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Mon, Nov 19, 12 at 6:02
| OK, I apologise in advance for using the wrong forum....but Woodlands is a bit sloooooooooow (somewhat moribund, even). So, although I will include roses, our new woodland is taking all my attention and I am, as usual, inclined to ramble on at length to anyone who has the misfortune to come across a thread or engage me in conversation.
Going from around 400 square metres to (gasp) 6 acres is a huge leap into the dark. Right now, I have been pricking out next years seedlings (foxgloves, various hardy geraniums, primula, trollius and hellebores). Instead of the usual few dozen, I have pricked out several hundred. I often wonder how people with acreage manage and I guess I am about to see for myself, that it is indeed, a question of scale. Absolutely no point in growing the tiny perfect little alpine gems I adore.....and every reason to start a collection of HUGE perennials. Also, a whole class of plants (apart from roses) has been lacking in my gardening - shrubs! Easy to propagate, blossom, berries and even lovely foliage - I am guessing that a whole new adventure in flowering (and fragrant) shrubs awaits us. Even the humble honeysuckle can rampage through the woods (whereas in my garden, it is viciously trimmed into an almost topiaried shape). Time to start thinking BIG. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by mariannese 5b (My Page) on Mon, Nov 19, 12 at 6:32
| My woodland is minuscule compared to yours but I regret the day when I let honeysuckle and vinca loose in it. The honeysuckle doesn't bloom on the ground in shade but can still strangle small threes and shrubs and so becomes an absolutely useless menace. I have fought it successfully and will tackle the vinca next. The atragene clematis are much better behaved, like my Georg, Willy, Cyanea, Rosy O'Grady, Propertius, Columella and Albina Plena. I have mostly sorts bred by our Swedish clematis breeder Magnus Johnson but there are many more good varieties. Rosy O'Grady is beautifying my composting area with Cyanea behind. |
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- Posted by mariannese 5b (My Page) on Mon, Nov 19, 12 at 6:46
| It's trees, of course, and definitely more than three. (BTW, why do people so often spell it "definately"?) I take the opportunity to show my compost area from another angle with blue remontant Georg and a white spinosissima sown by birds (to keep on topic). The whole area is in full shade. |
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| Don't forget ornamental grasses. They come in all shapes and sizes and most are "late bloomers" with good fall colors and plumes. Also bulbs. Daffodils will repel underground critters. And yes, do be careful with invasive plants. They can invade six acres just as easily as 1/6 of an acre. The wild honeysuckle in my woods leapt across 15 feet to strangle a cherry tree. It was a subtle attack, from the top down; I didn't realize it was happening until it was almost too late. But do go for the giant rambler roses. |
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- Posted by mendocino_rose z8 N CA. (My Page) on Mon, Nov 19, 12 at 9:39
| I live on 38 acres. The garden is 3 acres. I can't imagine trying to quickly cover 6 acres. Planting in a woodland can be such fun. I love my shade garden. I think you could find a way to sort of infiltrate the woods a bit. I think of these sort of places as gardens of their own. |
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- Posted by melissa_thefarm NItaly (My Page) on Mon, Nov 19, 12 at 13:32
| I went from 1/6 acre to a proposed garden of about one hectare (2.4) acres--this seems to be about how large a garden we're going to end up with, if we make it to the finish line--so I know what you're talking about. Take your time, draw lot of plans, go out with stakes and tape, and you'll do it. But it can be slightly daunting at first. Fun, though! Enjoy yourself! Melissa |
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- Posted by kittymoonbeam 10 (My Page) on Mon, Nov 19, 12 at 22:52
| If I had that kind of space I would want to create a path and plant the edges of it and work outward from that. Or what about making a few small areas off the pathway here and there that have different themes? What about a beautiful garden surrounded by hedges to look out from your windows on. Daffodil meadows and paths and ponds and anything you want. If I had that kind of room, I'd want all kinds of fruit trees. |
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| It is a bit of a dance between planning agencies such as the Broads authorities, conservation groups and local interests, but in the UK, even owning land does not entitle us to do as we like on it. For example, I cannot build anything apart from 'temporary' dwellings such as sheds which have no foundations but can be dismantled and moved. We cannot fell trees either unless we have a felling licence (there are various exceptions - we can fell one tree every 3 months and do any amount of lopping, pollarding or coppicing). I know it causes a shudder in the US but actually, I think it is quite right that owning land (which is in short supply in our crowded little island) does not entitle the owners to do as they please...or, every woodland would have mansions built in it and every open field would be earmarked for developement while we, the public, who have got used to the 'right to roam' would be deprived of using our open spaces for pleasure and amenity. We went through centuries of enclosure acts (my grandparents were amongst the first 'trespassers' to openly demand the right to walk Kinder Scout in the Lake district - a famous victory for english socialists and ramblers) and we are all much more militant about who the land really belongs to. We fully intend for our woods to be open to the public. This will be a slow and stealthy regeneration of a rather dull poplar plantation into a much more diverse but still essentially wild, woodland. So, native trees but I will have a bit more latitude about bushes and perennials - not least because we have such a limited flora and fauna in Britain because of Ice Age glaciation and separation from the mainland Europe....and the question of what exactly is 'native' is enjoyably contentious. Even so, I feel I will have to reign in some of my wilder flights of fantasy....but hey, there is no hurry (no developers circling, no demands to grow as much food as possible - just a great woodsy playground. We mean to have fun. |
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- Posted by jacqueline3 9CA (My Page) on Tue, Nov 20, 12 at 10:36
| Even here, campanula, there is a movement to protect farm land from the developers. In my county there is a private non-profit which has been working for over 40 years to do that. What they do is buy the land from the family dairy farmers (most times otherwise developers would eventually buy it), then there is a contract where that farming family gets to use the land (I think in perpetuity), as long as they keep dairy farming on it. Our land and Mediterranean climate - it is naturally just rolling hills covered with grass and a few native oak trees - are most suited to dairy farming, and so that is what has happened historically. Now in some areas near the Coast small organic farms have emerged, and you can buy their lovely produce at farmers markets in almost every town. This is all, by the way, in the middle of a county that has 8-10 towns which are fairly densely populated, and many of which have grown together. We are also just starting to fight the fight about allowing open trails on private land where they have existed for over 100 years (which is a long time for us but not for you). That fight is still on-going, and usually still depends on the willingness of the landowner , although the county is trying to purchase some land on the hill ridges to accomodate trails. Your new experiment sounds entrancing - please do keep us apprised as to how it is going, and send pics! Jackie |
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| Thank you, Jacqueline, for your considered response. Owning land is causing some interesting cognitive dissonance for me since it is easy to be a good socialist when one has nothing. I am having to remind myself that we are not owners, just custodians and I truly hope that I can maintain a generous sharing outlook. I expect this will be tested over the coming years as the english people are, as a rule, devoted to the idea of the countryside. When our government proposed a massive sell-off of publicly owned woodland, protesters of every social class, age group, political persuasion and ethnicity were united in condemnation - resulting in a bloody nose for ministers who previously thought only of the potential profits. Of course, this is only the first round in what promises to be a hard-fought battle but I think the government were totally dumbstruck by the intense opposition to what they thought would be a mere formality. I am really glad to know Woody Guthrie's songs continue to resonate with the American people. 'This land is your land, this land is my land - From California, to New York Island - from the redwood forests, to the gulfstream waters - this land was made for you and me.' |
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- Posted by sherryocala 9A Florida (My Page) on Tue, Nov 20, 12 at 19:26
| Gee, Suzy, hate to burst your bubble, but we don't take that song literally to mean my property is your property and vice versa. I think you can substitute country for land and have the right idea. We can be a generous lot, but I think not so much when it comes to our homestead. Don't tread on me - and all that, you know. And many of us are armed. :)) Your woodland sounds very poetic and charming. My offerings propably would be useless to you given our climates, but there are some beautiful hydrangeas. I have one called 'Shooting Star' that would light up the edge of your woodland. Perhaps your version of my azaleas would be rhododendrons. How about ground orchids (Nun's Orchid) and ginger. Maybe a 'temporary' gingerbread house at the end of the path. Sherry |
Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...
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- Posted by jeannie2009 PNW 7/8 (My Page) on Wed, Nov 21, 12 at 8:59
| Oh Suzie you have begun such an important topic for discussion and I am thoroughly enjoying it. It's good to see the interesting viewpoints. I will share one of my experiences.I hope I am able to do this explanation justice. In 1976 Me and my family left NYC (my home from birth), purchased 2 acres of land in eastern Long Island, and built a modest home there. Quite rural. The property was covered with huge oak trees. You may well remember the battle across the pond. We called it the Revolutionary War. You folks probably called it the battle with the up-starts. Well the colonists needed food for their horses and a safe place to keep them on an almost nightly basis. So at the outskirts of meadows they tied sapplings together to form natural fencing. They did not undo their fencing when they moved on. Some of these survive to this day. They stand 80-100' tall and bout 20' wide. The trunks are quite gnarley and bent in uusual shapes. The property we purchased contained 4 of these magnificent monsters. By law we were not permitted to disturb the soil within 150' of one of those trees. So the house stood some 250' from the road. Quite expensive to run electric lines, etc. Annually the state of NY would send 2 arborists to visit the trees as they were more than 300 years old. Often fertilizer was applied and at one time the state did major battle with a huge population of Gypsy Moths. Under no circumstances could anyone cut, trim, or disturb any of these trees. Some 20 years ago Hurricane Gloria came whipping through. One of these magnificent brutes came down. The people who owned the property cut up the tree as it was across their driveway....when the state did their annual check..well they were fined $5000. So yes there is much needed government intervention on our side of the pond. Now that I've moved to a rural area of Washington, it amazes me at how little gov. control there is here. Boy this is a wordy post. Hope i've not bored anyone too much. Jeannie |
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| I think it is great that your (or any) country has measures to try to think of land in the big picture, with thoughts of ecological health. I see this new fad of TV program - people/businesses mining for gold or other minerals, and absolutely decimating hundreds / thousands of acres of woodlands .... for what? To rob the earth of pieces of rock that humans have determined has huge monitary value. It makes me so sick. I see this in not only our own country, but we are invading Africa and other countries as well for these rocks. And we wonder why the horrible climatic tragedies are so rapidly increasing. Anyways, sorry for the diversion. I live on 10 acres. Only a small portion is the "gardens", as this is supposed to be horse property, and horses eat anything I think is beautiful. I think if I were to try to give any advice, it would be - take your time. You don't have to do everything at once. Perhaps start a little small, and get your balance and bearings on your larger property. Over the next year or so, you'll start being more objective instead of feeling overwhelmed, and probably will make decisions you'll be happier with in the long run. Just one persons opinion. And congrats!!! |
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| Jeannie, your story of the Revolutionary War "tree-fences" was a fascinating one, and certainly something I'd never heard of. You remarked that you had moved to rural Washington state and noticed there was little government control of property. As your neighbor in Idaho, I might hazard a guess about one reason for this. Most of Idaho is owned by the Federal Government, and the state of Idaho owns a pretty good bit, too. Indeed,the government probably owns a heck of lot of Washington, also. Why bother the citizen with his puny acres when most of a state is already owned by the government? Coming from New York, you may not have thought of this one because in the East, most land is in private hands. Diane |
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- Posted by jeannie2009 PNW 7/8 (My Page) on Thu, Nov 22, 12 at 6:15
| Diane, Thank you for that input. You are correct that I had never thought of the impact of huge government land ownership. On the otherhand, since moving here I have been able to visit Yellowstone, Yosemite, The No. Cal Redwood forests, Red Rock country in Utah and Arizona and the Grand Canyon. For certain God smiled broadly when he made these areas. Happy T Day. Jeannie |
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| Jeannie, You are right about the West's eye popping national parks. In Idaho, we don't have a single national park, but our fed wilderness areas are the largest in the lower 48 (only Alaska has more). In these areas, in which several small Eastern states could fit, no permanent dwellings can be built, no roads or permanent trails allowed, but the public is allowed in. The rules for these spaces seem similar to Campanula's rules on her land in England. To borrow from her title...it's just a difference of scale. Happy T Day to everyone. Diane |
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- Posted by harborrose 8a-PNW (My Page) on Fri, Nov 23, 12 at 3:38
| Diane, Until you mentioned it and I went and found a map of federal land holdings in Idaho and Washington, I'd never realized the extent of the holdings. I do think that you're not quite comparing apples with apples, though, as those lands held by the federal government aren't open to any kind of sale, though, are they or habitation? It looks as though most of the federal holdings in Idaho are national forests. Here most of the Olympic Peninsula, very close to us, is either a national forest or a national park, with few roads through it, although it is open to hiking and back packing. Really wild lands. Campanula, |
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| Companula: Gee, too bad Woodie Gurthrie isn't around to respond to Sherry's post 'cause methinks his comments would be in resonance with the spirit of your remarks. There's an important verse in the lyrics of "This Land is Your Land" that is now almost always omitted, but was almost always included when Woodie himself sang the song. It comes late in the song and is, I think, best conveyed in Woodie's own voice (link below). And here's a word to the wise for you, Companula: On this side of the pond one walks on eggshells when uttering anything even remotely benign -- much less anything positive -- about socialism and socialists (& heaven help you if you have the temerity to admit being one!). In our own unique lexicon, concepts/terms like conservatism and socialism gradually have come to be starkly at odds with what they mean in the UK (and the rest of the world). For huge numbers of folks here, socialism = communism (literally), and conservatism is bound up with religious fundamentalism, the denial of science, nationalism masquerading as patriotism, and astonishingly fascistic approaches to socio-economic controls. It's our ersatz conservatives that are, as Sherry points out, armed to the teeth. Why anyone would find that chilling fact even remotely amusing is beyond me. |
Here is a link that might be useful: ALL of Woodies Words . . .
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- Posted by kittymoonbeam 10 (My Page) on Sat, Nov 24, 12 at 1:15
| Perhaps your garden will come to be a protected treasure one day. I love preserved gardens. They give animals a place to be and provide a vision of beauty that's individual and special to each gardener. As you said before, the trees there aren't native trees so why shouldn't you be free to create your paradise? I hope you can be able to have your dream. |
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- Posted by jacqueline3 9CA (My Page) on Sat, Nov 24, 12 at 14:13
| Campanula - what kinds of wild animals do or might (if it was a better habitat) inhabit your forrest? We only have 1/3rd of an acre, literally 3 blocks from the downtown of our 50,000 pop town, and we have dozens of different kinds of birds, skunks, possums, raccoons, squirrels, deer, and the occasional fox visit us (many of the birds and the squirrels live here permanently). Right now the winter visiting gold finches and Oregon juncos are here - we have a special feeder for the gold finches. Some of the males are showing their bright yellow and black breeding plumage - I love to watch them right outside of our bedroom window. Our garden has overgrown parts with large ancient bushes and lots of volunteer trees, as well as roses growing all over the house, and 4 birdbaths at different heights - the wild life seems to like it that way. I am curious about what kind of wild animals you might get - do you know? Jackie |
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