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The Irony of It - Fragrance

Posted by ingrid_vc Z10 SoCal (My Page) on
Wed, Nov 23, 11 at 12:00

Most of my roses are antiques but I've come to realize that it's the new ones that are the most fragrant. Granted, I have many teas, but also a good number of small Bourbons. At any rate my most fragrant ones are Charmian, Sister Elizabeth, Julio Yglesias and Belinda's Dream. Fortunately I have two oldies with a wonderful fragrance, La France and Coquette des Blanches. Two other very early hybrid teas are too young to bloom and I have great hopes for them in the fragrance department.

I'm sure the situation is very different for those of you who don't have teas as mainstays. Would you care to share the names of your very fragrant roses?

Ingrid


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

  • Posted by catspa NoCA Z9 Sunset 14 (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 23, 11 at 14:00

Francis Dubreuil, San Leandro Dark Red Hybrid Tea, Stanwell Perpetual, Jaune Desprez, Madame Alfred Carriere, Jacques Cartier, Rose du Roi, and Grandmother's Hat are the most fragrant in my yard.


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Hands down, my 1 OGR, Madame Hardy, is most fragrant. One massive flush perfumes the entire yard & bottom floor of our home.


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  • Posted by hoovb z9 Southern CA (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 23, 11 at 15:06

'Firefighter'. I adore that rose.


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

While I don't grow that many "antiques" anymore because I found them not things I wished to include in my breeding efforts, fragrance is not lacking on the hill. Grandmother's Hat is every bit as fragrant as the inherited Mary Rose, Sharifa Asma and the unidentified, truly awful red Austins out front. Joyberry, my Joycie X Basye's Blueberry seedling, has what Paul Barden proclaimed "the truest 'Old Rose' fragrance" he'd encountered in a modern rose. It IS wonderfully scented! Polly, 1926 HT, is intense, as are Velvet Fragrance, Secret's Out, Edith Schurr, my Annie Laurie McDowell, Secret Garden, and Too Cute. Robert Rippetoe created a seedling from my Carlin's Rhythm crossed with China Doll which rivals all the Austin's out front for scent. It's strong, sweet and long lasting. Purple Buttons possesses the same "Red Hots" scent its parent, Cardinal Hume, does. A little known rose from China, Ping Dong Yue Ji, has an amazingly long-lasting scent. Quite powerful, sweet, with strong citrus overtones. Blue for You and Ebb Tide are also very fragrant for me. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Carlin's Rhythm X China Doll


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"Grandmother's Hat,"
"Elisabeth's China,"
"Secret Garden Musk Climber,"
"Setzer Noisette,"
"Placerville White Noisette,"
"Roseville Noisette,"
'Aimee Vibert,'
'Jaune Desprez,'
'Reve d'Or,'
'Jeri Jennings,'
'Sombreuil' (Cl),
'Mel's Heritage,'
'Mel's Heritage'
'Fortuniana' and R. banksia banksia,
'Golden Celebration,'
"Cemetery Musk,"

I know there are others in the running, but those -- for me -- are tops.

Jeri


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Mme Gregoire Staechelin - sweet peas
Nahema - wildly fragrant
Lilianna Renaissance - old roses, face powder
Cardinal Hume - spicy
Jaques Cartier - although I dislike this rose, the fragrance means it stays
Zephirine Drouhin - naturally
Nastarana- bluebells
Wild Edric - an austin rugosa with a delicious scent


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

Felicite Parmentier
Mme Isaac Perrier
Deuil de Dr Reynaud
Yolande de Aragon
Cl American Beauty
Isphahan
Celeste
Konigin von Danemark
Arethusa


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

Frances Dubreuil
Mme Joseph Schwartz: my favorite scent
Evelyn: doesn't bloom all that much but when it does...
Sombreuil
Catherine Mermet
Souvenir de la Malmaison


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

My most fragrant roses are:

Devoniesis
Maggie
Buff Beauty
Melody Parfumee (my daughter's rose)
Abraham Darby
Sharifa Asma
Madame Pierre Euler
Mystic Beauty
Captain Dyel de Graville
Spice
Felicia
Clementina Carboneri
Grace Darling
Lyda Rose
Rose de Rescht
Lemon Spice
Annie Laurie McDowell

I have others that I think will be fragrant but since they are small, I can't really list them. Please note that not all of these are moderns although some of them certainly are. I do wish that more of the tea roses could be listed here. I love the teas--just wish they had a stronger fragrance.


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

Olga, I'm glad you listed Deuil de Dr. Reynaud as being very fragrant. I've had this rose since June but haven't had a single bloom, although the stems keep getting longer. I'm afraid it may be like Mme. Isaac Pereire, a huge grower with only intermittent bloom after the spring flush. I hope I'm wrong but am looking forward to spring blooms next year to experience the fragrance.

Ingrid


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

Neptune, Tiffany, Abraham Darby, and Heritage are my top four for scent. I also have Souvenir de la Malmaison and Belinda's Dream, as mentioned by others. They have a nice medium- medium/strong scent, but are not as highly scented in my garden as my top four.


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I am speaking on past experience, since I have only re-started a garden with roses this fall, but the following I remember as having particularly strong and wonderful scents:

Madame Planter
Common Moss
Belle de Crecy
Stanwell Perpetual
Jude the Obscure
Mlle. Cecile Brunner
Marie Pavie
Blush Noisette
Rosa eglanteria
Felicite Parmentier
Konigen von Danemark

While I may be forgetting some, these are some of the most fragrant roses I have ever had the pleasure of getting to know.


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Zephirine Drouhin...my mom has two and the fragrance is wonderful! They perfume the entire room, when she brings a few blooms into the house :)


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Sweet Surrender. I don't have this rose, but it's at a public garden I visit. I love it's fragrance. I'd grow it myself, but I'm afraid it might require more protection and spray than I'm willing to do. I think it's blooms are beautiful also.


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I've sought out some of the most fragrant roses in rosedom for my garden... here are a few of my favorites for fragrance...

Marchesa Boccella
Mme Ernst Calvat
Comte de Chambord
Eglantyne
The Alnwick Rose


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Two roses come to my mind as not being particularly fragrant when I put them right up to my nose, but from a little distance perfume all the air around them wonderfully and even some distance away, much as lilacs do. They are Marie Pavie and Rosa moschata. I love them both.

Many other roses in my garden are very fragrant, both modern and antique, but I will agree, not so much the teas.

Rosefolly


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I think it also depends on the size of the rose bush.

This year my 2nd year old Felicite Parmentier smells really nice. Yesterday, when I was dead-heading my claire austin rose, I could smell the scent of Felicite growing next to Claire. I love those tiny pink/white button-like blooms on Felicite and those blooms are still flowering (Spring in Aus) and last longer on the bush than my poor duchess de montebello whose buds had rotten away

Most of my other roses, I have to pluck my nose inside those blooms in order to smell them


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

Ingrid, about Dueil de Dr. Reynaud. Here it has a wonderful spring bloom then some intermittant blooms then again a beautiful fall flush. I think it is completely worthwhile. I would say this rose, Madame Isaac, Madame Ernst, and Oklahoma vie for the most fragrant in my garden.


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

Dr. Reynaud either has a couple of mutations floating around, or he enjoys more of a seasonal difference than we can give him here in the Los Angeles area. I haven't encountered one around here yet which flowered heavily its first flush and none have been what you could call "good repeaters". Pretty flowers but foliage which strongly suggests he's not completely suitable for our climate. Our extremes are to severe and humidity in most areas too high. Kim


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Pam and Kim, thank you for the info about Dr. Reynaud. Humidity I don't have and a cooler winter than in L.A at almost 2000 feet and more inland, but the heat may do him in. If so, I'll have a spot for one of the French tea roses from Vintage I'll be receiving in 2013. It's all good....

Ingrid


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

Deuil de Dr. Reynaud (although it hasn't bloomed since spring).
Blush Noisette, small flowers but powerful scent from even one bloom.

Belinda's Dream is fragrant but not swoony fragrant as Dr.dR but certainly rewards in many many more blooms than the Dr.


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

What's most fascinating to me is how our noses differ. Some of the roses mentioned as being very fragrant (Reve d'Or, Jaune Desprez, Fortuniana, Marie Pavie) don't have a very strong fragrance for me, while others (Abraham Darby, Belinda's Dream, Bishop's Castle and La France) are wonderful. I suppose it's a good thing or we'd all be growing the same roses.

Jeri, your photo is wonderful!

Ingrid


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

I guess it's not surprising that Austin roses usually make the short list for scent. My most fragrant this year has been Pretty Jessica. Chaucer is brand new, and the first gorgeous FAT bud is about to open. I wonder if that one will outdo PJ?

Strongly scented roses I've grown in the past:
Francis Dubreuil (Barcelona)
La France
Angel Face
Rose de Rescht

I agree with Rosefolly that sometimes a particular fragrance is stronger from a distance than it is up close. Souvenir de la Malmaison was like that for me.

There's a little cluster of buds on my new Marie Pavie that I'm looking forward to sniffing.


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

Louis Philippe
Mrs B R Cant
Rose de Rescht
Baronne Prevost
Marchesa Bocella
Hermosa
Duquesa
Clotilde Soupert
Jaune Desprez (I didn't know it was so fragrant so I never bothered to smell either of the two flowers he's had so far.)

Two that have never smelled before but did smell in the last two cool weeks are Le Vesuve and Mme Abel Chatenay. LV had a rather odd, non-sweet, even unappealing fragrance. I won't call it cat pee but it was very odd coming from a rose. I couldn't ID the scent. MAC had a definite tea scent and strong the other day. I was shocked. It must dissipate very quickly in warmer temps because I've never detected fragrance before.

Also White Maman Cochet has a very noticeable tea scent.

I'll have to pay better attention to Capitaine Dyel de Graville.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...


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Francis Dubreuil, Maggie, Marie Pavie, Spice, Midnight Blue, Ebb Tide, Duftendes Weisskirchen- very fragrant.


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I am surprised no one mentioned Rose de Rescht. Once at a nursery there was a row of them in pots and the fragrance was unforgettable. You could smell it just walking by. The flowers seemed larger than normal, too. The one in my garden has never been so fragrant, but there is always hope. Was it that they were young? That there were a lot of them? Right fertilizer? Stressed? Good culture? Humid atmosphere? Cool nights? Who can say? Gardening is an eternal enigma and its pleasures so ephemeral -- like life itself.


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Here's an interesting article I just read about scent sensitivity.

Here is a link that might be useful: Scientific American Article


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oops! I see two people did mention Rose de Rescht. My bad reading skills.


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

Amber Roses, thanks for the link to the very interesting article. I've heard something like that a number of times, but this was an excellent and coherent explanation. Scent is fascinating, don't you think?

I suspect that if researchers ever map the statistics on those olfatory blind spots, they will find that the tea rose scent is one of the more common ones.

Rosefolly


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I had to laugh at the title. Once I brought some flowers into the house--I think they were lilies--and I was enjoying the scent until someone came in and said, "It smells like cat pee." Of course, after that, all I could smell was cat pee.

Interesting that no one had a blind spot for citrus. I don't know anyone who doesn't like citrus scents or flavors.


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When polling people about their impressions concerning various scented foliage, the one which seemed to polarize people most was the scent of Lantana. The two most common responses were, "Oh, that's MINTY!" The other end of that spectrum was the one which agrees with my nose, "Ew, 'cat box'" It also seemed to follow bitter tasters. Your ability to taste bitterness is genetic. A middle school teacher friend used taste strips to demonstrate how the ability to taste bitterness runs in families, often with rather embarrassing results. Those of us who taste bitterness to the extreme seem to also associate the scent of Lantana with cat pee. Those who tasted it to lesser degrees, found it minty and refreshing. Definitely not a scientific observation, but one which, from observation, appeared fairly valid. Kim


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

  • Posted by seil z6 MI (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 26, 11 at 12:17

I only have three OGRs but Reine des Violettes has the best fragrance for me. Rose de Rescht is good too but not quite as strong. Poor Honorine de Brabant is a weak third.


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

I have a lot of very fragrant roses!;)

Felicite Parmentier, York and Lancaster, Jenny Duval, Madame William Paul, Rosa californica 'Los Berros', Rosa californica 'First Dawn', Rosa woodsii ultramontana, Madame Hardy, Paul Ricault, Baronne Prevost, Queen of Denmark, Portland from Glendora, Sidonie, Francois Premier, Comtesse O'Gorman, Stanwell Perpetual, Henry Nevard, Symphony (not!), Duchesse de Rohan, Clotilde Soupert, President Dutailly, Marchesa Boccella, Excellenz von Schubert, Paul's Himalayan Musk, Madame A. Labbey. Some of the preceding roses are even super wafters, and their glorious scent envelopes the garden when in bloom.

More modern ones: Chrysler Imperial, Happy Child, Gertrude Jekyll, and St. Elisabeth of Hungary.

Then I have some that have quite strong fragrance but many people may not like the fragrance, of linseed oil, so these roses usually don't get mentioned in discussions of fragrant roses. I like this different smell however which I associate with food. Those with it include Rosa alabukensis Tkatsch, Rosa foetida 'Persian Yellow' and another species/species seedling from Eurodesert with single white flowers and color-changing foliage.

Melissa

Here is a link that might be useful: Tessie's garden on HMF


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

I agree that it is no longer, if it ever were, generally true that OGRs are more fragrant than modern roses. Modern hybridizers have started concentrating on fragrance and disease resistance, so the newest roses can be very fragrant and/or disease resistant. And some OGRs just don't have much scent for whatever reason, or they have a pleasant but weak scent.

I have never yet been able to detect any fragrance on my Marie Pavie, which I've had for nearly a decade now. Maybe just because it never gets more than a couple feet tall ...

Most fragrant roses in my garden are a mix of new and old:

Oklahoma
Velvet Fragrance
Buff Beauty, but only while on the bush. She loses her fragrance once cut.
Memorial Day
Maria Shriver
Pope John Paul II
Blanche Moreaux
Konigen von Danemark
Mme Hardy
Abraham Darby
Tamora
Jadis
Aloha

Not all moss rose flowers have scent, but I love the scent on the mossing. Sometimes you get both flower and moss scent, sometimes just the mossing.


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

Melissa, what a fascinating list of roses! I've had four of the ones you mention in the past and Portland of Glendora had the strongest fragrance to my nose. In fact, the scent was so strong that it was overpowering in the house.

Ingrid


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

One of today's sweetest fragrances out back is from Jim Sproul's Eyeconic Lemonade, one of the new American bred Hybrid Hulthemias. You'll find it more in the west where black spot isn't as large an issue as the species does tend to be more susceptible to that infection, but if you request it elsewhere, I'm sure they'll order it. And, they're all own root. Thank you Conard Pyle! Kim

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

Striking, Kim, the colors are gorgeous. But Edmund's Roses which carries this describes it as having no fragrance at all. Since vendors typically exaggerate the scent of the roses they sell, this surprises me. Obviously your nose detects sweetness. I wonder if it is one of those fragrances which some of us get and some of us do not. Or perhaps the plant is simply variable.

Rosefolly

Here is a link that might be useful: Eyeconic Lemonade


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

One of the wonderful traits Jim has been able to secure in many of his Hulthemias is a very sweet fragrance. The foliage is wonderful, too, particularly compared to what it was.

I don't put a lot of faith in Edmunds site as there are many errors and inconsistencies. Even the most disease resistant roses show "not resistant" at the bottoms of the pages. Conard Pyle states on their site that it is very slight, too, but on my Encino hill, it is quite sweet and lasts very well when cut. It could be a personal sensitivity, but others I've offered them to, have commented on how sweet they are. Kim


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Good to know, Kim.


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My most fragrant roses are antiques and Austins. I am not able to grow no-spray modern HTs or teas for that matter due to blackspot issues in this area.

Some of my fragrant are:
1) Konigen von Danemark
2) Mme Ernst Calvat
3) Mme Victor Verdier
4) Sharifa Asma
5) Jude the Obscure
6) Abraham Darby
7) Rose de Resht
8) Marchessa Bocella
9) Felicite Parementier
10) Duchesse de Rohan
11) Zepherine Droughan


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

Ingrid, I don't have many roses that aren't fragrant because that's high on my desirability list. Here's how I'd rate my most fragrant:

Very Fragrant:
Madame Isaac Periere
Tiffany
Francis Dubreuil
SDLM
American Beauty (or Ulrich Brunner Fils�)
Radio Times
Sharifa Asma
Titanic
Pretty Jessica
Tranquility
Don Juan
Zephirine Drouhin

Nicely Fragrant:
Lamarque
Mrs. B R Cant
Duchesse de Brabant
Madame Joseph Schwartz
Spice

Sorta Fragrant:
Marie Pavie
Marie Daly
Cramoisi Superieur
Louis Philippe
Ducher
Belinda's Dream
Heritage

I haven't had Maggie long enough to tell about her. She was new this year and the hot summer was not kind to her. And Tradescant has been in my garden for only a few months so I'm really curious about him.

Kristin_flower, years ago I had Sweet Surrender and I'll never forget that fragrance. Nothing like it.

I'm guessing that some of you are rating how fragrant the rose is when you're in the vicinity of the bush and some are rating a rose by how fragrant it is to your nose close-up. Some of these don't waft well in the garden, but are nice close up or in a vase. Others like Zephirine Drouhin and the Marie sisters make you stop in your tracks as you walk around. I'm hoping to add more of these.


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

Hi Ingrid,

Yes, I like a wide variety of roses. One of my (many!) rosie weaknesses is fragrance, and it just got me again.;) I went to my local botanic garden's plant sale at the beginning of November. I had the plant list all printed out. It had multiple species roses on it (another weakness), but I told myself I didn't *need* any more roses. I went to the sale armed with a shopping list of other plants to buy. That was the plan at least. I kept repeating "you aren't buying any roses, you aren't buying any roses." All was going as planned until I made the mistake of turning down the aisle with the roses. I was doomed. The most intoxicating fragrance permeated the air. I had to look to see which rose was such a super wafter. It was Rosa californica 'First Dawn', the only rose blooming. The rationalization began! I knew I already had Rosa californica 'Los Berros'. First Dawn although the same species was a different selection, and it looked quite different. Los Berros has much bigger and darker flowers which open flat and are borne either singly or in a cluster of maybe 2 or 3. First Dawn is light pink and the single flowers are cup-shaped. It blooms in multi-flowered clusters. The perfume has an additional elusive element I don't smell in Los Berros (it too packs a wallop in the fragrance department).

I managed to resist the temptation to buy any of the other species roses as none of them were in bloom. However, I must admit that my resolve lasted less than a week before I was back and visited the garden's native plant nursery and brought home 2 pink/violet Rosa minutifolia (one upright growing, the other more lax) to add to the white-flowered one I already had.

Next to Rosa minutifolia in the nursery was R. woodsii ultramontana. It looked lonely, so naturally I had to bring it home! I'd previously seen this rose in all its glory at Eurodesert, and whenever I was in its vicinity, a very powerful, sweet perfume pervaded the air. No way to miss noticing this rose when it is blooming. It may be a once bloomer, but who cares!

Melissa


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Melissa, I'm intrigued that R. californica was blooming. I wasn't aware that there were named varieties, only that there was a single and a double. This is really interesting news, especially if some are rebloomers. I've always felt that, living in California, I SHOULD have a R. californica, especially since it's always been described in very positive terms. Thank you for this new information.

Ingrid

P.S. You're doing a GOOD thing by buying these roses and making sure they remain in existence. Guilt is not required or encouraged!


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Interesting lists from everyone. I think I'm starting to believe that scent article. It's so strange that people rank some roses I rank lower above some roses I rank higher. Take Don Juan. I'd rank it at medium strong and pleasant, but not above Heritage. My mother thinks I'm lying about it even having a scent at all. She can't smell anything from it. It is one of the roses I can detect the fancy undertones in though. I really can smell rasberries in it. I can also smell bananas in Queen Mary 2.


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

Believe it, amberroses. It's true. Walk around a large group of people with half a dozen roses of varying scent and ask each to rate them. You'll see for yourself. It mimics the differences between yours and your mother's noses.

Some early descriptions of Cardinal Hume's scent were "fresh mown hay", "frying fish, not stinky, the expensive, good kind", but to me, it is exactly the taste of Red Hots, very spicy, sweet, intense hot cinnamon. Very interesting. Kim


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RE: The Irony of It - Fragrance

  • Posted by seil z6 MI (My Page) on
    Thu, Dec 1, 11 at 18:48

Fragrance is totally subjective. Everyone's sense of smell is very different. Often a rose I think smells wonderful my brother can't smell at all, and vice versa. And that doesn't take into consideration likes and dislikes in fragrances. If it were simple there certainly wouldn't be hundreds of perfumes out there to choose from. Keeps it interesting though!


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