location though--smack in the root zone/up close to the trunk of the same gigantic ash tree WE is near (but further out from). Right now it has lots of buds, but nothing is open yet. I don't know yet how well it is going to rebloom since the move set it back some.

Young Lycidas is one I've been considering getting. I am going to see how he does for you Ingrid. I took note of what you said about Grandmother's Hat not performing so well in the heat of your garden, and when I got one, put her in shade. That seems to be...

Melissa, thanks for your positive comments about Wild Edric. I have four so it would be a disappointment if it didn't do well. The foliage is marvelous, and it keeps putting out new leaves. So far I've only had one fragrant bloom, which was promptly eaten by a rodent overnight in spite of the thorny barrier I put around the rose. I'm very happy to know that this rose seems so tough, since three of the bands are planted in somewhat difficult situations. I had Mrs. Doreen Pike years ago and liked the flowers, but somehow the overall look didn't really please me and it seemed chlorotic.

I'm curious to see what Pretty Jessica will do this year since so far there hasn't been much action. I have the feeling that in its sunny spot the flowers may be very fleeting. If there also aren't many I may have to give her up, but I'll give her a few more years and enough fertilizer before I make a final decision. I have a feeling this rose does better in cool climates, since so many people praise her there.

Young Lycidas has five or six buds and not much in the way of leaves so far. I'll keep you updated on its performance, but I don't like the fact that quite a few people have said that theirs is an unruly sprawler. That won't work for me where it's planted, but time will tell.

Huntington Rose also appeals to me but I have no room, unless I'm forced to take out another rose. I'll keep it in mind since it's done so well for you.

I'm so glad your Grandmother's Hat is doing well. Even though the flowers frizzled quickly, it was probably the fastest-growing rose I've ever raised from a band, and I really like the foliage.

Ingrid

Ingrid,

I am afraid you will not like Young Lycidas for your garden. I am loving mine, but she has a soft Santa Barbara daisy hedge and 3 other bigger roses on the other sides to rest long thin canes on. I just picked 3 softball sized intense pink blooms for the house, they were flopping on to the ground. They flopped over the edge of the vase, so I just put the vase at nose level so I could enjoy every time I walked by. I am enjoying the large "mop" of rose bush it makes. But I know that is not for everyone.

You know that photo everyone comes and asks what rose is this, the one with the pink rose poking through the white picket fence with a row of blue salvia at the base. I think YL would be perfect for that installation. They could be centered 4 feet apart and a couple of feet from the fence and that is the look they would give and be easy to move for painting.

{{gwi:319138}}
Flopping on daisy hedge

Thin canes that will hold massive blooms
{{gwi:319139}}

Mrs. Doreen Pike today. This bloom is quite a bit darker than the last one that opened.

Melissa

Boscobel looks promising. Planted a grafted bare root last fall. It has just opened its first bloom and has another 3 buds on. Huge flower for a small bare root, very fragrant kind of spicy - sweet, whifts. The flower looks a bit like Jubilee Celebration only a bit more salmony. No signs of powdery mildew yet, while lots of my roses currently have it (Lady Emma Hamilton, planted at the same time, is full of it..). No weak necks from this one. Too early to speak about octapus arms. I mentioned Jubilee Celebration, now this has been a pretty good rose in my garden for the past couple of years although, of course, quite larger than listed. No PM to speak of. Not exceptionally floriferous but I hope it gets better as it matures. Darn! I just broke a glass!
Nik

PS. Wiped all the mess up.. Just wanted to add that I can't smell any myrrh in Boscobel. I can smell that in Glamis Castle (dry and distant) and in Scepter'd Isle ( stronger, sweeter and more almondy). What DA defines as myrrh, smells like good old anise mixed with a bit of camphor to me.

Camps, I'm sure you would hate Boscobel lol lol

This post was edited by nikthegreek on Wed, Mar 26, 14 at 14:06

OK, my best performing Austin may well come as something of a surprise....and I know full well that the term 'Octopus Arms' was invented with this one in mind but, for all that, Graham Thomas is still an oldie but goodie. Maybe because it (well actually they because they are a pair) take a prime place along a south-facing 6 foot high brick wall - they are remarkably good roses....although they have long ago reached the top of the wall and sway precariously into outer space, waving wildly between my garden and my neighbours on the other side. We had a bit of a plant war going on (she had a rampageous jasmine)....but as hers was facing north, my equally vigorous rose took the prize for subduing all attempts at controlling or taming. In truth, I don't even try - I just let it fling itself about like a massive standard (you call then tree roses). Nonetheless, even with my mean watering, negligent feeding and utter fail at pruning, GT makes a terrific rose with 2 very good flushes (I never deadhead either). I am particularly enamoured of its fresh foliage, lack of any disease at all and generous blooming habit.

I said it would be a bit of a shock!

Kippy, the bloom of YL is gorgeous and I know it looks even more wonderful when fully open. The second picture looks like my canes with buds! I wonder if I can put some kind of girdle around it so the heads won't hit the ground.

Melissa, your rose looks exactly like my Mrs. Doreen Pike except that the leaves on mine weren't as green. The flower is beautiful, no doubt about it.

Thank you both for posting pictures.

Ingrid

Ingrid, what about maybe a tomato cage?

I know you have said in the past you do not like that flopping look, I think my plant is flopping more this year than last because it was so mild the blooms are even bigger. Todays blooms are much wider than my hand.

But I take that flop as a good excuse to cut them and take inside.

I just love Queen of Sweden. It's my daughter's favorite rose. No disease. I grow it in a pot and overwinter it in the garage along with 48 other roses.

Here it is:
http://i576.photobucket.com/albums/ss203/ingridstockton/March25/HPIM3023_zpsd32a2ece.jpg

I was searching Austins and came across this forum. I am a newbie for english roses and just purchased my first from austin: Abraham Darby, A Shropshire Lad and Lady of Shalott. I hope I'm not disappointed. I used to be big into hybird teas, but have backed off over the years. If I fail, I guess it won't be the first money I've wasted on plants. :)

Graham Thomas loved his namesake and that says something. It has the most beautiful enameled-colored flowers, like the wild Persian roses. My main beef with the Austins, GT, included, is that they are too large. In fact, to tell the truth, most rose bushes are probably way too large for my tiny plot, especially if I want to grow anything else. I guess the solution (for me) would be to grow them as climbers -- or keep them in pots.

Canadian Rose, you are so admirably determined--48 roses in the garage!! (I love rose fanatics.) Queen of Sweden is a beauty. Yours is especially lovely!

NewPassionforPlants, welcome to the forum! Keep us updated, please. (I have Abe Darby, too.)

Monarda, it's nice to hear you're another tiny plotter! Of necessity, we do become creative gardeners don't we? I'm starting to grow things as climbers, too, to maximize roses in my garden. I need to break up my driveway someday....

Carol

I agree with Bart. Nurseries should list their roses alphabetically. (If they wish to also list them by class so much the better.) It is painful to keep trying to find where each class is located in the listings. Besides, as Bart pointed out, the class distinctions have blurred considerably. Since the first bourbon rose and the blending of the Asian roses with the European ones, there has been almost 300 years of blurring the lines. Even before that we have had roses that shade from one class to another, centifolia into damask, for example.

Cath

Here's another Austin with weak necks. Just planted this bare root season, but leafed out and started blooming quickly. The flexible stems on Claire Austin make it so easy to pillar. I think the blooms are very pretty; they seem to have an inner glow. And the weeping blossoms should be an asset once the rose grows taller on the post.

This post was edited by Sow_what on Fri, Mar 28, 14 at 13:14

Sow_what, seeing your beautiful picture with glimpses of what must surely be a lovely garden makes me want to see more. I don't want to be the only one posting garden shots. It gets lonely out there. Please post more pictures whenever you can. Your tulips are gorgeous!

Ingrid

Ingrid:

I'll be happy to post pictures of some of my gardens. The one above is from the Garden of Lost Dreams, which will take about a year to complete, but I can share the process. I did sneak in a few pictures today at work. Lots and lots of roses there. Most blooming. A number diseased. But still quite a sight, overall. I'll put pictures up over the next few days. Flickr and Photobucket are full, so I'll have to do one pic per post -- sorry. I LOVE many of the Austins. Gertrude Jekyll is not one of my favorites, but it was covered in pretty blooms in a hot, crowded location.

And here's another bloom from the same shrub (Gertrude Jekyll). Of the hundreds of roses there, my favorites were Queen of Sweden and The Alnwick Rose, though Wedgewood was also quite like spun silk -- gorgeous!

This is a good thread! It's so important to hear peoples' actual experience with different roses in specific climates and situations. HMF is great, for what it is, but let's face it: the "Member Ratings" feature has rather limited value,since with growing roses it's "location, location ,location", in so many cases!
I don't think that the title of the thread is at all badly worded, Ingrid. Austins are extremely popular roses,for various reasons. Some of them, in some climates, are clearly excellent plants ,but let's face it, the company really has a fantastic marketing scheme going, and it's important that rose lovers help to" keep it real" It's really good to hear real-life stories of individual varieties in various climates to help in selection (that goes for all varieties of rose) because those of us who are true addicts often need to find reasons NOT to get a particular rose that looks so gorgeous in the close-up "cheesecake" photos that are the norm.
I must add that I sure wish that some other breeders would get their plants distributed more widely, however. I'd love to get a hold of Paul Barden's Siren's Keep, for example, but it's not available in Europe, according to HMF. I've been trying for several years now to get one of Kim's Annie Laurie McDowell, but I think only Bierkreek has it, and these last couple of years have not been able to propagate it successfully (my guess is due to the bad weather we've had ). However, even in the USA, from what I've read, it's hard to get hold of an ALMcD! But Austins are available all over the place, on both sides of the Atlantic...

I hesitate to post, because I have only been really growing roses for about four years. I went heavily into the Austins because I loved their look (and the DH did too!) but I din't want one season bloomers. So far they have done really well for me. I am in a hot inland southern California area. A Shropshire Lad does not bloom often, but I think it's in the wrong spot - it gets at least 8 hours of hot afternoon sun a day in the afternoon. I read later that it liked afternoon shade in hot climates. Crown Princess Margareta also blooms more sporadically for the same reason. When Falstaff blooms it's beautiful. It's in my front, and more people stop to comment on that rose than any other. I have 10 Austins in the front, both older and newer; and ten in the back. Five are tree roses. DH prefers those as he can stuff more plants underneath! I have included a few pictures of Falstaff, Molineux, Carding Mill, Golden Celebration, and Evelyn. I hope it works.

Moineux with Carding Mill

Abraham Darby

Port Sunlight

Thank you all for all your postings of pictures and experiences. You all have beautiful gardens, and a lot of wisdom to share! I really enjoy reading about your experiences.

Sow what? Are you a designer? Rose garden volunteer? I didn't catch the connection to all your gardens. Your photos and roses are stunning!

Roseteacher, your roses look like David Austin ads! Are you a teacher of horticulture or another subject? I'm high school language arts and special ed. Carol

Ingrid, you are such a good sport! You've (it sounds like rightly) thrown up your hands with Austins in your soil and climate while all of us are chatting away about and posting photos of beloved Austins. Thank you again for the tours of your garden on your other posts. Your slice of paradise hasn't suffered in the least from lack of Austins!

Carol

Beautiful photos, Sow_what and roseteacher. I can see why Falstaff would stop traffic; it's really gorgeous. So are your other Austins, which obviously love your garden. When they like a location they're really beautiful. I'm waiting for my Potter and Moore to open its buds; it's probably my favorite of the ones I have even though it's one of the very early ones.

Carol, you're a darling, thank you for your appreciation of my garden. There are more blooms every day now, and I realize again how much life color brings to a garden. I hope we all have a wonderful spring flush, with plenty of pictures from everyone!

Ingrid

Carol, I'm a 3rd grade teacher, and a novice gardener. That was the only name I could think of that wasn't taken. Thank you for the comment on the roses. It's fun to share and to see everyone's gardens.

Ingrid, you have an amazing garden. I had already planted my garden when I discovered old roses. I'm hoping one day to sneak some of the smaller ones into the fruit tree section of our yard since they seem to need less care.

Sow_what, your roses are gorgeous. I can't wait to see more photos.

Lisa

Carol, I'm a garden design imposter, and I do a lot of volunteer work, but not in rose gardens. My background is in medicine and interior design. I never gardened until a few years ago, and can't even identify most plants yet. So I feel blessed to be doing work (both gainfully and as a volunteer) that's so much fun. One of the perplexing challenges is that plants don't cooperate the way wood, fabric, metal, and glass do. Design a shed or a fence or an interior, and you can predict exactly how it will turn out.

But plants??? This forum has been extremely helpful, but can anyone fill me in on how to bend them to my will???

Thanks everyone, for the compliments on the roses, but many of them are not under my care. Here are two more that belong to a client.

These are obviously not Austins. The one above is Pink Promise, and the one below is Black Baccara. Both pretty, and both blooming well. But they just don't move me the way Austin roses do.

Sow what, ah ha! I thought I spotted design experience in your photos. Thanks for your background info. You are a great score as a gardener in both your vocational and volunteer sites! My sister is also an interior designer. I used to be a garden designer and your comments match my complaints. Couches, chairs and tables don't outgrow their spaces, fail to thrive during droughts, develop strange unsightly attacks of fungus, etc. I have some red to red-black HTs, too. Black Baccara, as you do. I also have Black Magic, Mr. Lincoln and Deep Secret. It's lovely getting to know you! Ingrid is a wonderful (forum post) hostess. :-) Carol

I beg your pardon? Ingrid is unabashedly corrupt! I came here to find a couple of roses, and now I'm staying up nights, plotting how to cram dozens more roses where there is no place for them. All thanks to Ingrid and the rest of the rose mafia here. Showing off heart-stopping roses I never knew existed. I'm afraid I've become a hopeless addict, and I'm so grateful to Ingrid, Diane, you - Carol, and all the other derelicts who frequent this forum and show off the beauty they help create.

By the way, I suspected you were a designer. Here's today's buzz:

I too am grateful for everyone on this forum, I have learned so much and have loved seeing everyone's beautiful roses. I did finally make it to Chamblees and came home with 2 DA, Evelyn and Golden celebration. I am very excited to watch them grow and I decided also on a SDLM and a pink Don Juan along with some cl pinkies. I have grown roses for years but didn't pay attention to names etc....just picked what was pretty to me. Now that I'm older I am interested in learning more about roses and this forum is the place to be for that! Everyone is so knowledgable and has great advice. I will admit I fell victim to the beautiful DA catalog, my husband calls it my rose porn :), but I am glad I was able to learn about other roses and open my mind to other choices. I do hope I love my DA's and am already thinking of other roses I want for next year. Thanks everyone for sharing all your pics and advice!

Oh, thank you! Corrupting is just another word for enabling and I'm glad my cohorts and I have done such a stellar job of creating fellow rose maniacs. Unless you have terrible obstacles to overcome in terms of disease, soil or climate, it's one of the best things of all to enrich your life and thrill you over and over again. Not the least of the pleasures is meeting wonderful people here on the forum to share the joy (and commiserate over the inevitable pain at times), knowing that there is true understanding here, and caring, and lots of knowledge to share.

Ingrid

The addiction has begun! Just FYI, there are also rose breeders on this site and they are developing/have developed wonderful new classics. Down in California, Kim Rupert has created wonderful cultivars. Up in my neck of the temperate rainforest, Paul Barden has accomplished the same. Many of these new roses combine the beauty of OGRs and species roses with improved disease resistance and exquisite colors, forms, and sepals (if you haven't discovered the joys of ruffled sepals, you are in for newfound joy) plus more shade tolerance and hardiness and fewer thorns, etc., etc., etc. Then there are all thoses rustled roses--collected antiques from old farm sites, cemeteries, yadda, yadda, yadda. On this forum, we're all doomed to suffer exposure to the sublime, I fear. :-) Carol