Is this an area where there were homes in the past?
Is it fragrant?

Are those the leaves? They look -- odd???

Jeri

Jeri -- yes, the leaves just above the flowers are the rose leaves (it's a branch hanging downward). I doubt that this was ever a residential area, but don't know that. So I wonder if this may be a seedling. Fragrance -- I was not tall enough to get at it to check, but no wafting fragrance at my level.

Looking closer -- the leaves rather remind me of the true 'Seven Sisters' -- rather fuzzy, some fringing of the stipules. I'm not suggesting that it is SS -- it clearly is not. But I do wonder if it's a multiflora hybrid that's similar. Also reminds me of 'Tausendschoen' (which it also is definitely not).

What an amazing place to find a mystery rose! It also does remind me of a multiflora hybrid that I found up at Clear Lake, CA. It bloomed once, with just those sort of very small, very double roses in large clusters, with the same kinds of leaves. The color on mine was a lighter pink starting out medium pink, and fading to white, so you got several colors at once, so that part is different.

The one picture showing a cluster with one dead rose in the middle is the same too - my rose clung on to its dead flowers forever - when I originally found it, the bush was almost obscured with huge bunches of very dead brown blooms.

Jackie

Kind of reminds me of my Otto (Gartendirektor Otto Linne), in the heat, the flowers are that color and leaves are similarly long, but perhaps wider than Otto, can't see finer detail.

Malcolm, perhaps the Honolulu RS is familiar with this cultivar?
http://www.honolulurosesociety.org/

Here is a link that might be useful: Here's a pic posted by Ingrid W. on HMF...

The flowers put me in mind of a rose I've seen only in pictures: Rosa multiflora 'Carnea. Interestingly enough, HMF list this rose as the parent of 'Seven Sisters'.

Here is a link that might be useful: HMF and Carnea

Yes, I think it must have some multiflora genetics in it. Sherri Berglund suggests a hybrid of R. setigera as well. Mike, I've seen multiflora Carnea at ARE, and agree that there is a strong similarity there. Growth habit is different though -- still, could be an ancestor. Since it's obviously not native, I should check into getting permitted to get a cutting, through the National Park service. Then we could grow it and study it

A Found Rose from Hawaii is a real treat -- and some sort of tie to Hawaii's colonial past, I should think. I hope they let you take cuttings. This looks like the beginning of an interesting mystery.

Jeri

Well, who knows when I'll get back there -- it seems to be not any more often then at 2-year intervals, and even that may not happen again. So I need to find someone there to collect them. I do know a couple people on the island, but it is not called the "big" island for nothing -- it's a good drive out there to the park from nearly anywhere else. So if any of y'all are making a visit and want to be the collector, I'll be happy to try to get it permitted for you! And in the mean time, I'll see if I can find another way of getting a sample.

Thanks for the pictures, Dr. Manners. That was fun to look at and now I know what a tamarind tree looks like. I use tamarind in Asian dishes and was tickled to see the tree it comes from.

In the recent past the USDA touted R. multiflora as a natural fencing that would be far better than barbed wire for fencing in/out livestock. In those days, import of plants wasn't closely monitered most places. If multiflora got into Hawaii, that's the sort of cross that might be expected.

I have a similar bird-sown seedling in one of my non-rose flower beds, except mine repeats readily.

True, Ann,
The interesting thing is, I saw 2 such plants in the park, and no other rose (of any kind) within 50 miles; no naturalized roses at all outside the park, that I noticed (and I think I would usually notice).

The tip of each leaflet, that curving out bit, reminds me of R. helenae. Perhaps it might be a descendant of it?
thank you for posting the photo, that is one interesting rose, especially its' foliage and cane and no armature in sight.

Luxrosa

Clearly a rambler, probably a Multiflora Rambler, might even by a Hybrid Setigera.

No answers yet on a certain ID, but thanks for all of your thoughts. An update: A former student, visiting the park, swiped cuttings for us, so it's now growing nicely in the FSC greenhouses (several rooted cuttings and several budded plants). I suppose that makes him a Federal criminal, but I doubt that the National Park folks would mind much -- it's certainly exotic -- no genus Rosa native to Hawaii, so they'd likely prefer for it to be eradicated from the park. Anyway, I'm keeping fingers crossed that it will be a good repeat-flowerer here as it is in Hawaii. Time will tell.

Lokelani rose is my guess - damask - official flower of Maui - only non - native official flower in Hawaii - at queen kapiolani garden by zoo -Oahu

Malcolm, could you give us the approximate elevation at which the rose was growing? And was this on 'the cool side' of the Volcano? People moving to the tropics learned that one side of a big volcano would get a steady supply of cool downdraft winds. I'm wondering if your rose is growing in a particularly benign microclimate.

Malcolm - what do you tink of Riku's guess? Here is a picture of 'Lokelani', which has evidently been in Hawaii since the 1800s.

Jackie

It does not have a Damask look to me. I really think it's a multiflora rambler of some sort. And yes, it's in quite a cool/cold location. I don't know the elevation, but I always need a jacket when I'm there.

That will be excellent if you have New rose. Unfortunately for me and my desire to see my pink damask in Hawaii (in my garden at home from Lynette many years ago) it wont happen as the queens rose garden seems to have been ripped out. nothing even looking like a rose mutated by heat. Plan to check out an academic garden here to see if I can find it - there is strong dislike of non-indigenous plants here so it maybe a don quixote task. I have time anybody know where on Oahu it may be?

My response to hearing there was a found rose in Hawaii couldn't be printed in a family newspaper ;).

I'm headed out to the Big Island in July - my parents are going at the end of March but I think the permitting process to take a cutting would probably take even longer than that. I'm absolutely willing (eager actually) to be the collector & transporter but I think there would need to be some very official help- not so much for the collection (it is a crime to take plants from a national park but sadly it's very easily and often done)- but to get permission to bring it back to the mainland. I wonder if the Global Botanical Garden in Kona would be willing/able to handle some of the legal aspects of getting the cutting back here.

As for the ID -- Malcom is that a green center or a bug? If it has a green "eye" I bet that would be much easier to track down.

NewGirlInNorCal: Yes, I believe it does show green pistils. I'm just going from the photos since, to date, it has not flowered in Florida. We do have it in our collection and have distributed it somewhat. It was collected (not by me), perhaps illegally, although it is by definition an "exotic invasive" in the national park, so if reported, would likely be purposely eradicated by park officials. There are no legal restrictions on transporting rose cuttings from Hawaii to the mainland.

As neurotic and restrictive (for good reason!) as California is, you'd best check with your local County Agricultural Agent for any issues bringing things into California from Hawaii. There may not be Federal restrictions, but there could well be State restrictions. We can't even move cutting grown roses from Los Angeles and Ventura Counties to Sacramento without State inspection for Brown Apple Moth, among other things. 44 years ago, we had to have a phytosanitary cert. from Florida to bring 300 orchids into California when my family moved from Miami to Los Angeles. It didn't matter. California ripped all pots apart, removing ALL potting media from EVERY plant then dumped them all into the boxes without any measures to insure they would be received alive. It might actually be easier to obtain a piece from Malcolm than bringing it back in your luggage. Kim

True, Kim. Our greenhouses are California-certified. And our original material of this plant was a budstick, so no roots, soil, etc.

Personally, if, as was recently reported in another thread, someone was fined "several hundred dollars" for smuggling in a rose from over seas, it's possible you might be subject to a fine for attempting to bring in cuttings, I'd rather see that money spent as a donation to a rose project such as Florida Southern's than go into the state coffers to be stupidly frivolously frittered away. I still think it would be safer, and a whole lot easier as well as LEGAL, to offer a donation to FSU for cuttings. Kim

Well found a rose [only rose] at University of Hawaii Oahu Lyon Arboretum in the spice garden south of the clove tree. it was unlabelled, untamed and was definitely not a damask - it looks more like the cherry coloured rose some people show as Lokelani. Little to no fragrance, few thorns, narrow near blade like leaves and definitely has a chaotic look to it. I would of called it a china because of the form and paucity of foliage. Have photos but since this iPad thing is new I will wait till back in zone3 blizzard country. Interesting to me is whomever the tech called at the university to follow up on my request if they had the rose knew exactly what I was looking for (used "damascea" without prompting) but was not aware of it in the arboretum or any rose. As an aside I vote china for my found rose because cacao grows near it even thought it is cooler compared to the Queens Garden at Waikiki.

I know of a couple of other China/China-like Hawaiian-found roses (of which I've been told). One is Green Rose. Another is a red China -- both said to be used for leis. Definite hearsay. :-) My mother was born in Honolulu, but I've never visited HA.

Jeri

Hi Jeri
I will email the photos In about a week. Let me know what you think the rose is. They are not the best as fate would have it I found the rose at near closing time but they should be good enough to determine if china influence or a modern volunteer.
Regards riku

Dr Manners,

If your around was that rose located at the Thurston lava tube? Going next week to the big island after Oahu this week where I am back to visit my Lyon Arboretum U of H feral rose to see if they keyed it yet. All activities in addition which the main reason which is to celebrate Six-O in Five-O.

R(rikuhelin)N
P.Geol P.Eng

riku, Yes, at the parking lot for Thurston lava tube. On the uphill side of the parking lot, near the path entrance (to the left of the path as I recall), it's hanging down through the brush. I've been there several times, and it seems always to be in flower, so should be pretty obvious, assuming they have not removed it as an invasive exotic.

BTW Rose Petals Nursery is growing and selling it. It propagates really easily. So no need to swipe one from the national park at this point.

Txs - Left shoulder temptations would have to be ignored as I am CIFA permitted/licensed for east Europe and only one specific country of import. Do not want to risk license and it would not be hardy in my climate ... Strictly look do not touch .... Now finding an original of the 4 chinas studs would be another conundrum of conscience.

Thanks again Riku

I hope you get to see it. Certainly a hybrid multiflora of some sort.

Unfortunately I could not find it yesterday - May have just missed it. Did note the sign about the elimination of introduced species on the path to the tube - sign example was a fuchsia they tore out that the park service decades ago had had planted to flower up the path to the tube.

Good you saved it. Tongue in check I was going to claim they ripped it out and offered it as a sacrifice to Peele. Reason being was the only rose I found at the park was on an offering lei at the outlook before the Jagger museum. It was made of weaved palm in which the linkage each had a rose bloom - it was a very double small true red that I though was a polyantha of some type. Photo latter to show. Warden told me when I inquired as to the meaning, that offerings get left at Kilauea to Peele and that she also grew roses on Hawaii. Me I high tailed it out of the park as I was starting to fell like a potential "Wicker Man" candidate :-))

Yes, if they pulled up the big Fuchsia, they likely got the rose as well. In a sense too bad, but at least it is rescued. And that really is an inappropriate place for it I suppose.

Hope you got to see some live lava flow. I've never seen it; just smoke from the craters. Did not have time to hike all the way out to the lava flows.

Thanks, could not stay for the glow due to poor night driving eyes. Since a once in a life opportunity to see an active strato I booked onto a chopper tour of flow and ocean end and all of them kea loa etc..